Justin Upton, now there's a prospect.

[VanceJergins]

3. Pie has had more than 22 ab's.

 

Actually, no, that's exactly how many ab's he's had this year in his sporadic playing time.

[KingCubsFan]

I don't know who's more reactionary about Felix Pie: the fans or the front office. He's struggled to adapt to every level of the minors, why did anyone think the majors would be different? If he played every day (which he won't), he'd probably be fine by June. At this rate, he'll be a Cincinnati Red within the next two years.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This guy is really going to be upset with Pie develops into a serviceable major leaguer which is something I'm not sure Samardzija will ever do.

[nilodnayr]

Justin Upton was the freaking #1 overall pick in one of the most stacked drafts in recent memory. I'd rather hope he would be better than Felix Pie at this point, considering he was drafted over the following players:

 

Alex Gordon

Jeff Clement

Ryan Zimmerman

Ryan Braun

Troy Tulowitzki

Cameron Maybin

Jay Bruce

Jacoby Ellsbury

Matt Garza

Colby Rasmus

 

And that was just in the first round!

 

What the heck is the point of this post? If you want to rip Pie, just come straight out and say it. Don't feed us this whole line about Justin Upton when there was no way in hell the Cubs were going to get him in the draft or through a trade.

 

Somewhere (ie extended ST) Mark Pawelek is crying.

[Guest]

This guy is really going to be upset with Pie develops into a serviceable major leaguer which is something I'm not sure Samardzija will ever do.

I actually like Samardzija's chances.

[Guest]

This guy is really going to be upset with Pie develops into a serviceable major leaguer which is something I'm not sure Samardzija will ever do.

 

Barring injury, I'd venture to guess there's a good chance Samardzija will be a serviceable major leaguer.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This guy is really going to be upset with Pie develops into a serviceable major leaguer which is something I'm not sure Samardzija will ever do.

 

Barring injury, I'd venture to guess there's a good chance Samardzija will be a serviceable major leaguer.

 

 

I hope both you and Tim are right, and his last start at AA is certainly encouraging. I still don't think he misses enough bats.

[Guest]

This guy is really going to be upset with Pie develops into a serviceable major leaguer which is something I'm not sure Samardzija will ever do.

 

Barring injury, I'd venture to guess there's a good chance Samardzija will be a serviceable major leaguer.

 

 

I hope both you and Tim are right, and his last start at AA is certainly encouraging. I still don't think he misses enough bats.

 

To be a "servicable" major leaguer?

[CubsGM]

Another home run? What a prospect!

[RedFlash]

oh, i think that much of the fan base is already fully convinced of this, regardless of how the cubs handle felix pie.

 

Are you talking about the casual Cub fan (ones who think Felix Pie is an alias for Corey Patterson) or the ACTUAL Cubs fans? The actual Cubs fans, I would agree, but there are, IMO, alot more casual fans, who don't how badly the Cubs have handle Pie, then there are the Cubs how actually know?

 

 

my problem with this type of thinking is that a lot of really good organizations are in "win now" mode and still manage to break players into the big leagues. dustin pedroia sucked ass for a few weeks at the beginning of last season, but he turned it around and won the AL RoY. Robinson Cano was lousy to start his career. the red sox and yankees are pretty much in perpetual "win now" mode.

 

I get this point, and I agree with it. Francona is basically BEGGING the Red Sox to move Coca Crisp, because he knows Ellsbury is the better CF. He's playing Crisp more the Ellsbury so that Crisp can add value for a possible trade. And the moment the Red Sox find a sucker for Crisp they will part with Crisp, and move the better player into CF.

 

But the biggest knock on your point is this.....2 World Champions in the last 4 yrs. BoSox no longer has the monkey on their back to WIN at all cost. Don't get wrong, Boston has no intentions are going another 90 yrs without winning a World Series title, but they have time to be patient with guys like Pedroia and Ellsbury, whereas the Cubs don't. And the Yankees are going through an organization thinking change. Cashman has been pushing for developing players from their system, to compensate the high price salaries on the Yankees. Neither team will back off from going after the title, but both teams don't have the pressure of trying to end a much maligned, and full RECOGNIZABLE curse. In fact, BoSox was basically in our position, the immediate yrs before the 04 Championship. What I mean is, there were desparate to end the curse, and win a world series, and get the monkey off their city and franchise backs. They had no time to developed young players, which means, they gave up talented young guys like Hanley Ramirez (Ramirez or Lugo at SS?), and Anibal Sanchez to reach their goals. I get your point, that Boston and NY are in yrly win-mode, but there pressure is different, in that, it's a professional rivalry/jealousy thing between the two. They want to "one up" each other, moreso than having to win one to end a curse.

 

And if Piniella wants that "Curse killing" World Championship, it is my fear they will sacrifice the future to get it, which means, it wouldn't surprise me if they do decide to trade Felix.

 

see, smart organizations understand that it's worth sacrificing a small handful of wins if at the end of the day, you manufacture a good player who will contribute to your team's success for several years. if the cubs play felix pie all year and he is a couple of wins worse than, say, reed johnson, i'm not going to be pissed if we miss the playoffs by a game. if the cubs help pie reach his PECOTA projections (roughly .290/.350/.490) then he'll be one of the better CF in the league and give you excellent defense at a relatively cheap price for the next few years. unfortunately, the mindset of piniella seems to be that they have to do everything possible to win every single game, and if reed johnson gives the cubs a better chance to win today's game than felix pie, then reed johnson is starting that game. regardless of whether pie would be successful or not, this type mindset - favoring short-term gains over long-term development - is a foolish one, and the cubs need to rid themselves of it.

 

I agree. But the Cubs are definately feeling the heat. Having Felix Pie developed in Chicago, instead of someplace else, would be big. I just wish Piniella would put Pie back in CF, and let his talent surface. If Pie is as a "talented" as Piniella, Oneiri and Hendry have claimed for yrs, then his talent should surface. But sitting, almost acknowledges that maybe the Cubs have been trying to sell something that wasn't there. Just play Pie, let him prove he is ML caliber or not.

[Outshined_One]

In fact, BoSox was basically in our position, the immediate yrs before the 04 Championship. What I mean is, there were desparate to end the curse, and win a world series, and get the monkey off their city and franchise backs. They had no time to developed young players, which means, they gave up talented young guys like Hanley Ramirez (Ramirez or Lugo at SS?), and Anibal Sanchez to reach their goals.

 

One problem with this point of view. They traded those guys for Josh Beckett in 2005 (along with Harvey Garcia and Jesus Delgado), the year after they won the World Series. In 2004, Ramirez mostly split time between A+ and AA and had zero chance of being called up to the team in 2004. Anibal Sanchez pitched 76 innings in short season ball in 2004. There was even less of a chance to see him get called up to the majors that season than Ramirez.

[RedFlash]

In fact, BoSox was basically in our position, the immediate yrs before the 04 Championship. What I mean is, there were desparate to end the curse, and win a world series, and get the monkey off their city and franchise backs. They had no time to developed young players, which means, they gave up talented young guys like Hanley Ramirez (Ramirez or Lugo at SS?), and Anibal Sanchez to reach their goals.

 

One problem with this point of view. They traded those guys for Josh Beckett in 2005 (along with Harvey Garcia and Jesus Delgado), the year after they won the World Series. In 2004, Ramirez mostly split time between A+ and AA and had zero chance of being called up to the team in 2004. Anibal Sanchez pitched 76 innings in short season ball in 2004. There was even less of a chance to see him get called up to the majors that season than Ramirez.

 

Shh.............don't blow holes in arguement. How dare ya? :D

 

My point is this, for yrs, the Red Sox made deals that were considered risky, and desparate. Picking up pre MVP candidate David Ortiz. Letting Mo Vaughn and Roger Clemens leave. Looking back, it was great decisions to let them leave, but 20/20 at the time, it was considered risky, and they took heat.

 

That's where the Cubs are....at the "risky and desparate" stage. I don't want them to trade Pie, but if they are not going to play him, let him go.

[SouthSideRyan]

In fact, BoSox was basically in our position, the immediate yrs before the 04 Championship. What I mean is, there were desparate to end the curse, and win a world series, and get the monkey off their city and franchise backs. They had no time to developed young players, which means, they gave up talented young guys like Hanley Ramirez (Ramirez or Lugo at SS?), and Anibal Sanchez to reach their goals.

 

One problem with this point of view. They traded those guys for Josh Beckett in 2005 (along with Harvey Garcia and Jesus Delgado), the year after they won the World Series. In 2004, Ramirez mostly split time between A+ and AA and had zero chance of being called up to the team in 2004. Anibal Sanchez pitched 76 innings in short season ball in 2004. There was even less of a chance to see him get called up to the majors that season than Ramirez.

 

Shh.............don't blow holes in arguement. How dare ya? :D

 

My point is this, for yrs, the Red Sox made deals that were considered risky, and desparate. Picking up pre MVP candidate David Ortiz. Letting Mo Vaughn and Roger Clemens leave. Looking back, it was great decisions to let them leave, but 20/20 at the time, it was considered risky, and they took heat.

 

That's where the Cubs are....at the "risky and desparate" stage. I don't want them to trade Pie, but if they are not going to play him, let him go.

 

In what universe was letting Clemense leave after '96 a good move? Picking up David Ortiz for 2M was a risky move in the same way the Cubs picking up Dempster on his injury rehab was a risky move. None of those examples have anything to do with Pie.

 

Letting some free agents leave because they thought they were entering their decline phase? Signing a low risk high reward contract? How are these examples of a team that desperately wants a world series?

[RedFlash]

 

In what universe was letting Clemense leave after '96 a good move? Picking up David Ortiz for 2M was a risky move in the same way the Cubs picking up Dempster on his injury rehab was a risky move. None of those examples have anything to do with Pie.

 

Letting some free agents leave because they thought they were entering their decline phase? Signing a low risk high reward contract? How are these examples of a team that desperately wants a world series?

 

How about the fact that both Vaughn and Clemens was as popular in Boston, as KW and Sosa is/was?

 

Picking up Ortiz, eventually lead Boston to move Shea "Idiot" Hillenbrand, which open up the DH for Ortiz, and boom.......And you're comparing Ortiz to Dempster? [-X .

 

Fact is...letting Clemens and Vaughn were risks, and the connection to Pie, is the Cubs not allowing Pie to play to his ability is highly risky.

[sharkfan50]

3. Pie has had more than 22 ab's.

 

Actually, no, that's exactly how many ab's he's had this year in his sporadic playing time.

 

Actually, It's been 200 ab's for Felix. Since his ab's look virtually the same to me this year as they did last year, they're all the same to me. He hasn't changed a thing. Sure, Upton struggled last year at the age of 19 but unlike Pie, he's already progressed this season from last season. Again, it's not fair to Felix to compare the two, because Justin will be a very good player and an All Star in this league for many years and Felix won't and it's not because he doesn't get "regular" ab's.

 

Just my opinion.

[Jehrico]

I'll respond to everyone in one post.

1. I'm a Cub fan, hence the "sharkfan50" username, genius (Yeah I know he don's the number 28 with the Smokies, but when I made up this account it was ST and he was 50 on the ST roster). But I'm in the minority of Cub fans and that I can admit when a prospect I once raved about, won't amount to much and I can let go. To think of the players we could've gotten back for Felix at one time. What a waste.

2. I totally love the sarcasm, seriously, I do. So NSBB.

3. Pie has had more than 22 ab's.

4. Yeah, obviously Upton is one of if not the best prospects in the entire game and it isn't fair to compare Felix to him, but my point is, Pie's learning curve is corey pattersonesque and I just don't see him making the proper adjustments, where as Upton, you can see him making adjustments from ab to ab. Like a true prospect and one with a very bright future in this game.

5. I'm just trying to be nice and to ask Cub fans to stop making excuses for Felix because they've been hyping him up for the last 4 years and it's healthy to to admit that Felix will never be the player they've envisioned and hoped for.

6. If you keep making excuses for Felix, you're only hurting yourself and this team with those unhealthy thoughts. He is hurting this team right now as he still is not ready. Right now we have a better player in Johnson and someone who needs to play 5 games a week until the Cubs call up Murton.

7. I seriously wanted Felix to be a part of this team and to contribute to this team, but I've accepted that he isn't ready and he most likely never will be.But for sure, he is not ready right now. I care farrrr more about keeping this train rolling and making it to the Playoffs and the World Series than I am about the "maturity" of an individual player who is hurting the team at the same time.

8. The point of this thread, was to point out that Felix Pie has shown me squat and Cub fans need to start accepting that he isn't the prospect or future All Star that we once thought or think and that he actually will not be anything but an Angel Pagan type player and will be a journeyman. So let's stop making excuses for him and when he get's sent back down, to embrace it. Because it'll be the right thing for this team and to not cry" he never got a fair chance bwahahaaha. Lou piniella is so mean and loves vets etrc etc etc." which will be the cry here and already has been.

9. The Cubs haven't lost a game in which Reed has started. Yet there's still Cub fans whining that Felix should start and get more ab's. Good thing the majority of Cub fans (not just on this board) aren't Managing the Cubs and Lou, who wants nothing more to do than win and cares about the overall success of this years team, is the Manager.

I don't know which was the more ridiculous post, this one or your first one. First, I don't ever recall anyone trying to compare Pie and Upton. 2nd, Upton was a known quantity and was taken at the top of the draft. Pie was signed off of the streets of the DR. Upton was raised to be a ball player his whole life. Pie never played any organized ball and never had any instruction until after we signed him. He was shining shoes before that. All things said, Pie has some holes in his game, that's true. His learning curve is not "pattersonesque." He's had far less experience playing this game than perhaps everyone else in the league. Probably every other (or at least over 99% of them) player in this league has been playing baseball since they were kids. Not many guys start really learning the game when they're 17, so you can't compare his learning curve to anyone elses. No one ever expected ARod type numbers out of him. That would be ridiculous. It's also ridiculous to cut him off now and say he's reached his limit. The only times he's struggled were his first season at AAA, and at this level. He adjusted and killed AAA the next year. Give the kid a little time to get more comfortable in this league, then enjoy watching the former shoe-shiner succeed while having fun at this level. There's absolutely no reason to hate on Felix Pie.

 

And if you think the difference between Pie and Reed Johnson is going to have any long term impact on our winning this year, you're delusional. That has to be the dumbest statement I've read on this board this month. As a matter of fact, one of those games that Johnson started we won only because Pie came in and got the game winning hit in the 15th.

The point of my post is I really don't care if Pie hasn't shown you squat. That's why you thankfully have no say in the matter.

[sharkfan50]

This guy is really going to be upset with Pie develops into a serviceable major leaguer which is something I'm not sure Samardzija will ever do.

 

Jeff has only touched his potential and it'd be unwise of you to think that at worst, he'll only be a "serviceable" Major Leaguer. You can chalk it up to Jeff's football background but he's the hardest working Minor Leaguer out there, including position players. Combine his work ethic and mental make up with his raw abilities and I wouldn't put anything past Jeff. I wouldn't ride him off because of his K/9.

 

This is a big year for Jeff no doubt.

[sharkfan50]

I'll respond to everyone in one post.

1. I'm a Cub fan, hence the "sharkfan50" username, genius (Yeah I know he don's the number 28 with the Smokies, but when I made up this account it was ST and he was 50 on the ST roster). But I'm in the minority of Cub fans and that I can admit when a prospect I once raved about, won't amount to much and I can let go. To think of the players we could've gotten back for Felix at one time. What a waste.

2. I totally love the sarcasm, seriously, I do. So NSBB.

3. Pie has had more than 22 ab's.

4. Yeah, obviously Upton is one of if not the best prospects in the entire game and it isn't fair to compare Felix to him, but my point is, Pie's learning curve is corey pattersonesque and I just don't see him making the proper adjustments, where as Upton, you can see him making adjustments from ab to ab. Like a true prospect and one with a very bright future in this game.

5. I'm just trying to be nice and to ask Cub fans to stop making excuses for Felix because they've been hyping him up for the last 4 years and it's healthy to to admit that Felix will never be the player they've envisioned and hoped for.

6. If you keep making excuses for Felix, you're only hurting yourself and this team with those unhealthy thoughts. He is hurting this team right now as he still is not ready. Right now we have a better player in Johnson and someone who needs to play 5 games a week until the Cubs call up Murton.

7. I seriously wanted Felix to be a part of this team and to contribute to this team, but I've accepted that he isn't ready and he most likely never will be.But for sure, he is not ready right now. I care farrrr more about keeping this train rolling and making it to the Playoffs and the World Series than I am about the "maturity" of an individual player who is hurting the team at the same time.

8. The point of this thread, was to point out that Felix Pie has shown me squat and Cub fans need to start accepting that he isn't the prospect or future All Star that we once thought or think and that he actually will not be anything but an Angel Pagan type player and will be a journeyman. So let's stop making excuses for him and when he get's sent back down, to embrace it. Because it'll be the right thing for this team and to not cry" he never got a fair chance bwahahaaha. Lou piniella is so mean and loves vets etrc etc etc." which will be the cry here and already has been.

9. The Cubs haven't lost a game in which Reed has started. Yet there's still Cub fans whining that Felix should start and get more ab's. Good thing the majority of Cub fans (not just on this board) aren't Managing the Cubs and Lou, who wants nothing more to do than win and cares about the overall success of this years team, is the Manager.

I don't know which was the more ridiculous post, this one or your first one. First, I don't ever recall anyone trying to compare Pie and Upton. 2nd, Upton was a known quantity and was taken at the top of the draft. Pie was signed off of the streets of the DR. Upton was raised to be a ball player his whole life. Pie never played any organized ball and never had any instruction until after we signed him. He was shining shoes before that. All things said, Pie has some holes in his game, that's true. His learning curve is not "pattersonesque." He's had far less experience playing this game than perhaps everyone else in the league. Probably every other (or at least over 99% of them) player in this league has been playing baseball since they were kids. Not many guys start really learning the game when they're 17, so you can't compare his learning curve to anyone elses. No one ever expected ARod type numbers out of him. That would be ridiculous. It's also ridiculous to cut him off now and say he's reached his limit. The only times he's struggled were his first season at AAA, and at this level. He adjusted and killed AAA the next year. Give the kid a little time to get more comfortable in this league, then enjoy watching the former shoe-shiner succeed while having fun at this level. There's absolutely no reason to hate on Felix Pie.

 

And if you think the difference between Pie and Reed Johnson is going to have any long term impact on our winning this year, you're delusional. That has to be the dumbest statement I've read on this board this month. As a matter of fact, one of those games that Johnson started we won only because Pie came in and got the game winning hit in the 15th.

The point of my post is I really don't care if Pie hasn't shown you squat. That's why you thankfully have no say in the matter.

 

Thanks for the response. Great that everyone has different opinions on a varying array of topics, isn't it?

 

I'll talk to you at the end of the season about Pie.

 

Oh and no I don't have a say in the matter. It's silly that you even considered that. This is a message board, right? Where people exchange opinions, correct?

 

No I don't have a say in the matter and since you're under the opinion that Pie won't be going anywhere anytime soon, I'll make you a gentlemans bet that the "powers that be", are leaning more and more in my direction of thinking that Pie should be sent down to AAA. I'll bet you that Felix is sent down to Iowa by middle of May.

[sharkfan50]

Another home run? What a prospect!

 

Since this is NSBB and the most popular form of expression is sarcasm, I take it you're being sarcastic. I guess it's better than the 2nd most popular form of opinion which would be using personal attacks.

 

Even though your response doesn't deserve one, I will anyway and yeah, he hit another HR and yeah, what a prospect is right.

 

The growth he's shown from last season at the age of 19 to this season at 20, at the Major League level is freakish and by the end of the year, he could be in very rare company.

 

As far as Felix' progression from last season to this season, I'll settle for a swinging strikeout that is actually a strike :wave:

[EhDubya]

Shark-

 

I thought your post was legit. Don't let the junior high jackals get you down. They have just discovered sarcasm, it will take them much longer to discover that Pie isn't going to be what we all had planned on him being.

[sneakypower]

I'll bet you that Felix is sent down to Iowa by middle of May.

I fully agree, but it won't be for any legitimate reason. He's being railroaded by the coaching staff; Lou is determined to destroy this kid's confidence.

[Derwood]

This guy is really going to be upset with Pie develops into a serviceable major leaguer which is something I'm not sure Samardzija will ever do.

 

Jeff has only touched his potential and it'd be unwise of you to think that at worst, he'll only be a "serviceable" Major Leaguer. You can chalk it up to Jeff's football background but he's the hardest working Minor Leaguer out there, including position players. Combine his work ethic and mental make up with his raw abilities and I wouldn't put anything past Jeff. I wouldn't ride him off because of his K/9.

 

This is a big year for Jeff no doubt.

 

sharkfan50 = Jeff Smardzija

[Guest]

I'll bet you that Felix is sent down to Iowa by middle of May.

I fully agree, but it won't be for any legitimate reason. He's being railroaded by the coaching staff; Lou is determined to destroy this kid's confidence.

Why is everything so black and white with everyone? Why is it that Pie is either garbage or is being railroaded? There are about a million other explanations that all fit the publicly available facts.

[Roast]

Justin Upton, 20 year old OF for the Arizona Diamondbacks. Hitting .368 on the year and hit his 4th HR tonight on this young season was sitting on Roast's fantasy team bench until today because he's dumb and forgot he even had him. Way to waste good talent, roast.

Fix'd

[sneakypower]

i'd love to hear some of them. the kid couldn't buy 2 PAs in a game last season because of Jacque Jones and now it is being plainly expressed that Lou trusts Reed Johnson more, even vs. right handers. Reed Johnson, who was just cut 2 weeks ago.