Khalil Greene

[SABR Gamer]

Why can't we just flippin be wise and get Greene and Burnett and call it an off season. I really would like to hang on to Pie, and the more I think about Brian Roberts and realize that the Cubs could get Greene for maybe even less, the more I despise the idea of getting Roberts. Hendry is an idiot if he is even thinking about parting with Pie to get Roberts. Who are the replacement options? Lofton? Byrd? Fuld? Crisp? I don't know about all of you, but I believe that there is a great chance Pie performs as well as any of those options, and a good chance that he greatly out performs them. With those guys, you basically know what your going to get, it's decent, but nothing great, and think about the defense you lose. With Pie you have a guy who, even if he doesn't perform to his potential, could match their production, and you KNOW you will get outstanding defense, and then a decent chance that he could become a very good offensive player.

 

On the Greene part, we would be replacing our by far worst position with a guy who smashes balls outside of the pitchers heaven that he plays half of his games at, and will make an already outstanding defensive team pretty much ridiculous on defense. Think about that team defensively, Fonzie is above average, Pie is a stud, Fukudome is supposed to be near GG quality, Lee is Lee, Rammy is above average, and Soto is above average, the only weak spot would be EP at 2B, but I think he would be adequate and he would really be the only guy who was in the lineup for his hitting alone. Add Greene and I can't think of any other team in baseball as good on D as the Cubs. Plus the dramatic difference of Greene in the lineup instead of Theriot would have a big impact, and then Theriot could play "Super-Sub" where I think he could make a decent contribution.

 

Then you add Burnett and the pitching staff, that was the second best in the NL last year, would be improved. My only question then is who plays second base? Although, regardless of who is playing second I like the team better then than now.

 

TRADE 1

CUBS GET: Khalil Greene

PADRES GET: Matt Murton, Ronny Cedeno, Sean Marshall, Kevin Hart

 

TRADE 2:

CUBS GET: A.J. Burnett

BLUE JAYS GET: Mark DeRosa, Ryan Dempster, Sean Gallagher

 

 

The Cubs would then be:

 

1. Afonso Soriano (7)

2. Felix Pie (8)*

3. Derrek Lee (3)

4. Aramis Ramirez (5)

5. Kosuke Fukudome (9)

6. Khalil Greene (6)

7. Goevany Soto (2)

8. Eric Patterson (4)**

 

Mighty fine lineup right there, every guy could be a "tough out" and every single one can put up solid HR numbers.

 

B. Ryan Theriot (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

B. Daryle Ward (3, 7, 9)

B. Sam Fuld (7, 8, 9)

B. Jake Fox (2, 3, 7, 9)

B. Henry Blanco (2, 3)

 

1. Carlos Zambrano

2. Ted Lilly

3. A.J. Burnett

4. Rich Hill

5. Jon Lieber

 

LR. Jason Marquis/Neal Cotts

MR. Jose Ascanio

MR. Scott Eyre

MR. Michael Wuertz

SU. Bob Howry

SU. Carlos Marmol

CL. Kerry Wood

 

 

Then if you want, make some sort of deal for a good 2B using Colvin+______(Veal?) (I guess Roberts, but because of Angelos and MacPhail I'd rather just deal with another team, where we might be able to get a better player for the same or less as those knuckle heads want for Roberts) and send Patt down, or use him as the 4th out fielder.

 

I think that would could win it all with this bunch. I'd be happy if this happened.

 

*You could put him 8th, but I kept fighting with myself not to put him there. I know people say that "protection" is meaningless, and I would say that is probably an accurate statement, but confidence isn't meaningless (it's actually pretty huge, mental approach is a large part of hitting), and I would have more confidence batting between Lee and Soriano than next to the pitcher, and if Felix can live up to his potential he would be a very good fit in the two hole. That .410 OBP he posted in IWA last year would be mighty fine in front of LeeRamFuk, even if it drops 50 points because of the level change, it would still be .360 :D.

 

**Swap with Pie if you prefer, and I know that it's unlikely a guy with 8 ML AB would start, but I'd still take him over the alternative.

 

I don't think Tyler will ever be an impact player in MLB. I don't know about his mental makeup but if he doesn't have thick skin, I think he's going to have a rough time with the fans complaining about his K's (Yeah people are idiots because a K is almost a better out in certain situations, but they would rather see guys use that last swing to slap the ball to the SS or 2B than trying to actually drive it). He just has bad plate discipline and never takes walks, plus there is no room for him in Chicago with Pie hopefully becoming a fixture in CF, Soriano being signed til he's 5,371, and Fukudome just signing his 4 year deal. I would take advantage of his value now before he comes up here and does something stupid like walking 1 time in 80 PA.

Edited February 1, 2008 by New York Cubs Fan

[CubColtPacer]

The biggest issue is that there are no indications that the Padres are entertaining offers for Greene, and there was only one writer's speculation almost a year ago that they ever were. They are a contending team with no other SS. There is nothing the Cubs can offer them that can make them better in 2008 while giving up Greene (without being ridiculous and saying the Cubs could offer them Hill or something like that).

 

Sure, it would be better that the Cubs got Greene than if the Cubs got Roberts if both were available. There's no reason why Greene would be available this offseason. Plus, in your trade scenarios, Fontenot or Theriot would start at second base, which is just as bad as having Theriot play at SS.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

THE LAST THING WE NEED IS A GUY WHO STRIKES OUT ALOT AND DOESN'T GET ON BASE! WHO CARES ABOUT PETCO!

[sneakypower]

BLUE JAYS GET: Mark DeRosa, Ryan Dempster, Sean Gallagher

Why don't we just use that offer to get Jimmy Rollins? Our lineup will be super awesome then!

[SABR Gamer]

I think I'd rather have Greene + Theriot than Theriot + DeRosa. Greene hits like a machine on the road, he would be a bigger impact than DeRosa, and he brings D to a more important position. If your not happy with that anyway though (and I don't like having Theriot as a starter either) you could use guys like Veal, Colvin, Ceda, etc. to trade for a good 2B (Even Roberts, I gotta believe that would be enough, maybe, idk.)

 

1. Soriano ® (30-40 HR)

2. Roberts (L) (10-15 HR)

3. Lee ® (25-35 HR)

4. Ramirez ® (30-40 HR)

5. Fukudome (L) (15-20 HR)

6. Greene ® (25-30 HR)

7. Soto ® (15-20 HR)

8. Pie (L) (10-15 HR)

 

I was going to bat B-Rob 1, but I had to be realistic, and I doubt Soriano will be anywhere but leadoff...so yeah. I would also prefer Rammy in the 3 spot, but in the eyes of Lou, and the MLB respect code or whatever Lee has earned the right to have that spot as long as he wants it, so again...yeah. Also, knowing that Jim and Lou have a thing for the whole R/L/R/L stuff, Soto could move to 8 and Pie to 7, but I'd think and hope they put Soto closer to the middle of the lineup where he could drive people in, even though, with this team, he may be able to do it from the 8 spot. This is a pretty powerful lineup.

[SABR Gamer]

BLUE JAYS GET: Mark DeRosa, Ryan Dempster, Sean Gallagher

Why don't we just use that offer to get Jimmy Rollins? Our lineup will be super awesome then!

 

Because the Phillies wouldn't take that offer, thats a horrible offer, but for some reason, Toronto has a thing for both Dempster and DeRosa, so them plus a solid pitching prospect may be enough for an injury prone #2. If thats not enough add Ceda. A starting 2B, a piece of poop, and 2 good minor leaguers for an injury prone #2 seems fair.

[BigbadB]

The biggest issue is that there are no indications that the Padres are entertaining offers for Greene, and there was only one writer's speculation almost a year ago that they ever were. They are a contending team with no other SS. There is nothing the Cubs can offer them that can make them better in 2008 while giving up Greene (without being ridiculous and saying the Cubs could offer them Hill or something like that).

 

Sure, it would be better that the Cubs got Greene than if the Cubs got Roberts if both were available. There's no reason why Greene would be available this offseason. Plus, in your trade scenarios, Fontenot or Theriot would start at second base, which is just as bad as having Theriot play at SS.

 

It is true that the Padres have not made Greene available, at least to the media. I believe the Padres will trade Greene if a long term deal is not an option. But, they have at least a year and a half to make that happen. In other words, they don't "have" to trade him at all this year.

 

I also agree that we don't have the parts to make them better, although Pie would be someone they would likely be very interested in.

 

A 3 team trade is probably the best way to get Greene if the Padres were interested in moving him. At this point, I would imagine it would take a bigger offer for the Padres to trade Greene than it would to get the Orioles to trade Roberts. The Orioles have already given up on '08. The Padres have not.

[BigbadB]

BLUE JAYS GET: Mark DeRosa, Ryan Dempster, Sean Gallagher

Why don't we just use that offer to get Jimmy Rollins? Our lineup will be super awesome then!

 

Because the Phillies wouldn't take that offer, thats a horrible offer, but for some reason, Toronto has a thing for both Dempster and DeRosa, so them plus a solid pitching prospect may be enough for an injury prone #2. If thats not enough add Ceda. A starting 2B, a piece of poop, and 2 good minor leaguers for an injury prone #2 seems fair.

 

I sensed a bit of sarcasm in his post.

[wrigley23]

the only reason the cubs want roberts is to get soriano out of the leadoff spot. those spouting roberts would bat second to soriano are wrong.

[SABR Gamer]

THE LAST THING WE NEED IS A GUY WHO STRIKES OUT ALOT AND DOESN'T GET ON BASE! WHO CARES ABOUT PETCO!

 

Sarcasm or are you serious? Because if your serious, then wow. Because you know, an average fielding SS, that doesn't get on base and can't hit for any power is so much better than a SS, who is good at defense, and gets on base just as much outside of PETCO as the guy we have, and can hit 25+ jacks, any day of the week right....

 

Name - OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS +

Theriot - .326, .346, .672, 72

Greene* - .322, .519, .840, 123

 

 

 

*outside PETCO

 

 

EDIT: My sentence was really screwed up, I was trying to say that the crap guy is much better than the good guy any day of the week right.....

Edited February 1, 2008 by New York Cubs Fan

[ThePenguin11]

BLUE JAYS GET: Mark DeRosa, Ryan Dempster, Sean Gallagher

Why don't we just use that offer to get Jimmy Rollins? Our lineup will be super awesome then!

 

Because the Phillies wouldn't take that offer, thats a horrible offer, but for some reason, Toronto has a thing for both Dempster and DeRosa, so them plus a solid pitching prospect may be enough for an injury prone #2. If thats not enough add Ceda. A starting 2B, a piece of poop, and 2 good minor leaguers for an injury prone #2 seems fair.

 

I sensed a bit of sarcasm in his post.

 

It's because Toronto loves players whose names begin with 'De'. Do we still have Bob Dernier to possibly throw in?

[SABR Gamer]

BLUE JAYS GET: Mark DeRosa, Ryan Dempster, Sean Gallagher

Why don't we just use that offer to get Jimmy Rollins? Our lineup will be super awesome then!

 

Because the Phillies wouldn't take that offer, thats a horrible offer, but for some reason, Toronto has a thing for both Dempster and DeRosa, so them plus a solid pitching prospect may be enough for an injury prone #2. If thats not enough add Ceda. A starting 2B, a piece of poop, and 2 good minor leaguers for an injury prone #2 seems fair.

 

I sensed a bit of sarcasm in his post.

 

 

Obviously, but it seems it was sarcastic as if to say, yeah fat chance that Toronto would accept that, even though there is a reason that I proposed that trade, I wouldn't just put a trade scenario where we give up crap (Demp) as a key part of the trade to get a #2 starter without a reason.

[SABR Gamer]

the only reason the cubs want roberts is to get soriano out of the leadoff spot. those spouting roberts would bat second to soriano are wrong.

 

Thats not why they want him, they want him cuz he can hit lefty and steals bases, two qualities that Jimbo is in love with even though steals aren't worth much, if anything at all, and the lefty part is less important in my opinion than just flat out getting the best player you can period. And just because of who you are, no offense, I think I believe its even less likely that Roberts would lead off, now that you have assured it.

Edited February 1, 2008 by New York Cubs Fan

[javy knows my name]

THE LAST THING WE NEED IS A GUY WHO STRIKES OUT ALOT AND DOESN'T GET ON BASE! WHO CARES ABOUT PETCO!

 

Sarcasm or are you serious? Because if your serious, then wow. Because you know, an average fielding SS, that doesn't get on base and can't hit for any power is so much better than a good defensive SS who gets on base just as much outside of PETCO as the guy we have, and can hit 25+ jacks any day of the week right....

 

Name - OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS +

Theriot - .326, .346, .672, 72

Greene* - .322, .519, .840, 123

 

 

 

*outside PETCO

Consider the source. This is not DeuceBaseman or Wrigley23. Your sarcasm meter needs some major repair. Where's the "sarchasm" guy when you need him?

Oh and 25 homers in a night is, I think, slightly too optimistic...

[SABR Gamer]

That would be impressive, but it's not what I meant. Poor English on my part. My bad.

[SweetZombieJesus]

BLUE JAYS GET: Mark DeRosa, Ryan Dempster, Sean Gallagher

Why don't we just use that offer to get Jimmy Rollins? Our lineup will be super awesome then!

 

Because the Phillies wouldn't take that offer, thats a horrible offer, but for some reason, Toronto has a thing for both Dempster and DeRosa, so them plus a solid pitching prospect may be enough for an injury prone #2. If thats not enough add Ceda. A starting 2B, a piece of poop, and 2 good minor leaguers for an injury prone #2 seems fair.

 

Toronto has a thing for guys under contract for some time. While dumping a guy who has a 99.9% chance of opting out of his contract at the end of the year.

[Derwood]

the only reason the cubs want roberts is to get soriano out of the leadoff spot. those spouting roberts would bat second to soriano are wrong.

 

you keep saying this. do you not read people's responses to your posts? LEADOFF IS NOT A POSITION

[inari]

the only reason the cubs want roberts is to get soriano out of the leadoff spot. those spouting roberts would bat second to soriano are wrong.

 

Keep saying it and maybe it will come true!

 

We don't know either way.

[SABR Gamer]

BLUE JAYS GET: Mark DeRosa, Ryan Dempster, Sean Gallagher

Why don't we just use that offer to get Jimmy Rollins? Our lineup will be super awesome then!

 

Because the Phillies wouldn't take that offer, thats a horrible offer, but for some reason, Toronto has a thing for both Dempster and DeRosa, so them plus a solid pitching prospect may be enough for an injury prone #2. If thats not enough add Ceda. A starting 2B, a piece of poop, and 2 good minor leaguers for an injury prone #2 seems fair.

 

Toronto has a thing for guys under contract for some time. While dumping a guy who has a 99.9% chance of opting out of his contract at the end of the year.

 

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the opt-out clause that Burnett has. If we got him, would you guys extend him? Lots of talent, but still a risk.

[Sammy Sofa]

the only reason the cubs want roberts is to get soriano out of the leadoff spot. those spouting roberts would bat second to soriano are wrong.

 

Absolutely ridiculous. If they were "desperate" to get him to hit elsewhere, they would have just switched him out last year and put a combo of, say, Murton and DeRosa at the top.

[SweetZombieJesus]

BLUE JAYS GET: Mark DeRosa, Ryan Dempster, Sean Gallagher

Why don't we just use that offer to get Jimmy Rollins? Our lineup will be super awesome then!

 

Because the Phillies wouldn't take that offer, thats a horrible offer, but for some reason, Toronto has a thing for both Dempster and DeRosa, so them plus a solid pitching prospect may be enough for an injury prone #2. If thats not enough add Ceda. A starting 2B, a piece of poop, and 2 good minor leaguers for an injury prone #2 seems fair.

 

Toronto has a thing for guys under contract for some time. While dumping a guy who has a 99.9% chance of opting out of his contract at the end of the year.

 

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the opt-out clause that Burnett has. If we got him, would you guys extend him? Lots of talent, but still a risk.

 

Only way he doesn't test the FA market next fall is if his arm completely falls off and is eaten by a shark before they can reattach it.

[fromthestretch]

[Where's the "sarchasm" guy when you need him?

 

You rang?

[ctcf]

The Padres are close to signing Khalil Greene to a one- or two-year deal, MLB.com reports.

The team wanted to lock him up for three or four years, but talks didn't get very far. Two years would take him up to free agency. Greene asked for $4.9 million and was offered $4.1 million for 2008.

 

Per rotoworld. I pray this ends speculation regarding him.

[Mephistopheles]

The Padres are close to signing Khalil Greene to a one- or two-year deal, MLB.com reports.

The team wanted to lock him up for three or four years, but talks didn't get very far. Two years would take him up to free agency. Greene asked for $4.9 million and was offered $4.1 million for 2008.

 

Per rotoworld. I pray this ends speculation regarding him.

 

there is no speculation regarding. everyone knows we're not getting. it's just what we want.

[mdwilla]

it doesn't end the speculation he didn't sign a long term deal there and Towers might decide to try and trade him now while his vaule is at it's highest. Not likely but you never know.