Nick Swisher to the White Sox

[cheapseats]

Pretty bad trade for the White Sox.

 

It's bad baseball to make a move that takes you from a 72-win team to a 78-win team.

 

They should be selling their veterans for players like the ones they gave up.

 

Sox fans should dislike the trade, but not for the reasons they've been expressing.

 

While I completely agree with you regarding that with or without they aren't going to the playoffs, it wasn't like he traded those guys for a one year rental. He saw value and he got it. He'll have Swisher locked down for cheap for a while and he should gain a lot of perceived value playing in that park. KW could possibly flip him for better pitching prospects in the future. Although his Dye blunder makes that unlikely. Even with Gio and De Los Santos they aren't going to be a playoff contender. I say good trade because he got value IMO.

 

Swisher will be under a favorable contract for a while, but unless the Sox make some more moves it probably won't matter much. Right now they have a "win now" type of team in a division they can't win, and with no minor league system to speak of, they're probably in for a drop off in performance unless they spend a lot in free agency. In a vacuum I think it's a good trade for Chicago, but it's a move in a direction they shouldn't be going.

 

My thoughts exactly. This trade will probably help them finish ahead of the Royals this year, and it might give them a shot at Minnesota, but there's no way they finish ahead of Detroit and Cleveland.

[badnews]

The A's got ripped off and the White Sox got an excellent deal, no question.

 

Let's see... this De Los Santos guy came out of nowhere and has pitched 1 year. Ryan Sweeney is worthless. Gio Gonzalez is nice but BA only calls him a 2-3 starter. Yeah. Since when are guys like Swisher who are cheap and under contract for a long, long time available so freely? I wouldn't be surprised if he put up a .900+ OPS in 2008. The White Sox could sell him off for an even better package if they aren't any good soon.

 

We should've upgraded the Brian Roberts offers a little and gotten Swisher.

[RynoRules]

This is a bad deal for the A's, IMO.

 

I understand that Beane feels that the Halos are all but uncatchable in his division and doesn't want to waste time trying to build a team with a limited payroll capable of competing with them. But he could have gotten a much better haul for Swisher, IMO.

 

EDIT: And I agree that Swisher doesn't make the Sox near good enough to catch Detroit or Cleveland. He would have made a much bigger difference for the Cubs.

[Backtobanks]

KW has got to have some more moves coming. He's got to move Konerko and/or Thome and, of course, Crede, to get some help for the mound and at leadoff. He's traded what was left of a thin minor league system for someone who, without any more moves, would "improve" the Sox to finish just under .500. Unless he makes some big moves -- and perhaps even if he does -- he's going to be lost miles behind the Indians, Tigers, et. al. And Sox Park will be empty again -- except for the Cubs series. Sounds pretty good to me; keeps my relatives on the south side quiet. :D

 

He had his chance to trade Dye and didn't. Hes committed to his players and I'm guessing has the edict from above that they are not going to be rebuilding so soon after a WS Ring (even though thats what they should be doing). Crede is going to go before opening day for sure, but thats not going to get him much. He is doing what sooooo many teams do that they shouldn't, meander in the middle.

 

Imagine if Kenny didn't resign all those players and give them no-trade contracts. Think about the prospects he could get for Buerhle, Konerko, Dye, Crede, Vasquez, etc. They should have traded Garland for prospects (Aybar & Wood?) With luck, they have a shot at 3rd place in 2008 and no farm system to replace all of their aging players. Look at the offers that the Orioles are getting for Bedard and imagine putting Buerhle's name out there. Think about what the Angels would offer for Konerko. The Swisher trade wasn't bad if you have a competitive team for 2008, but the Sox don't.

[jmajew]

If the Sox are playing for this year, this is only a good deal for the White Sox if they trade either Konerko or Thome. I would say Dye but I think he is untradeable at this point. Konerko could be a good option for the Giants, Dodgers and Angels. Thome i'm not sure where he would fit, but I'm there would be interest in him.

 

If they are looking at Swisher as a long term solution and a solid player to build around when Thome and Dye are done it makes more sense. But at this point in time KW still believes the Sox are contenders and he is flat out wrong about that.

[abuck1220]

They should have traded Garland for prospects (Aybar & Wood?)

 

the angels would never have done that.

 

 

good trade by the sox.

[Guest]

The White Sox are going to try and compete with a rotation of Buerhle, the shell of Javier Vazquez, the remains of Jose Contreras, the possibility of John Danks and the remnant hope of Gavin Floyd. They've traded whatever depth they had behind those guys in case of injury or lack of performance. If they want to compete this year, they'd better score a heck of a lot of runs.

 

But I still think they came out better in the trade. The way to win trades is to always increase the overall talent base in your overall system. They did that. Swisher is going to mash in that park at a reasonable price over the next few years. He'll then bring in a couple of players with the draft compensation to make up for the loss of the current prospects.

[RynoRules]

The White Sox are going to try and compete with a rotation of Buerhle, the shell of Javier Vazquez, the remains of Jose Contreras, the possibility of John Danks and the remnant hope of Gavin Floyd. They've traded whatever depth they had behind those guys in case of injury or lack of performance. If they want to compete this year, they'd better score a heck of a lot of runs.

 

But I still think they came out better in the trade. The way to win trades is to always increase the overall talent base in your overall system. They did that. Swisher is going to mash in that park at a reasonable price over the next few years. He'll then bring in a couple of players with the draft compensation to make up for the loss of the current prospects.

 

I agree the Sox got the better end of the deal (Swisher is young, productive and cheap), but unless Kenny plans to follow this up by improving his rotation and trading for a real SS, I don't see how they compete with Detroit and Cleveland over the next several years. Thome, Konerko and Dye are each on the wrong side of their careers (though Konerko as a full-time DH would be good), and you accurately summarized their pitching woes.

 

If it were me, I probably would have dealth away the tradeable veteran parts and try to land a cornerstone prospect, but that's easy for me to say. They'd lose their fickel fanbase for another 5-7 yrs if they did that.

[abuck1220]

i don't see how any of their veterans would have brought a cornerstone prospect.

[RammyFanny]

The White Sox are going to try and compete with a rotation of Buerhle, the shell of Javier Vazquez, the remains of Jose Contreras, the possibility of John Danks and the remnant hope of Gavin Floyd. They've traded whatever depth they had behind those guys in case of injury or lack of performance. If they want to compete this year, they'd better score a heck of a lot of runs.

 

But I still think they came out better in the trade. The way to win trades is to always increase the overall talent base in your overall system. They did that. Swisher is going to mash in that park at a reasonable price over the next few years. He'll then bring in a couple of players with the draft compensation to make up for the loss of the current prospects.

 

I agree the Sox got the better end of the deal (Swisher is young, productive and cheap), but unless Kenny plans to follow this up by improving his rotation and trading for a real SS, I don't see how they compete with Detroit and Cleveland over the next several years. Thome, Konerko and Dye are each on the wrong side of their careers (though Konerko as a full-time DH would be good), and you accurately summarized their pitching woes.

 

If it were me, I probably would have dealth away the tradeable veteran parts and try to land a cornerstone prospect, but that's easy for me to say. They'd lose their fickel fanbase for another 5-7 yrs if they did that.

Cabrera won't light the world on fire but I don't see how they realistically upgrade from him without really hurting themselves. There just aren't that many SS better than him available. Maybe you just forgot about him.

[jersey cubs fan]

This is a bad deal for the A's, IMO.

 

I understand that Beane feels that the Halos are all but uncatchable in his division and doesn't want to waste time trying to build a team with a limited payroll capable of competing with them. But he could have gotten a much better haul for Swisher, IMO.

 

It seems to me like he was most interested in good prospects who were not going to be making arbitration money until a few years after the opening of the new stadium. He seemed to target guys who weren't necessarily "major league ready", which indicates to me he believes the market for major league ready prospects is overvalued. In other words, a B- prospect whom everybody believes can pitch in the majors next year may be valued at X. And he's going to make the major league minimum today, plus start his option/arbitration clocks. While a B+ prospect whom everybody believes is a year away may be valued at X-Y, so he'd rather take the slightly better guy who is a little further away and likely to cost significantly less over the next 4-5 years.

[jersey cubs fan]

Gio Gonzalez is nice but BA only calls him a 2-3 starter.

 

I doubt Billy Beane much cares what type of pitcher BA thinks a guy will be.

[Backtobanks]

i don't see how any of their veterans would have brought a cornerstone prospect.

 

Buerhle could have gotten them 2-3 cornerstone prospects alone. Konerko would get them probably 2 more. Dye might get you a top AA prospect.

[SouthSideRyan]

Swisher is signed through '12. I really don't understand dealing him now. It's bizarre.

 

It's also bizarre for the Sox to be dealing away their top 2 prospects before a season that they have no chance to contend. Swisher is going to be good for awhile though, so the Sox win this one.

 

It seems like payroll constraints have finally caught up to Beane, and he's looking a little too long term as a result. I don't know if he's rolling over money from the current payroll, to build up a legit payroll 2 years down the road, but if he's not given the money to compete, he's never gonna catch the Angels.

[RammyFanny]

Good trade for Oakland. Let's assume both of these pitchers turn out to be number 3 starters (although Los Santos has the upside for much better, and Gonzales will probably consistently be what Hill was last year). A number 3 starter these days is worth about 12 million each, so essentially Beane traded an outfielder for 24 million dollars worth of pitchers.

 

Now let's keep in mind the fact that there always seems to be decent OPS outfielders available that wouldn't cost the farm, who for whatever reason don't fit with their team (see Matt Murton or Luke Scott). Is the difference in say .40 points of OPS worth 24 million in value of starting pitchers? I think Beane has found that answer.

 

(Obviously i'm talking about in a year or two when these guys are in the rotation)

[Guest]

Assuming that young pitchers can handle a workload without their arms falling off or their stuff declining is a very big leap. Beane traded for the potential of $24M worth of pitchers, not the guarantee of it.

[RammyFanny]

Assuming that young pitchers can handle a workload without their arms falling off or their stuff declining is a very big leap. Beane traded for the potential of $24M worth of pitchers, not the guarantee of it.

Definately true. But even with Swisher, they weren't going to be contending anytime soon. I think it's a risk that he had to take. As Beane said, "You're either rebuilding for something special or you are something special, to be in between is foolish".

[SouthSideRyan]

Yeah that's a pretty huge limb assuming Gonzalez and De Los Santos as #3 pitchers. It's dangerous to assume them as viable major leaguers at all.

 

The one thing Oakland does have to help explain things is that their corners were pretty full with Cust, Barton, and Buck already on the team.

[KenCub]

The Sox fans I talked to are not so much upset at getting Swisher, but the fact that they have 1 and 1/2 pitchers in their rotation, no bullpen beyond Jenks and (maybe) Thornton, and Swisher is a pretty similar player to a lot of guys they have already (although he walks more than anyone except Thome).

Kenny Williams talks everyone's ear off about the value of pitching, then proceeds to deal pitchers away left and right. It's to the point where Sox fans want the team to acquire broken-armed question marks like Bartolo Colon or Freddy Garcia again.

I think it's going to be another really long year for them. Everything would have to fall into place for them to even finish third.

[RammyFanny]

"Our status quo as we stood going into the season was mediocrity at best," Beane said. "That's my opinion. If anything we're taking a step back with the idea we have a chance to build something very good for a long time. ... The cost of indecision for us probably would be a bigger mistake."

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

"Our status quo as we stood going into the season was mediocrity at best," Beane said. "That's my opinion. If anything we're taking a step back with the idea we have a chance to build something very good for a long time. ... The cost of indecision for us probably would be a bigger mistake."

I love him

[abuck1220]

i don't see how any of their veterans would have brought a cornerstone prospect.

 

Buerhle could have gotten them 2-3 cornerstone prospects alone.

 

that's insane. or you and i have different definitions of "cornerstone."

[Backtobanks]

i don't see how any of their veterans would have brought a cornerstone prospect.

 

Buerhle could have gotten them 2-3 cornerstone prospects alone.

 

that's insane. or you and i have different definitions of "cornerstone."

 

May I suggest you look at some of the offers the Orioles are considering for Bedard and tell me the White Sox couldn't get the same offer (or better) for Buerhle.

[abuck1220]

i don't see how any of their veterans would have brought a cornerstone prospect.

 

Buerhle could have gotten them 2-3 cornerstone prospects alone.

 

that's insane. or you and i have different definitions of "cornerstone."

 

May I suggest you look at some of the offers the Orioles are considering for Bedard and tell me the White Sox couldn't get the same offer (or better) for Buerhle.

 

why would they get a better offer for buerhle?

 

i haven't seen any offers for bedard that include 2-3 cornerstone prospects. feel free to throw a few at me.

[BDWeav71]

i don't see how any of their veterans would have brought a cornerstone prospect.

 

Buerhle could have gotten them 2-3 cornerstone prospects alone.

 

that's insane. or you and i have different definitions of "cornerstone."

 

May I suggest you look at some of the offers the Orioles are considering for Bedard and tell me the White Sox couldn't get the same offer (or better) for Buerhle.

 

 

Buerhle was going to be a free agent, and was going to demand a lot of money to resign. Bedard is under control of the team who acquires him for several more years (until 2010, i believe). The Sox would not have gotten a better offer for Buehrle than the O's are going to get for Bedard IMO.