Pie Leading Off??!

[David]

Sorry if it's a repost, but this looks like CPat all over again if it's for real.

 

This guy at OriolesHangout claims to have seen Lou at a memorabilia convention and says that Lou told him we have Pie penciled in to lead off and play CF. This it he first I've heard of any plan to put Pie at leadoff. I'm not huge on lineup order, but having one of the biggest uncertainties in the lineup take the most PAs on the team doesn't seem like a smart idea. It also might mean that they're going to screw him all up and try to change his approach at the major league level like they may or may not have done to Corey.

 

I suppose it makes more sense (not that it makes sense either way) if BRob isn't acquired. If BRob were acquired (without giving up Pie), it would make zero sense. If he weren't acquired, it would make slightly more sense than that.

 

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56443

 

First, let me say that I don't have inside sources, however I did have the opportunity last Sunday to speak with Lou Piniella for about 15-20 minutes one on one. I waited until the dust cleared with all these potential trades this week but here is what happened.

 

He was in Secaucus, New Jersey at a collectible show as was I.

 

I happened to be in the private room for the players because of my friendship with the person who organized the show.

 

Here's how the conversation went:

 

He actually passed me and said hello. I introduced myself and he did as well. Of course, I knew who he was.

 

He then sat down to sign a multitude of items for several collectible companies. Remember this is a private room where no fans or attendees are allowed.

 

I then took a chance and mentioned that I was from Baltimore and how we keep hearing about BROb to the Cubs.

 

His intial reaction was "I really like him. He's a very soild ballplayer!"

 

Then he started to inquisitively ask me about him and what I was hearing.

I told him that I was hearing BROB to the Cubs and that we were very interested in Felix Pie. He paused, smiled and said "Well, we have him penciled in leading off and starting in center. But, that call is up to Mr. Hendry. He'll make that decision."

 

I asked him if Pie was untouchable and he said, it would be difficult to pry him away. Then he started asking all the questions and wanted know about other prospects we had, what teams were interested in Tejada, Bedard,etc...

 

He was extremely genuine and a pleasure to speak with.

 

So what I came with was that Piniella really wants BROB as his 2nd baseman. However, the likelihood is that Pie will not be coming back to us.

 

Could just be BS, but take it for whatever it's worth.

 

If true, though, and this guy wasn't misunderstanding Lou or just making things up, it's the first we've heard of any plan to get Soriano out of the leadoff spot.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

362/410/563/973 deserves a chance to be in the lineup, I don't care in which spot

[Yanksfan1523]

I agree Pie should be in the lineup. As for leading off, it isn't the worst idea. It is much better than batting him 7th or 8th. At least with the guys at the top, he will see some pitches. If you put him at the bottom, he will see garbage. The problem is, Pie needs to be given the job for 4-6 weeks and not have to look over his shoulder. This will give him the time to adjust to MLB pitching and find a comfort zone. Until he is given a legitimate shot, you will never see what he can really do. I saw him in Iowa and he can rake.

[anabiono]

exactly, look at tulo last season...he started off horrible...but hurdle said that he was going to stick with him and in about a month or so he started to hit...

 

i firmly believe pie needs the same situation...just give him some time...it is the only way to find out if he is going to be as good as we all think he could be

[UMFan83]

I agree Pie should be in the lineup. As for leading off, it isn't the worst idea. It is much better than batting him 7th or 8th. At least with the guys at the top, he will see some pitches. If you put him at the bottom, he will see garbage. The problem is, Pie needs to be given the job for 4-6 weeks and not have to look over his shoulder. This will give him the time to adjust to MLB pitching and find a comfort zone. Until he is given a legitimate shot, you will never see what he can really do. I saw him in Iowa and he can rake.

 

From June 3rd - June 23 he got at least 3 PA in every game, most of them starting and hitting 2nd, a span of just about 3 weeks. The job was essentially his if he played up to potential. But overall, I agree with you, I expect him to improve over last year and needs to be given the opportunity.

[MPrior]

I agree that Pie needs to play at least for a good while, if he's on the team. However, I don't agree that leadoff is better than 7th or 8th. Giving the most PAs on the team to a huge question mark who can't hit lefties even when he's going good and has less-than-perfect plate discipline is not a good idea. Leave him at the bottom of the order where he does less damage if he sucks and feels less pressure to "catalyze the lineup" or whatever nonsense they throw at him.

[SouthSideRyan]

Well he is fast, black, and a CF.

[Yestheydo]

Maybe they could have him lead off against RHP, and switch him with Theriot against LHP.

[Banedon]

Well he is fast, black, and a CF.

 

Gritty?

[Sammy Sofa]

Maybe they could have him lead off against RHP, and switch him with Theriot against LHP.

 

Awful idea. People complain about Soriano's OBP as the leadoff hitter, then why in God's name would we want Theriot up there?

[Yanksfan1523]

I agree that Pie needs to play at least for a good while, if he's on the team. However, I don't agree that leadoff is better than 7th or 8th. Giving the most PAs on the team to a huge question mark who can't hit lefties even when he's going good and has less-than-perfect plate discipline is not a good idea. Leave him at the bottom of the order where he does less damage if he sucks and feels less pressure to "catalyze the lineup" or whatever nonsense they throw at him.

 

If you bat him 8th he will never see a pitch to hit and you will destroy any confidence he has. 7th is debatable depending on who is 8th. Plus you will be wasting his speed down that far.

[David]

Maybe they could have him lead off against RHP, and switch him with Theriot against LHP.

 

Awful idea. People complain about Soriano's OBP as the leadoff hitter, then why in God's name would we want Theriot up there?

 

 

.286/.353/.444 vs. lefties last year in 126 ABs

 

.301/.384/.462 vs. lefties career in 186 ABs

 

I'm not saying I would do it or agree with it (nor do I want Theriot anywhere near the everyday lineup, but oh well), but it wasn't a completely absurd idea.

[Yestheydo]

Maybe they could have him lead off against RHP, and switch him with Theriot against LHP.

 

Awful idea. People complain about Soriano's OBP as the leadoff hitter, then why in God's name would we want Theriot up there?

 

 

.286/.353/.444 vs. lefties last year in 126 ABs

 

.301/.384/.462 vs. lefties career in 186 ABs

 

I'm not saying I would do it or agree with it (nor do I want Theriot anywhere near the everyday lineup, but oh well), but it wasn't a completely absurd idea.

 

Thanks. Theriot against lefties would almost certainly be better than Pie against lefties.

[Sammy Sofa]

We can also look at his numbers when he was actually the leadoff hitter last year.

[David]

We can also look at his numbers when he was actually the leadoff hitter last year.

 

 

Sarcasm?

 

Lefty/righty splits at least have some level of legitimacy. Granted, not a great sample size...

[forbez18]

I would rather keep Soriano in the lead off, but then have Pie bat 9th. This way Soriono has the metal approach to leading off, and I am a big fan of it when he starts the game off with a HR. I think it destroys a pitchers confidence for the rest of the game. However, I believe that Pie needs to be protected, and if you are able to slide him in right before Soriono it would be pretty good protection.

 

Soriono

Fukudome

Lee

Ramierez

Soto

Derosa

Theriot

Pitcher

Pie

 

I have never been a big fan of the pitcher batting 9th because if you go 1,2,3 in the first two inning's it kills the third. Usually if one of the first two gets on it is then a double play or the pitcher is unable to move him over. With the pitcher batting 8th it gives him a much better chance to bunt a guy over, or if 7 & 8 gets out. Pie can come up get on and steal a base and give Soriono a chance to get an RBI.

[MPrior]

I agree that Pie needs to play at least for a good while, if he's on the team. However, I don't agree that leadoff is better than 7th or 8th. Giving the most PAs on the team to a huge question mark who can't hit lefties even when he's going good and has less-than-perfect plate discipline is not a good idea. Leave him at the bottom of the order where he does less damage if he sucks and feels less pressure to "catalyze the lineup" or whatever nonsense they throw at him.

 

If you bat him 8th he will never see a pitch to hit and you will destroy any confidence he has. 7th is debatable depending on who is 8th. Plus you will be wasting his speed down that far.

 

This isn't really true. Lineup "protection" has been shown to have no real effect on a player's performance. Secondly, if the pitcher does nibble around the zone, it will help Pie improve his plate discipline.

[windycityfan]

362/410/563/973 deserves a chance to be in the lineup, I don't care in which spot

 

Are these Felix Pie's? :shock:

[Tyrant]

362/410/563/973 deserves a chance to be in the lineup, I don't care in which spot

 

Are these Felix Pie's? :shock:

 

His AAA numbers.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not all that opposed to Pie leading off. I'd like him around the 7th spot, if only to remove pressure and expectations from the fans, who would interpret Pie in the leadoff spot as needing to be great right off the bat. I am completely undecided on Pie. I wouldn't be upset if they traded him for value, but I think if he's on the roster, they pretty much have to go with him in center. Putting him at leadoff is a risk, but it's not an insanely huge risk. If he struggles, it's not like you have to give him 725 PA atop the lineup, which would hurt the team. You can still keep playing him after bumping him down. Plus, it would be a way to get a lefty near the top, assuming Fukudome hits 3rd or 4th (Hendry spoke of needing a LH bat to breakup Lee and Ramirez, so I assume that is where he'll bat).

 

Pie

Lee

Fukudome

Ramirez

Soriano

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

wouldn't kill me.

[sneakypower]

This isn't really true. Lineup "protection" has been shown to have no real effect on a player's performance. Secondly, if the pitcher does nibble around the zone, it will help Pie improve his plate discipline.

 

It has? I'd like to see the source of this, as the few articles I've read that claim to prove this were so specious and riddled with flawed logic it's laughable.

 

But you may be referring to a different study than the ones I've seen, in which case I'd be interested in seeing them.

[rawaction]

Pie at leadoff would be interesting. It's where he's hit most of his minor league career. I don't know that it would force Felix to look at more pitches or not. I'd probably rather keep Soriano leading off.

[jaxxradio]

I saw Pie lead-off when he was at West Tenn in 2005. I said it then and I will say it now, Pie isn't a lead-off hitter. The guy has zero plate discipline and doesn't get on base nearly enough to be a lead-off hitter. He would look good in the six or seven hole.

[jersey cubs fan]

I saw Pie lead-off when he was at West Tenn in 2005. I said it then and I will say it now, Pie isn't a lead-off hitter. The guy has zero plate discipline and doesn't get on base nearly enough to be a lead-off hitter. He would look good in the six or seven hole.

 

Ideally, I would agree he's not meant for the job. However, it's not like the Cubs have some perfect leadoff candidate he'd be holding back. And it's not like this is Juan Pierre and the Cubs are foolishly overpaying for a stereotypical leadoff man. It's not even Corey Patterson, where they tried to turn somebody whose game relied almost exclusively on power into a bunter.

 

If he puts up a terrible OBP, I would assume they move him out of the spot anyway. In 2005 he drew 16 BB in 262 AA plate appearances. Since then he's drawn 65 in 873 AAA PA. Not good, but better. Who knows, maybe he pulls a Jose Reyes and actually manages to pull it off despite less than ideal leadoff skills.

[jaxxradio]

Jersey, multiply those numbers out from Double-A to Triple-A. In other words, Pie has a little more than four times as many plate appearances in Triple-A. If you multiply the Double-A numbers by four, its basically the same if not worse.

 

64 walks in 848 plate appearances if you do the math. That's one fewer walk in twenty-five fewer plate appearances. About the same..