Ryan Theriot

[Rob]

This sort of outrageous sentiment towards him is exactly the reason I said we'd be better off cutting him this offseason. Theriot seems like a fine young man, but he is not good enough to be our starting shortstop... and as long as he's on this team, Lou is holding to the same antiquated notion of what a SS should be that he'll continue to start, and continue bringing this team down with him.

[USSoccer]

The fact that people really, truly think that Ryan Theriot was our MVP, and is a good young player is what's wrong with baseball.

 

Just to restate it....Ryan Theriot was one of the worst SS's in the NL last year. There's no way in hell he's a promising young anything.

 

-He's not "promising".

-He's not young.

[fromthestretch]

How many times in games did you see Theriot jump start an inning with an extra base hit?

 

literally hundreds.

 

oh, wait, he had like a .230 slugging %? probably not very many then. my bad.

 

1) already been said....scroll up

2) he proably had nothing to do with the Cubs winning the division or going to the playoffs considering he was 3rd in runs on the team (80), was one of six Cubs players who had over 100 hits (143)

3) remember when Alfonso was a 40/40 guy and this year he had 19 SB's in 135 games when Theriot had 28 in 148.. oh we paid Soriano 10,000,000 in 2007 to be our "leadoff man", tell me that theriot isn't worth that cost

4) this guy shouldnt be given a chance because hes a utility player, yeah right thats what Ronny Cedeno and the guy we just traded away Omar Infante is

 

2. You're praising him for 80 runs scored? That's actually low considering how often he hit in the first and second spots in the order. Most players with a respectable OBP would have had a lot more with Lee and Ramirez hitting behind them. And just about any major league hitter will get 100 hits if given as many plate appearances as Theriot. Most would get there in a lot less plate appearances.

 

3. Stealing bases doesn't make you a good leadoff hitter. Soriano brings much more to the table than Theriot, including getting on base more often in 2007.

 

4. Let me see if I get this straight...the Cubs should give Theriot another shot despite a bad season at age 27, but Ronny Cedeno is a utility player based on a bad season at age 23 (which was his only legitimate shot at starting full-time)? I'm not saying Cedeno will blossom into an All-Star, but his ceiling is so much higher than Theriot's.

 

Theriot is a utility player. He can fill in for a couple weeks without hurting the team when someone goes down with an injury. I don't think many people would have a problem with him being a bench player for the Cubs, but he shouldn't be starting everyday.

[jersey cubs fan]

When people ask why has sentiment shifted from pro-Theriot to anti-Theriot, at least on this board, it's exactly because of the outlandish statements the pro-Theriot crowd is now making. Ryan Theriot isn't a young guy who needs to develop. He's well past the age when you could reasonably expect time to be on his side. He was awful this season, and it is highly unlikely he will ever be any better.

 

Unfortunately, management appears to be on the side of those who believe Theriot is a lot more than he really is, so we will probably see a lot more of him. And most likely, we will have to see a lot more of even worse play to ever get a change to be made.

[ottawacubbie]

I reallly, really like Theriot. Is he my dream SS, no. However, if we were to take the soother out of Soriano's mouth and force him to learn how to bat second or fifth and go with Theriot he is our best option. Maybe Pie by year's end, but that is it. Any trade will cost too much. If Theriot doesn't get tired in September he would have hit .280/.349/.711. I am not saying he will develop, but give him a shot at the start of the year, batting where he belongs and see if he can continue to hit Major League pitching and if he can sustain a full season. His July numbers ware crazy. He had 5Ks to 14BB hit .348/.437/.483/.920. and really only had a weak June (79 ab) and September (99 ab). I just think the price is too much right now for a solid SS. I would rather wait until the season and people start losing their jobs (Theriot included) before we go addressing a minor weakness when we have three or four major issues at hand.

[jersey cubs fan]

I reallly, really like Theriot. Is he my dream SS, no. However, if we were to take the soother out of Soriano's mouth and force him to learn how to bat second or fifth and go with Theriot he is our best option. Maybe Pie by year's end, but that is it. Any trade will cost too much. If Theriot doesn't get tired in September he would have hit .280/.349/.711. I am not saying he will develop, but give him a shot at the start of the year, batting where he belongs and see if he can continue to hit Major League pitching and if he can sustain a full season. His July numbers ware crazy. He had 5Ks to 14BB hit .348/.437/.483/.920. and really only had a weak June (79 ab) and September (99 ab). I just think the price is too much right now for a solid SS. I would rather wait until the season and people start losing their jobs (Theriot included) before we go addressing a minor weakness when we have three or four major issues at hand.

 

Shortstop is by far, without question, the number 1 biggest glaring hole on this team. It's not about him getting tired. It's about him not being good. He would be a bad option at leadoff. If you had 7 other good hitters, you could live with him in the 8th spot, but that is it.

 

He sucks. It's just a fact.

 

Shorstop is the biggest weak spot on the offense.

[fromthestretch]

I reallly, really like Theriot. Is he my dream SS, no. However, if we were to take the soother out of Soriano's mouth and force him to learn how to bat second or fifth and go with Theriot he is our best option. Maybe Pie by year's end, but that is it. Any trade will cost too much. If Theriot doesn't get tired in September he would have hit .280/.349/.711. I am not saying he will develop, but give him a shot at the start of the year, batting where he belongs and see if he can continue to hit Major League pitching and if he can sustain a full season. His July numbers ware crazy. He had 5Ks to 14BB hit .348/.437/.483/.920. and really only had a weak June (79 ab) and September (99 ab). I just think the price is too much right now for a solid SS. I would rather wait until the season and people start losing their jobs (Theriot included) before we go addressing a minor weakness when we have three or four major issues at hand.

 

July was the outlier, not Sept. He was below a .700 OPS in every month but July.

[Skyballer]

Everyone knows I'm a Riot fan and everyone know that I made poor judgements about Theriot during the season. Bottom line, this thread is absurd. Theriot is a good utility guy that I'd like to stay on the team but not play 150 games.

[jersey cubs fan]

Everyone knows I'm a Riot fan and everyone know that I made poor judgements about Theriot during the season. Bottom line, this thread is absurd. Theriot is a good utility guy that I'd like to stay on the team but not play 150 games.

 

I, too, would like to see him on the team as a utility player. A guy making $350,000 who can OBP over .320 or so is a fairly valuable asset. Much better than a guy making $2.25 million with a sub .300 OBP.

[ottawacubbie]

 

Shorstop is the biggest weak spot on the offense.

 

OK, but what are the other options. I don't think there is a reliable enough shortstop available for the price of Hill. A cheap young talent like him, developed from within for a change, is vital to an organziation's ongoing success. I am not as high on Greene as everyone else.

I wouldn't give up a quality starter (hopefully on the rise for) .254/.291/.468 even if it comes with 20 more HRs. Especially for a right hander with a 128/32 K/BB ratio.

 

So who do you think is available who might help.

Edited December 11, 2007 by ottawacubbie

[ottawacubbie]

Everyone knows I'm a Riot fan and everyone know that I made poor judgements about Theriot during the season. Bottom line, this thread is absurd. Theriot is a good utility guy that I'd like to stay on the team but not play 150 games.

 

I agree, but I also think he is our best option right now and he will continue to be until next year's FA market with Cabrera, Cintron, Furcal, maybe Guzman and Edgar Renteria are out there.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Shorstop is the biggest weak spot on the offense.

 

OK, but what are the other options. I don't think there is a reliable enough shortstop available for the price of Hill. A cheap young talent like him, developed from within for a change, is vital to on organziations ongoing success. I am not as high on Greene as everyone else.

I wouldn't give up a quality starter (hopefully on the rise for) .254/.291/.468 even if it comes with 20 more HRs. Especially for a right hander with a 128/32 K/BB ratio.

 

So who do you think is available who might help.

 

Greene, Ronny Cedeno, probably a handful of others. The fact is, even a below average SS would be a significant improvement over Theriot. Cubs SS production was bottom of the barrel last year, and it wasn't because Izturis weighed it down. It's not just that SS is a place where they can improve, it's that SS is so god awful they must improve. You can't afford bottom of the barrel production at any position, unless the rest of your lineup is great. And clealry the rest of the Cubs' lineup is nowhere near great.

 

You don't have to be high on Greene to acknowledge he would be a huge improvement over Theriot. I'm not high on him either. I don't envision him as some star. I'm not nearly as confident he will reach the levels some have projected for him if he were to leave San Diego for Chicago. However, he's clearly better than Theriot, significantly so. And he provides even further upside that Theriot can not come close to providing.

[abuck1220]

oh we paid Soriano 10,000,000 in 2007 to be our "leadoff man", tell me that theriot isn't worth that cost

 

BEST POST EVER.

[Abe Frohman]

I am convinced that Theriot has robbed the homes of at least a dozen people on NSBB.com.

[abuck1220]

I am convinced that Theriot has robbed the homes of at least a dozen people on NSBB.com.

 

i'm convinced he built the homes of at least a dozen people on nsbb.

 

also, is it really so outlandish to think theriot's not worth $10 million?

Edited December 11, 2007 by abuck1220

[Sammy Sofa]

I am convinced that Theriot has robbed the homes of at least a dozen people on NSBB.com.

 

Yeah, that's it. It couldn't possibly be that it's glaringly obvious that he's not good enough to be an everyday starting SS on this team.

[Sammy Sofa]

Everyone knows I'm a Riot fan and everyone know that I made poor judgements about Theriot during the season. Bottom line, this thread is absurd. Theriot is a good utility guy that I'd like to stay on the team but not play 150 games.

 

I agree, but I also think he is our best option right now and he will continue to be until next year's FA market with Cabrera, Cintron, Furcal, maybe Guzman and Edgar Renteria are out there.

 

In terms of age, defense, ceiling and minor league performance, Cedeno is our best in-house option.

[Soul]

He's a bench player. If he's starting, it's a weakpoint. I'm not one to say he shouldn't be here at all, but he's really not starter-quality.

 

I do like him though. Guess the grit won me over. 8-) But as a supplemental player.

[ottawacubbie]

Greene, Ronny Cedeno, probably a handful of others. The fact is, even a below average SS would be a significant improvement over Theriot. Cubs SS production was bottom of the barrel last year, and it wasn't because Izturis weighed it down. It's not just that SS is a place where they can improve, it's that SS is so god awful they must improve. You can't afford bottom of the barrel production at any position, unless the rest of your lineup is great. And clealry the rest of the Cubs' lineup is nowhere near great.

 

You don't have to be high on Greene to acknowledge he would be a huge improvement over Theriot. I'm not high on him either. I don't envision him as some star. I'm not nearly as confident he will reach the levels some have projected for him if he were to leave San Diego for Chicago. However, he's clearly better than Theriot, significantly so. And he provides even further upside that Theriot can not come close to providing.

 

I am not going to disagree with you, you have valid points, but (and I am not trying to be a jerk here) the part I don't get is how we fix our biggest offensive hole by replacing.

 

.266/.326/.346 7 HR, 28 SB and a K-ratio of 50/49

 

with

 

.254/.291/.468 27 HR, 4 SB, and a K-ratio of 128/32.

 

Please explain, is it his potential or am I misinterpreting his stats and again I am trying to write this post COMPLETELY void of snarkyness if that is a word.

[Sammy Sofa]

However, if we were to take the soother out of Soriano's mouth and force him to learn how to bat second or fifth and go with Theriot he is our best option.

 

Not true. If you're talking hitting leadoff, both DeRosa ad Murton would be better options at #1 or #2 due to the fact they get on base at a much better clip than Theriot. And if the Cubs snag Fukudome and Roberts, he's pushed even further back on that list.

 

Theriot is perfectly serviceably backup player. I don't wish him ill or even off the team no matter what since he can play a role...but that role is not as a regular starter or hitting anywhere near the top of the lineup.

[jersey cubs fan]

I am not going to disagree with you, you have valid points, but (and I am not trying to be a jerk here) the part I don't get is how we fix our biggest offensive hole by replacing.

 

.266/.326/.346 7 HR, 28 SB and a K-ratio of 50/49

 

with

 

.254/.291/.468 27 HR, 4 SB, and a K-ratio of 128/32.

 

Please explain, is it his potential or am I misinterpreting his stats and again I am trying to write this post COMPLETELY void of snarkyness if that is a word.

 

A K/BB ratio has absolutely nothing to do with production. It's meaningless to this discussion.

 

You also can't merely replace Theriot's 2007 numbers with Greene's 2007 numbers. It's a fairly baseless comparison. You must take into account Greene's home park, and how much that hinders his overall numbers. We're talking about one 27 year old player with a career OPS+ of 101, and another 27 year old player with an OPS+ of 83. It's an enormous difference that the SB numbers don't even come close to compensating for.

[USSoccer]

I am convinced that Theriot has robbed the homes of at least a dozen people on NSBB.com.

 

Yes. It's impossible to conclude he sucks just based on the mountain of evidence at our disposal.

[ottawacubbie]

I am not going to disagree with you, you have valid points, but (and I am not trying to be a jerk here) the part I don't get is how we fix our biggest offensive hole by replacing.

 

.266/.326/.346 7 HR, 28 SB and a K-ratio of 50/49

 

with

 

.254/.291/.468 27 HR, 4 SB, and a K-ratio of 128/32.

 

Please explain, is it his potential or am I misinterpreting his stats and again I am trying to write this post COMPLETELY void of snarkyness if that is a word.

 

A K/BB ratio has absolutely nothing to do with production. It's meaningless to this discussion.

 

You also can't merely replace Theriot's 2007 numbers with Greene's 2007 numbers. It's a fairly baseless comparison. You must take into account Greene's home park, and how much that hinders his overall numbers. We're talking about one 27 year old player with a career OPS+ of 101, and another 27 year old player with an OPS+ of 83. It's an enormous difference that the SB numbers don't even come close to compensating for.

 

That is true, plus you have to believe that Greene would probably post 25 HR plus for the next 3 years. I agree, now is this increase in production worth trading Rich Hill for even if you were just playing for next year. Potential be damned

 

Is the difference between Joe-SS and Greene => to the difference between Hill and Marquis or Dempster or Marshall whomever would replace him in the depth chart?

[Abe Frohman]

I am convinced that Theriot has robbed the homes of at least a dozen people on NSBB.com.

 

i'm convinced he built the homes of at least a dozen people on nsbb.

 

also, is it really so outlandish to think theriot's not worth $10 million?

 

I don't think that's outlandish. He's not worth $10 million a year. He's not worth that much over 3-4 years, but he isn't even close to being as bad as what some of you guys make him out to be. Outside of a couple unproductive months, Theriot was very good for this team and far from a hinderance.

[USSoccer]

oh we paid Soriano 10,000,000 in 2007 to be our "leadoff man", tell me that theriot isn't worth that cost

 

BEST POST EVER.

 

Jesus, how did I miss that sentence? That's priceless.