What would B.Roberts and Fukudome do to help the offense?

[rawaction]

Roberts vs. DeRosa alone isn't a huge difference besides Roberts being able to hit lefthanded and speed. On that alone, don't know if it's worth it. However, as was mentioned DeRosa playing 3rd, SS, 1B, and OF 5 out of 6 games in a week might since he seems to be able to play anywhere and you know that he's going to be needed.

 

Not going to get into the leadoff hitter debates.

 

I mentioned this way, way back in the other Roberts thread, but I have a real problem with this idea that DeRosa would somehow get that many at bats with this potential line up.

 

Let's just say the Cubs get Fukudome and Roberts. Fukudome, Soriano, Roberts, Lee and Ramirez basically all play the most ideal positions that DeRosa would supposedly sub. Which of those guys do they realistically expect to give a day off each week to start DeRosa? Some of these guys are 8 figure salary per year guys. There are days off scheduled all season long.

 

And if DeRosa is sitting on the bench everyday because none of these guys are coming out of the line up while Theriot is starting everyday at SS, I'm gonna be pissed off.

 

Ramirez and Soriano each spent time on the DL last year. Lee spent time day-to-day with nagging injuries and was suspended for 5 games. Roberts has had a significant injury history. Also gotta figure Derosa will start vs. all LHPs, either in RF w/ Fukudome moving to CF, with Pie on the bench in the above scenario or at 2B for the LH hitting Roberts.

 

So, we are assuming all those same things will happen again this coming year? That's what makes DeRosa on the roster a good thing. But, you can do the same thing with him when he's needed elsewhere other than SS.

 

Of course they will all happen, especially that troublemaker Derrek Lee getting into a fight. I heard he is planning on a fight a week.

 

Naw, I'm guessing that's what the Cubs are thinking. As was pointed out in antoher thread, Derosa got over 500 ABs last year, and less than 1/2 were at 2B. I'm with you. He better be able to see significant time at SS if the Cubs are getting a 2B. It would make a lot more sense if they would actually, I don't know, get a SS and leave Dero alone.

[DenverCubs]

Someone may have mentioned this, but one of my favorite things about getting Roberts would be that maybe Lou would move Soriano OUT OF THE LEADOFF SPOT.

Maybe down to #2...but I doubt it.

 

The point of Kosuke is that he can be a middle of the order hitter to break up the right handers. So that still leaves only Roberts as a "natural" top of the order guy along with Soriano. Lou likes to have the lefty bat in the #2 spot - for one thing it does more to break up the right handers and it also is easier to take advantage of the hole on the right side when Soriano is on base. I'd bet we see a lineup along these lines on most days:

 

Soriano

Roberts

Lee

Kosuke

Ramirez

Soto

Pie

Theriot

I think I disagree. Though I now Lou gets a chubby for Soriano at leadoff I think he's left less that 1% flacid looking at Roberts. His hair cut is pretty scrappy and he won't clog up the bases. If Theriot was good enough to lead off when Sori was hurt Roberts should IMO be enough to take over the spot.

[CubsWin]

Roberts vs. DeRosa alone isn't a huge difference besides Roberts being able to hit lefthanded and speed. On that alone, don't know if it's worth it. However, as was mentioned DeRosa playing 3rd, SS, 1B, and OF 5 out of 6 games in a week might since he seems to be able to play anywhere and you know that he's going to be needed.

 

Not going to get into the leadoff hitter debates.

 

I mentioned this way, way back in the other Roberts thread, but I have a real problem with this idea that DeRosa would somehow get that many at bats with this potential line up.

 

Let's just say the Cubs get Fukudome and Roberts. Fukudome, Soriano, Roberts, Lee and Ramirez basically all play the most ideal positions that DeRosa would supposedly sub. Which of those guys do they realistically expect to give a day off each week to start DeRosa? Some of these guys are 8 figure salary per year guys. There are days off scheduled all season long.

 

And if DeRosa is sitting on the bench everyday because none of these guys are coming out of the line up while Theriot is starting everyday at SS, I'm gonna be pissed off.

 

Ramirez and Soriano each spent time on the DL last year. Lee spent time day-to-day with nagging injuries and was suspended for 5 games. Roberts has had a significant injury history. Also gotta figure Derosa will start vs. all LHPs, either in RF w/ Fukudome moving to CF, with Pie on the bench in the above scenario or at 2B for the LH hitting Roberts.

 

So, we are assuming all those same things will happen again this coming year? That's what makes DeRosa on the roster a good thing. But, you can do the same thing with him when he's needed elsewhere other than SS.

Ramirez is known for being slightly brittle and having to play hurt. Giving him a day off every other week, might keep him healthier longer and maximize his potential. Prior to last season, Soriano played almost everyday, but he's in his 30s now and it might be a smart thing to sit him down every other week or so, as well. Injuries happen, they always do. Acquiring Roberts allows DeRosa to fill in for that injured player without Cedeno or Fontenot entering the line-up.

 

True, if DeRosa isn't given a minimum of 400 ABs and hopefully more, that will definitely limit the impact of acquiring Roberts. But its not just the Cubs big contract guys that he would be covering for. With Pie playing CF, the Cubs will want to sit him from time to time against the tough lefty or if he struggles and move someone (hopefully Fukudome) over to center which opens up right for DeRosa to play. He would also be giving Roberts a rest when the match-up warrants it. Depth on a ballclub is important. With the ability to keep Ramirez, Soriano, Roberts and even Lee fresh on top of his major role of filling in for Fukudome in right when the Cubs sit Pie, it seems rather likely that DeRosa will get a minimum of 400 ABs. And if anyone should get injured, he will approach the same amount he had last season.

[CuseCubFan69]

Didn't Lou say Soriano is in his office the second he sees he's not playing?

[Guest]

Someone may have mentioned this, but one of my favorite things about getting Roberts would be that maybe Lou would move Soriano OUT OF THE LEADOFF SPOT.

Maybe down to #2...but I doubt it.

 

The point of Kosuke is that he can be a middle of the order hitter to break up the right handers. So that still leaves only Roberts as a "natural" top of the order guy along with Soriano. Lou likes to have the lefty bat in the #2 spot - for one thing it does more to break up the right handers and it also is easier to take advantage of the hole on the right side when Soriano is on base. I'd bet we see a lineup along these lines on most days:

 

Soriano

Roberts

Lee

Kosuke

Ramirez

Soto

Pie

Theriot

I think I disagree. Though I now Lou gets a chubby for Soriano at leadoff I think he's left less that 1% flacid looking at Roberts. His hair cut is pretty scrappy and he won't clog up the bases. If Theriot was good enough to lead off when Sori was hurt Roberts should IMO be enough to take over the spot.

Who does Lou have as a "prototype #2 hitter" in that scenario?

[BigbadB]

Roberts vs. DeRosa alone isn't a huge difference besides Roberts being able to hit lefthanded and speed. On that alone, don't know if it's worth it. However, as was mentioned DeRosa playing 3rd, SS, 1B, and OF 5 out of 6 games in a week might since he seems to be able to play anywhere and you know that he's going to be needed.

 

Not going to get into the leadoff hitter debates.

 

I mentioned this way, way back in the other Roberts thread, but I have a real problem with this idea that DeRosa would somehow get that many at bats with this potential line up.

 

Let's just say the Cubs get Fukudome and Roberts. Fukudome, Soriano, Roberts, Lee and Ramirez basically all play the most ideal positions that DeRosa would supposedly sub. Which of those guys do they realistically expect to give a day off each week to start DeRosa? Some of these guys are 8 figure salary per year guys. There are days off scheduled all season long.

 

And if DeRosa is sitting on the bench everyday because none of these guys are coming out of the line up while Theriot is starting everyday at SS, I'm gonna be pissed off.

 

Ramirez and Soriano each spent time on the DL last year. Lee spent time day-to-day with nagging injuries and was suspended for 5 games. Roberts has had a significant injury history. Also gotta figure Derosa will start vs. all LHPs, either in RF w/ Fukudome moving to CF, with Pie on the bench in the above scenario or at 2B for the LH hitting Roberts.

 

So, we are assuming all those same things will happen again this coming year? That's what makes DeRosa on the roster a good thing. But, you can do the same thing with him when he's needed elsewhere other than SS.

Ramirez is known for being slightly brittle and having to play hurt. Giving him a day off every other week, might keep him healthier longer and maximize his potential. Prior to last season, Soriano played almost everyday, but he's in his 30s now and it might be a smart thing to sit him down every other week or so, as well. Injuries happen, they always do. Acquiring Roberts allows DeRosa to fill in for that injured player without Cedeno or Fontenot entering the line-up.

 

True, if DeRosa isn't given a minimum of 400 ABs and hopefully more, that will definitely limit the impact of acquiring Roberts. But its not just the Cubs big contract guys that he would be covering for. With Pie playing CF, the Cubs will want to sit him from time to time against the tough lefty or if he struggles and move someone (hopefully Fukudome) over to center which opens up right for DeRosa to play. He would also be giving Roberts a rest when the match-up warrants it. Depth on a ballclub is important. With the ability to keep Ramirez, Soriano, Roberts and even Lee fresh on top of his major role of filling in for Fukudome in right when the Cubs sit Pie, it seems rather likely that DeRosa will get a minimum of 400 ABs. And if anyone should get injured, he will approach the same amount he had last season.

 

I agree 100% that depth is important. But, they have the depth regardless of whether DeRosa is playing SS or sitting on the bench. If Aramis needs a day off, DeRosa slides to 3b and Theriot gets the nod at SS. If DeRosa needs a day off, Theriot gets the nod at SS.

 

The depth of the squad doesn't change one bit whether DeRosa is labeled the super sub or Theriot is labeled the super sub. Offensive production changes a lot if DeRosa is sitting on the bench regularly and Theriot is playing regularly.

[Guest]

But why use deRosa for four at bats when you can have him for one at the end of the game?

[rawaction]

But why use deRosa for four at bats when you can have him for one at the end of the game?

 

Gotta maximize that clutchiness.

[DenverCubs]

Someone may have mentioned this, but one of my favorite things about getting Roberts would be that maybe Lou would move Soriano OUT OF THE LEADOFF SPOT.

Maybe down to #2...but I doubt it.

 

The point of Kosuke is that he can be a middle of the order hitter to break up the right handers. So that still leaves only Roberts as a "natural" top of the order guy along with Soriano. Lou likes to have the lefty bat in the #2 spot - for one thing it does more to break up the right handers and it also is easier to take advantage of the hole on the right side when Soriano is on base. I'd bet we see a lineup along these lines on most days:

 

Soriano

Roberts

Lee

Kosuke

Ramirez

Soto

Pie

Theriot

I think I disagree. Though I now Lou gets a chubby for Soriano at leadoff I think he's left less that 1% flacid looking at Roberts. His hair cut is pretty scrappy and he won't clog up the bases. If Theriot was good enough to lead off when Sori was hurt Roberts should IMO be enough to take over the spot.

Who does Lou have as a "prototype #2 hitter" in that scenario?

Not sure. I think Fukudome is more of a 2 hitter in the US though. I guess I forgot how much Lou and Jim like to go R-L-R at all costs.

[BigbadB]

Didn't Lou say Soriano is in his office the second he sees he's not playing?

 

Exactly my point. These guys are getting paid to play everyday and they pretty much want to be in there everyday. There are days off built into the schedule. Yes, occasionally there are long stretches of the season where you might want to rest a couple of the starters. In that case, take DeRosa out of the SS spot and move him around a little bit and give those players the necessary rest.

 

Lee won't be suspended and hopefully Soriano is over his leg injury. Typically, Soriano averages over 150 games a season, as does Lee. And if Lee does actually take a day off, are people honestly going to tell me that DeRosa will start at 1b over Daryle Ward?

 

I just don't see where DeRosa gets enough at bats filling this made up "super sub" position.

[soapy]

Didn't Lou say Soriano is in his office the second he sees he's not playing?

 

Exactly my point. These guys are getting paid to play everyday and they pretty much want to be in there everyday. There are days off built into the schedule. Yes, occasionally there are long stretches of the season where you might want to rest a couple of the starters. In that case, take DeRosa out of the SS spot and move him around a little bit and give those players the necessary rest.

 

Lee won't be suspended and hopefully Soriano is over his leg injury. Typically, Soriano averages over 150 games a season, as does Lee. And if Lee does actually take a day off, are people honestly going to tell me that DeRosa will start at 1b over Daryle Ward?

 

I just don't see where DeRosa gets enough at bats filling this made up "super sub" position.

if fukudome can play CF he may end up there the majority of the time with Derosa in RF.

[DenverCubs]

Didn't Lou say Soriano is in his office the second he sees he's not playing?

 

Exactly my point. These guys are getting paid to play everyday and they pretty much want to be in there everyday. There are days off built into the schedule. Yes, occasionally there are long stretches of the season where you might want to rest a couple of the starters. In that case, take DeRosa out of the SS spot and move him around a little bit and give those players the necessary rest.

 

Lee won't be suspended and hopefully Soriano is over his leg injury. Typically, Soriano averages over 150 games a season, as does Lee. And if Lee does actually take a day off, are people honestly going to tell me that DeRosa will start at 1b over Daryle Ward?

 

I just don't see where DeRosa gets enough at bats filling this made up "super sub" position.

if fukudome can play CF he may end up there the majority of the time with Derosa in RF.

That seems like the best case...with a line-up of

Roberts

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Soriano

Kousuke

Soto

Theriot

 

not bad

[Guest]

Why bother keeping Pie if we're not going to play him?

[BigbadB]

Why bother keeping Pie if we're not going to play him?

 

Thank you.

 

Ryan Theriot is the weakest link.

[David]

Why bother keeping Pie if we're not going to play him?

 

 

If we got Roberts and Fukudome, I'd be really on board the Pie for Greene bandwagon.

 

I don't love the idea of going with DeRosa as the full time option in RF if we kept Theriot at SS, though.

[Guest]

With just Roberts and Kosuke coming on board with the current team, I'd say best case scenario looks like this:

 

2B (S) Roberts
SS (R) DeRosa
1B (R) Lee
RF (L) Kosuke
3B (R) Ramirez
LF (R) Soriano
C  (R) Soto
CF (L) Pie

That seems to satisfy the L/R fetish & OBP requirements as well as we can hope for. It would probably be this with those same players, though:

LF (R) Soriano
2B (S) Roberts
1B (R) Lee
RF (L) Kosuke
3B (R) Ramirez
SS (R) DeRosa
C  (R) Soto
CF (L) Pie

[David]

Are we really looking at Fukudome as a middle of the order hitter?

 

Not that lineup positioning matters all that much as long as your worst guys are at the bottom, but it really "feels" like he should be more of a 2 hitter than anything else.

[David]

With just Roberts and Kosuke coming on board with the current team, I'd say best case scenario looks like this:

 

2B (S) Roberts
SS (R) DeRosa
1B (R) Lee
RF (L) Kosuke
3B (R) Ramirez
LF (R) Soriano
C  (R) Soto
CF (L) Pie

That seems to satisfy the L/R fetish & OBP requirements as well as we can hope for. It would probably be this with those same players, though:

LF (R) Soriano
2B (S) Roberts
1B (R) Lee
RF (L) Kosuke
3B (R) Ramirez
SS (R) DeRosa
C  (R) Soto
CF (L) Pie

 

 

Tim, you really think they'd start DeRo at SS in that scenario? I sure hope so...

[biittner77]

The addition of Roberts alone at least eliminates the temptation to have Pie lead off. That in itself has to have some value. I'd hate to see the Cubs try to turn him into Brett Butler.

[Mephistopheles]

I would be ecstatic if Pie became as good as Brett Butler.

[soapy]

Why bother keeping Pie if we're not going to play him?

 

Thank you.

 

Ryan Theriot is the weakest link.

 

well ideally derosa plays ss, with pie in cf. i just don't see that happening. it's probably more likely that Pie gets traded for an upgrade at ss, but i won't hold my breath on that either.

 

essentially, you could replace Pie's bat with Derosa's while upgrading at SS by trading Pie (theoretically, of course).

[Mephistopheles]

in reality too, and you guys know who...

[TheDude]

Considering the cubs financial obligations, i guess i can understand not going for a big name, but getting 2 marginal upgrades on the field while doing nearly nothing to the rotation does not seem like a "Plan for Winning" to me.

 

 

Call me skeptical....

 

I don't get the thinking that anything more than marginal upgrades is truly available. People can throw out names of upgrades, but if those players aren't truly available, it's just xbox nonsense.

 

Besides Cabrera and Rodriguez, what significant upgrade names are/were truly out there to be had? And are/were they worth the handful of MLB talent prospects the club has (or do the Cubs even have what it takes)?

 

My point is this: if Hendry can't acquire one of the handful of names that represent significant upgrades, then he is best served making marginal upgrades in several places.

 

By adding Roberts and Fukudome, using DeRosa at 400+ ABs as a supersub, and giving the Catching duties to Soto, you've made upgrades in 4 places from the division winning team of last year and you've held onto your top young MLB-level talent in Hill, Marmol, and Pie.

 

It's not grade A off season, but it's not a failure either if it happens this way.

[Bull]

Didn't Lou say Soriano is in his office the second he sees he's not playing?

 

Exactly my point. These guys are getting paid to play everyday and they pretty much want to be in there everyday. There are days off built into the schedule. Yes, occasionally there are long stretches of the season where you might want to rest a couple of the starters. In that case, take DeRosa out of the SS spot and move him around a little bit and give those players the necessary rest.

 

Lee won't be suspended and hopefully Soriano is over his leg injury. Typically, Soriano averages over 150 games a season, as does Lee. And if Lee does actually take a day off, are people honestly going to tell me that DeRosa will start at 1b over Daryle Ward?

 

I just don't see where DeRosa gets enough at bats filling this made up "super sub" position.

 

Lee won't be suspended, and Soriano should be over his leg injury. But something else will happen. Pie will tear his ACL ala C-Pat, Ramirez will miss significant time with a worsening back injury, Lee will break his other wrist, derosa will lose his knee ala Billy Meuller, Fukudome will cuzz out an ump in Japanese and be suspended

 

whatever.

 

There's nothing wrong with having too many good players, and a guy like derosa allows you to have that one extra guy who hits well with fewer AB's and does well with lots of at bats. Sign a new 2B, SS, and RF for all I care...just get good players.

 

That said, I agree SS should be the priority.

[David]

I'm not big on stolen bases whatsoever, but at his success rate (80% career, 88% last year), wouldn't Roberts' SB contribution be a somewhat significant factor in terms of improving our offense next year?