MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[Guest]

Problem with that type of scenario is that no major league team has five 40 man roster spots just hanging around.

[cbbryan]

Problem with that type of scenario is that no major league team has five 40 man roster spots just hanging around.

 

I hadn't thought about that. Let the O's worry about that, Tim! LOL!

 

How many openings to the O's have? If it was good enough talent wouldn't the O's just remove someone from the 40 man?

 

I'm just thinking out loud.

[Mephistopheles]

Keys to a Successful Off-Season.

 

1. Get a real SS.

2. Get a real RF.

3. Get a real CF.

 

How to go about doing this:

 

1. Sign Kosuke Fukudome

2. Sign Milton Bradley

3. Trade for Felix Pie for Khalil Greene

 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f189/kctigers23/StampofApprovalSmall.png

 

1. Alfonso Soriano, LF

2. Kosuke Fukudome, CF/RF

3. Derrek Lee, 1B

4. Aramis Ramirez, 3B

5. Milton Bradley, RF/CF

6. Mark DeRosa, 2B

7. Geovany Soto, C

8. Khalil Greene, SS

 

I'd go to war with that.

[cbbryan]

Keys to a Successful Off-Season.

 

1. Get a real SS.

2. Get a real RF.

3. Get a real CF.

 

How to go about doing this:

 

1. Sign Kosuke Fukudome

2. Sign Milton Bradley

3. Trade for Felix Pie for Khalil Greene

 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f189/kctigers23/StampofApprovalSmall.png

 

1. Alfonso Soriano, LF

2. Kosuke Fukudome, CF/RF

3. Derrek Lee, 1B

4. Aramis Ramirez, 3B

5. Milton Bradley, RF/CF

6. Mark DeRosa, 2B

7. Geovany Soto, C

8. Khalil Greene, SS

 

I'd go to war with that.

 

I like it all except trading Pie for Greene. I don't mind Greene. I mind trading Pie.

[Mephistopheles]

pie blows get over him.

[Clem Fandango]

Am I crazy? Probably!

 

Yeah, you are, lol. Seriously though, that's a hefty offer, but the O's will not trade Bedard AND Tejada to us without us likely throwing them Rich Hill and Felix Pie. And if we offer them a package without them, it most likely will have to include Marmol.

 

I don't see the O's asking for anything other than those three players. I don't even think Hill, Pie, and Marmol get it done. Personally though, I'm not sold on Bedard's health plus Tejada is clearly starting to decline a bit in his skill set. Bedard showed this year that he's still got injury issues, the last thing I'd want is to trade top notch players we could've used and get players back who can't play a full season and continue to decline. Tejada is exiting his prime now, and it's obvious. I think they're overvalued because of Tejada's name & past and Bedard's one great year.

 

FWIW, DeRosa was brought up as a SS 8-[

Edited December 6, 2007 by The Logan

[Mephistopheles]

alternatively you can say we don't need a SS and get a real back of the rotation guy instead.

 

That is trade the Pie, Marshall, Murton and insert whoever they want from our system guy for Mr. Lincecum.

[mdwilla]

Pie just seems to high a price for Greene. If they have to move Prior I have a feeling they could do worse than Greene and a Prospect.

[Anomalied]

I'd offer Marshall, Patterson, and Cedeno. Take it or leave it. Roberts is a nice upgrade, but not worth the likes of Hill, Pie, Marmol, or even Gallagher.

 

1. Brian Roberts (2B)

2. Kosuke Fukudome (RF)

3. Derrek Lee (1B)

4. Aramis Ramirez (3B)

5. Alfonso Soriano (LF)

6. Mark DeRosa (SS)

7. Geovany Soto ©

8. Felix Pie (CF)

[cbbryan]

pie blows get over him.

 

 

How would anyone know? It's not like he's had a couple months to play.

 

I'd be willing to give up on him if the Cubs were willing to give him the opportunity to play for a couple months and he proved he couldn't play.

 

I believe Pie will excel at the ML level as he has at every other level if the Cubs make a commitment to let him play and develop.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'd happily trade Pie and Hill as part of a package if it netted us Tejada and Bedard in return.

 

Bedard>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hill.

[craig]

I know this is heresy to be positive or enthusiastic etc., but I very much like the idea of pursuing and getting Roberts, and potentially doing so for 2-3 guys who are nice prospects and might be very productive, but who have some questions marks at present and stand as peripheral players for us, ie are not guys we can't live without. Cedeno, Murton, and Marshall for Roberts? I'd go for that, because I think that Roberts is overall a very good player.

 

I like Murton, but to my eye he's a poor fielder, and while Soriano has many faults, I think Soriano is better than Murton. With LF blocked and no NL DH, Murton doesn't fit. (I don't like his defense in right).

 

I'm hopeful that Cedeno will turn into a pretty solid SS. But he makes a lot of errors, and sometimes looks lazy and dumb. Not sure he'd end up being the SS we want even if we keep him.

 

Roberts seems pretty nice as a guy who fields pretty well, runs well, has a good OBP, etc.. I like the SB, I think it's exciting and can help you score runs. I'm well cognizant that it's value is limited by the CS, but Roberts has asset ratios.

 

And I very much like the idea of having a DeRosa-caliber hitter available on the bench. Benches typically get >1000 AB's. If 400 of them are going to DeRosa rather than an Omar Infante/Neifi/Macias/Cedeno type hitter, that's a huge asset.

 

I would imagine that if they were to acquire both Roberts and Fukudome, I'd guess Soriano would remain leadoff, and Lou would sequence them:

 

Soriano-Roberts-Lee-Aram-Fukudome-Soto-Pie-Theriot. That would break up the righties (Lee and Aram only back-to-back), and keep the speed that Lou likes at the front of the order. Could be a good lineup.

 

I'd be pretty enthused about that.

[Mephistopheles]

gallagher is also spare parts. you can find guys like gallagher growing on trees.

[Clem Fandango]

pie blows get over him.

 

Khalil Greene was Neifi Perez + HR's last year.

 

EDIT: Oh, and About 80 more K's

Edited December 6, 2007 by The Logan

[Mephistopheles]

dont talk to me like i dont know anything. i know exactly what greene is, was, and will probably be. and all of those are better than pie. i follow the minors and draft as much as anybody on this board and i can tell how much most posters overrate their prospects way tooo much. the pie and gallagher love here is nearly indentical to nyy love for melky cabrera.

 

only you guys cant see it.

[Clem Fandango]

dont talk to me like i dont know anything. i know exactly what greene is, was, and will probably be.

 

I think most people do. But you act like Pie is yesterday's left overs and equate his value to that of Khalil Greene, which is ridiculous.

 

EDIT: Maybe in the future when we get to see what Pie is capable of he ends up putting up similar numbers to Greene, which would make it an equal comparison, but right now Pie can net us a player MUCH better than Greene

Edited December 6, 2007 by The Logan

[Mephistopheles]

it isnt ridiculous and i can debate it all night long.

[Anomalied]

pie blows get over him.

#-o

 

I hope you're being sarcastic. How can you base whether or not a player "blows" on less than 200 AB? His early struggles mean next to nothing. He's still our top prospect.

[rocket]

pie blows get over him.

 

Khalil Greene was Neifi Perez + HR's last year.

 

EDIT: Oh, and About 80 more K's

 

i don't think there's much wrong with having a shortstop who plays great defense and hits homeruns, even with a low obp.

[Clem Fandango]

it isnt ridiculous and i can debate it all night long.

 

I don't have a lot of time left to talk cause I gotta get to bed, but I'd love to be sold on why Khalil Greene is better and more valuable than Felix Pie.

[cbbryan]

pie blows get over him.

#-o

 

I hope you're being sarcastic. How can you base whether or not a player "blows" on less than 200 AB? His early struggles mean next to nothing. He's still our top prospect.

 

He pays attention to the minor/draft therefore he knows Pie will blow.

 

I find that funny since Pie has done very well at a young age at every level. Certainly he could do better on plate discipline, but I don't think you can deny the fact that the kid can hit and play D.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I can see being down on Pie, but I don't understand hating Pie and simultaneously pushing Khalil X. Both have light on base skills with good power and elite defense for their position.

[Clem Fandango]

pie blows get over him.

 

Khalil Greene was Neifi Perez + HR's last year.

 

EDIT: Oh, and About 80 more K's

 

i don't think there's much wrong with having a shortstop who plays great defense and hits homeruns, even with a low obp.

 

I'm not taking anything away from his SS defense, it's great don't get me wrong, but Greene never hit more than 20HR in any season, MLB or MiLB till this year. I'm sure if he weren't in SD he'd have had a dozen more HR and that's great and all but that OBP really hurts. He had 44 doubles, 3 triples, and 27HR and still managed to have an OPS+ of exactly 100, for a .759OPS.

 

I'll take that at the bottom of the order, and at a cheaper price, in a heartbeat, but my befuddlement comes in why Pie is only worth Greene when Pie can develop into an above average offensive player (and everyone seems to think so, scouts and analysts included), while Khalil Greene is barely making the league average.

[cbbryan]

I can see being down on Pie, but I don't understand hating Pie and simultaneously pushing Khalil X. Both have light on base skills with good power and elite defense for their position.

 

 

I view Pie as having more potential though. Not that I dislike Greene at all. I just don't see trading Pie for him.

 

Secondly, with all the other "spare parts" why not trade a couple for Greene rather then trade Pie?!?!

[inari]

But Greene's offense is far more valuable considering his position. I'm not advocating a Pie-Greene swap, but I see where Meph's coming from.