Terry Ryan stepping down as Twins GM

[DiamondMind]

Santana was a rule 5 draft pick right? Hard for anyone, even the team acquiring him, to imagine he'd turn into what he has.

 

And I agree with meph, Liriano was just handed to them and Mauer was an easy a decision as a franchise can make. What, pass on the home town boy for a socal pitcher that doesnt want to sign?

Edited September 13, 2007 by DiamondMind

[Mephistopheles]

Ive always believed that he got lucky with Liriano, Mauer and Santana. They all fell into his lap and a lot of the success he had as GM was because of them.

If you include Liriano, you have to include Nathan and Bonser.

 

and garza among others

 

Ive always believed that he got lucky with Liriano, Mauer and Santana. They all fell into his lap and a lot of the success he had as GM was because of them.

 

Their success started long before Mauer made an impact. Not sure how Santana fell into his lap, they traded for him when he was young and far from a proven commodity.

 

they got lucky....very very lucky. ryan has even been quoted as saying he got lucky on Santana. And before these guys fell into his lap he was finishing last or second to last for half a decade with a top five pick every season so I would like to think he could build a good system if hes getting top five picks year in and year out. He also plays in a division where there werent many good teams and there werent any big spenders until the last couple of seasons with the exception of the mid 90s tribe and the twins sucked then. he only had success when things fell into his lap and everyone else in the division sucked.

 

Lets not forget that two of the rocks his entire tenure there, Hunter and Radke weren't acquired when he was GM.

 

Lets not forget before Mauer none of his first round picks during the suck years even amounted to much. Mark Redman and Michael Cuddyer are average players at best.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Mephistopheles

[hawkeyecub]

Terry Ryan would be almost as maddening as Hendry for many of the folks here. He's essentially a better version of the same profile.

 

Yeah I think a lot of the people who are coveting him don't have a firm grasp of his philosophy. As someone who pays close attention to the Twins, I agree with you.

Very concerned about doing the little things the right way, putting the ball in play, situational hitting, values a lot of mediocre veterans, toolsy guys who can play defense, etc.

 

However it is hard to argue with the results vs. their payroll. If he had $100M and could go after a big bat or two to compliment what they've developed in-house, who knows. He gets a lot of the credit for their scouting and development system.

 

Who says just because he has 100 mil to play with he would be any better than he is now. I"m of the belief that big payrools hurt guys like Hendry and Ryan. There is too much emphasis on win now to accept a down year from every once in a while. He woudl be stuck every year trading away his best prospects for aging players.

 

The Yankees are the perfect example of this. Only recently did Cashman convince Steinbrenner to allow him to keep his young guys to help keep the team good for the future.

 

True, good point.

 

It does allow more room for error though and having the flexibility to add just one big bat and another average one at 3B could have put them over the top.

 

Their window of opportunity is starting to close a little bit. You can argue that they would have been better served by trading away some of their arms for a big bat and having a real good chance at winning the WS.

 

As it was due to the payroll constraints, he held on to everyone. Now it looks like Torii will walk this year (no he's not great, but in that lineup he's huge) and Johan will either be traded at the deadline if they're out of it or allowed to walk for a draft pick next November.

[rawaction]

Ive always believed that he got lucky with Liriano, Mauer and Santana. They all fell into his lap and a lot of the success he had as GM was because of them.

If you include Liriano, you have to include Nathan and Bonser.

 

and garza among others

 

Ive always believed that he got lucky with Liriano, Mauer and Santana. They all fell into his lap and a lot of the success he had as GM was because of them.

 

Their success started long before Mauer made an impact. Not sure how Santana fell into his lap, they traded for him when he was young and far from a proven commodity.

 

they got lucky....very very lucky. ryan has even been quoted as saying he got lucky on Santana. And before these guys fell into his lap he was finishing last or second to last for half a decade with a top five pick every season so I would like to think he could build a good system if hes getting top five picks year in and year out. He also plays in a division where there werent many good teams and there werent any big spenders until the last couple of seasons with the exception of the mid 90s tribe and the twins sucked then. he only had success when things fell into his lap and everyone else in the division sucked.

 

Lets not forget that two of the rocks his entire tenure there, Hunter and Radke weren't acquired when he was GM.

 

Lets not forget before Mauer none of his first round picks during the suck years even amounted to much. Mark Redman and Michael Cuddyer are average players at best.

 

How does that compare w/ Hendry? They haven't had as much success as the Twins, despite having top picks just as many times. Prior fell into the Cubs lap. Lee and Ramirez (and their salaries) were dumped into Hendry's lap.

 

Hell, every GM has been lucky in some regard.

[Mephistopheles]

where am i saying anything positive about hendry? im not. im just saying there's little reason to believe that Ryan is one of the top three GMs like most people believe. Hendry has nothing to do with it. Don't bring him up. He is irrelevant.

[rawaction]

where am i saying anything positive about hendry? im not. im just saying there's little reason to believe that Ryan is one of the top three GMs like most people believe. Hendry has nothing to do with it. Don't bring him up. He is irrelevant.

 

The discussion you jumped in on was Tim's comment about people frustrated with Hendry not liking Ryan.

 

Terry Ryan would be almost as maddening as Hendry for many of the folks here. He's essentially a better version of the same profile.

[Guest]

Santana was a rule 5 draft pick right? Hard for anyone, even the team acquiring him, to imagine he'd turn into what he has.

 

And I agree with meph, Liriano was just handed to them and Mauer was an easy a decision as a franchise can make. What, pass on the home town boy for a socal pitcher that doesnt want to sign?

 

Yes, Johan was a Rule 5 pick.

[Mephistopheles]

no, i just said i dont want ryan. i didnt respond to anything until people talked about prior. i just said that guys fell into his lap. then we talked about his success before mauer.

 

the cubs werent involved.

[rawaction]

no, i just said i dont want ryan. i didnt respond to anything until people talked about prior. i just said that guys fell into his lap. then we talked about his success before mauer.

 

the cubs werent involved.

 

fine. But don't bother telling me what I can and can't bring up.

[Mephistopheles]

if you make an argument with something that's irrelevant i can certainly tell you it is irrelevant.

[VanceJergins]

if you make an argument with something that's irrelevant i can certainly tell you it is irrelevant.

 

You said Ryan was lucky, he made the argument that all GM's get lucky, including Hendry....How's that irrelevant?

[NCCubFan]

if you make an argument with something that's irrelevant i can certainly tell you it is irrelevant.

But you can't tell him what he can or can't bring up. Just because you believe something is irrelevant doesn't mean others can't mention it. And especially don't go telling a moderator what he can and can't bring up. That won't help your life expectancy on this board any.

[NCCubFan]

Terry Ryan would be almost as maddening as Hendry for many of the folks here. He's essentially a better version of the same profile.

 

I'm not sure if it's luck or what, but Ryan's better at the same philosophy. If the Cubs were a little better over Hendry's regime, they would have had more success. I think a little can go a long way. Of course, it would help if the Cubs could produce Mauer, Morneau, Santana, Garza, etc.

 

Well the Cubs could've had Mauer instead of Prior...:P

 

How?

 

Uh..yeah nevermind...I was thinking the Cubs had passed on Mauer for Prior...it was the Twins passing on Prior for Mauer, wasn't it?

Yes. The Twins had the first pick and the Cubs were second. The Twins chose Mauer over Prior because they thought they'd be more likely to be able to sign Mauer and because Mauer was local.

[treebird]

if you make an argument with something that's irrelevant i can certainly tell you it is irrelevant.

But you can't tell him what he can or can't bring up. Just because you believe something is irrelevant doesn't mean others can't mention it. And especially don't go telling a moderator what he can and can't bring up. That won't help your life expectancy on this board any.

 

do you really think he was ordering him to not discuss it? of course he wasn't, he was just telling him that he didn't think it was germane to the conversation.

 

LoK has been fine lately, people are just in his face trying to run him out of here lately. i hope it doesn't happen, he's one of the few people i really feel like i learn stuff from around here.

[nilodnayr]

Terry Ryan would be almost as maddening as Hendry for many of the folks here. He's essentially a better version of the same profile.

 

I'm not sure if it's luck or what, but Ryan's better at the same philosophy. If the Cubs were a little better over Hendry's regime, they would have had more success. I think a little can go a long way. Of course, it would help if the Cubs could produce Mauer, Morneau, Santana, Garza, etc.

 

Well the Cubs could've had Mauer instead of Prior...:P

 

How?

 

Uh..yeah nevermind...I was thinking the Cubs had passed on Mauer for Prior...it was the Twins passing on Prior for Mauer, wasn't it?

Yes. The Twins had the first pick and the Cubs were second. The Twins chose Mauer over Prior because they thought they'd be more likely to be able to sign Mauer and because Mauer was local.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mauer wasn't the consensus #2 pick. Who knows if the cubs would have taken him if Prior was off the board. I think thats what Rais is saying.

[NCCubFan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mauer wasn't the consensus #2 pick. Who knows if the cubs would have taken him if Prior was off the board. I think thats what Rais is saying.

You're right about that. Texeira would have likely been considered as well.

[the splendid splinter]

Prior and his agent told the Twins not to select him and with Mauer being a local and signable became the logical choice for the Twins. Also Ryan being lucky can be questioned also, 1989 draft which Ryan was in charge as scouting director for the Twins, netted 2 rookies of the yr which included Chuck Knoblauch and Marty Cordova, it also two pitchers that won over 100 career games as pitchers in Denny Naegle and Scott Erickson. It also Mike Trombley who pitched well over 10 yrs and succesful and solid utility player for many years and 52nd round Denny Hocking, so luck? I dont think so, very good talent evaluator as a scout, YES!

[TruffleShuffle]

Only recently did Cashman convince Steinbrenner to allow him to keep his young guys to help keep the team good for the future.

 

not really... steinbrenner is in such poor health that he's not really able to make decisions about the yankees. It's basically Cashman running the team with oversight by steinbrenner's son hal

[CuseCubFan69]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mauer wasn't the consensus #2 pick. Who knows if the cubs would have taken him if Prior was off the board. I think thats what Rais is saying.

You're right about that. Texeira would have likely been considered as well.

 

I wonder if Prior pitched for another organization if he would have remained healthy? I realize we'll never know.