Piniella Dumb Decisions Thread

[Guest]

Saving Zambrano for game four was without question one of the stupidest thing I have seen this post-season. You can't save a pitcher to throw for a game that didn't exist then and still doesn't exist. What good is saving Zambrano if the Cubs lose on Saturday?

 

Post-season baseball is about winning the game at hand and NOT thinking about the immediate future.

It's not like he replaced Zambrano with Marquis. Marmol has been lights out all year, and there's no reason to think he couldn't have pitched good innings in relief. We lost game one because we scored one run on 4 hits.

 

It's a tie game, Lou only trusts 2 guys in his pen. Assuming Marmol and Howry do well, they probably go for a combined 2-3 innings, Lou has to turn the pen over to Dempster who he doesn't trust. The decision to take out Z after 6 had multiple holes in it...Z was cruising and could have gone 1 inning and not really hurt himself for game 4, you're playing for a game that might not exist and the earlier you go to the bullpen, the earlier you get to the weak guys in the pen.

 

And I don't care that the Cubs had the advantage in the matchups in games 2 - 4. We saw what that meant yesterday - and we saw what it meant in 2003 with Prior and Wood in games 6 and 7. Take advantage of the game you can actually win then and there in a short series.

 

I disagree. I think Lou trusts Wood too. And if we get the lead, he's not going to go to anyone other than Dempster, so whether or not he "trusts" him is irrelevant, he wasn't going to pitch Dempster if we were tied or behind - only if we had the lead; and if we had it, he wasn't going to go to anyone other than Dempster.

 

So he needed 2 IP out of Marmol, Wood, and Howry, figuring the offense scores at least 1 and Dempster gets the save in the 9th. No issues w/ that move.

 

I agree that he trusts Wood but I just have a feeling that in a tie game in extras, he goes to Dempster first.

 

Either way, point is moot if Marmol struggles with his command in the 8th instead of the 7th, but I'd rather get 1 more inning out of Z and then bring in the bullpen to keep the lesser parts of the pen further from the game.

[treebird]

i think it should be noted that, unless lou believes marmol is hurt or something, which he obviously doesn't since he made the move, he's going to a BETTER pitcher when he pulls zambrano. fresh marmol is definitely better than 7th inning Z, unless, again, you want to assume marmol is hurt and no longer himself or something.

 

i think there was nothing wrong with the move.

[Cubzfan64]

i think it should be noted that, unless lou believes marmol is hurt or something, which he obviously doesn't since he made the move, he's going to a BETTER pitcher when he pulls zambrano. fresh marmol is definitely better than 7th inning Z, unless, again, you want to assume marmol is hurt and no longer himself or something.

 

i think there was nothing wrong with the move.

 

I agree - if Marmol had performed up to his normal standards, none of this would be an issue. I don't fault Lou for the move (although it's a fair thing to question) - he had his own logic behind it.

 

Lou isn't the reason we've lost the first two games of the series.

[hawkeyecub]

i think it should be noted that, unless lou believes marmol is hurt or something, which he obviously doesn't since he made the move, he's going to a BETTER pitcher when he pulls zambrano. fresh marmol is definitely better than 7th inning Z, unless, again, you want to assume marmol is hurt and no longer himself or something.

 

i think there was nothing wrong with the move.

 

YES!!! Finally.

 

Z was cruising. But Marmol has been the better pitcher this year. He didn't take Z out for Dave Veres. It wasn't a bad move.

 

Of course Marmol was going to be just as bad in the 8th as he was in the 7th and our offense probably doesn't score again if we play 12 innings.

[jaxxradio]

Taking Z out was a stupid move for the reason Lou gave. Again.. the only reason why Lou took Z out in the first place was to rest him for game four. Well the Cubs are down 2-0 and to this point and game four is still non-existant. Keep in mind Z only threw 85 pitches in game one. He could have gone 1-2 more innings. You play for the present in post-season baseball, not the future.

 

It would be like me giving you guys $20 so you can buy a GI Joe with the Kung-Fu grip. Then you wait four days before buying it, thinking the store will have plenty in stock.. only to find out that they are sold out (I know the analogy is stupid, but you get the idea of what I am saying).

 

The point is.. in post-season baseball.. when the opportunity is there to get a win, grab it. Don't plan on something that might not ever happen.

[hawkeyecub]

Taking Z out was a stupid move for the reason Lou gave. Again.. the only reason why Lou took Z out in the first place was to rest him for game four. Well the Cubs are down 2-0 and to this point and game four is still non-existant. Keep in mind Z only threw 85 pitches in game one. He could have gone 1-2 more innings. You play for the present in post-season baseball, not the future.

 

It would be like me giving you guys $20 so you can buy a GI Joe with the Kung-Fu grip. Then you wait four days before buying it, thinking the store will have plenty in stock.. only to find out that they are sold out (I know the analogy is stupid, but you get the idea of what I am saying).

 

The point is.. in post-season baseball.. when the opportunity is there to get a win, grab it. Don't plan on something that might not ever happen.

 

It was not a bad move for the many reasons. I don't see how it hurt our chances of winning that game. Marmol has been the better option for 1-2 innings, was fresh and there was only one more game before another off day. Keeping Z in for one more inning wasn't an opportunity to grab the win.

The fact that he was going to be started on three days rest made it more logical.

[jaxxradio]

hawkeye.. what game is Z pitching?? Game four?? There isn't a game four as of right now. What if there isn't a game four after tomorrow?

 

My point is that Lou shouldn't be thinking about game four or any other game except the one he is currently managing. This guy has done a horse-sh*t job managing the series to this point.

 

In fairness it doesn't help when the offense has been shutdown by a very good Arizona pitching staff. Having said that.. the decisions Lou has made to this point STINK.

[treebird]

hawkeye.. what game is Z pitching?? Game four?? There isn't a game four as of right now. What if there isn't a game four after tomorrow?

 

My point is that Lou shouldn't be thinking about game four or any other game except the one he is currently managing. This guy has done a horse-sh*t job managing the series to this point.

 

In fairness it doesn't help when the offense has been shutdown by a very good Arizona pitching staff. Having said that.. the decisions Lou has made to this point STINK.

 

pulling z early allows him to be in better shape for his next start AND marmol fresh is better than carlos having thrown 85 pitches

 

he pulled z to go to a better pitcher, and allowed z to be in better shape for his next start. he accomplished two things at once, or at least he would have, if marmol hadn't sucked.

[Keener98]

hawkeye.. what game is Z pitching?? Game four?? There isn't a game four as of right now. What if there isn't a game four after tomorrow?

 

My point is that Lou shouldn't be thinking about game four or any other game except the one he is currently managing. This guy has done a horse-sh*t job managing the series to this point.

 

In fairness it doesn't help when the offense has been shutdown by a very good Arizona pitching staff. Having said that.. the decisions Lou has made to this point STINK.

 

pulling z early allows him to be in better shape for his next start AND marmol fresh is better than carlos having thrown 85 pitches

 

he pulled z to go to a better pitcher, and allowed z to be in better shape for his next start. he accomplished two things at once, or at least he would have, if marmol hadn't sucked.

 

Bullpen guys on any given day can struggle, so why go to the guy who hasnt thrown a pitch, over a guy who has only thrown 85 pitches and has retired 9 of the last 11. Z was cruising and is used to throwing 100+ pitches and still being very effective. Lou had to expect Marmol to be a little pumped up. Z is our best starter(no matter how much he struggled this year) and you go with your best guy who has been dominant already, over going to a guy who hasnt thrown a pitch yet that day.

 

And beyond that, the simple fact that Lou gave the reason for making the move was to save Z for game 4 is purely unbelievable. I mean if this was a 7 game series it would be a little different since a game 4 is guaranteed, but Lou was saving Z for something that wasnt a guarantee and thats purely idiotic plain and simple.

[Mizzou]

And beyond that, the simple fact that Lou gave the reason for making the move was to save Z for game 4 is purely unbelievable. I mean if this was a 7 game series it would be a little different since a game 4 is guaranteed, but Lou was saving Z for something that wasnt a guarantee and thats purely idiotic plain and simple.

Assuming your team is going to lose, which is what Piniella did, isn't exactly encouraging either.

[minnesotacubsfan]

And beyond that, the simple fact that Lou gave the reason for making the move was to save Z for game 4 is purely unbelievable. I mean if this was a 7 game series it would be a little different since a game 4 is guaranteed, but Lou was saving Z for something that wasnt a guarantee and thats purely idiotic plain and simple.

Assuming your team is going to lose, which is what Piniella did, isn't exactly encouraging either.

 

exactly. at that point, the cubs would have to loose AT LEAST one game to play game 4

 

it was a bad move

[badger1679666666]

Lou has been outmanaged this series. No question about it.

 

But he's not the reason we're down 2-0. He's an easy scapegoat, but people on this site give FAR too much importance to the manager.

 

We're down 2-0 because Marmol sucked, our offense sucks, and Lilly sucked.

[Soul]

Lou has been outmanaged this series. No question about it.

 

But he's not the reason we're down 2-0. He's an easy scapegoat, but people on this site give FAR too much importance to the manager.

 

We're down 2-0 because Marmol sucked, our offense sucks, and Lilly sucked.

 

Your players come through, you're a genius.

 

They suck, you've been outmanaged.

 

It's tough, none of us like to go through this crap again but I just don't feel like throwing Lou under the bus for it. I'm trying to keep an open perspective. It really hurts to blow up like this but I keep remembering that at the beginning of June this club looked like it would finish 10 games under .500

[Keener98]

I dont think anyone here is saying they think its Lous fault we lost. However its the managers job to put the team in the best position to win each game, and Lou hasnt done that at all, and is continuing to not do so by starting Kendall over the one guy who has decided to show up in the playoffs, Soto.

[kente777]

I dont think anyone here is saying they think its Lous fault we lost. However its the managers job to put the team in the best position to win each game, and Lou hasnt done that at all, and is continuing to not do so by starting Kendall over the one guy who has decided to show up in the playoffs, Soto.

 

Keep in mind that Soto is hitting .166 and I don't think he's thrown anybody out yet in this series. Ok, he did hit a home run, but I wouldn't say he's exactly tearin' it up.

 

Ok, he has shown more plate discipline, but it's not like he's 4 for 8. I don't think a Kendall or a Soto will be the factor in winning. It's the big 3. If they don't come through, we ain't goin' on.

[Tracer Bullet]

Taking Z out was a stupid move for the reason Lou gave. Again.. the only reason why Lou took Z out in the first place was to rest him for game four. Well the Cubs are down 2-0 and to this point and game four is still non-existant. Keep in mind Z only threw 85 pitches in game one. He could have gone 1-2 more innings. You play for the present in post-season baseball, not the future.

 

It would be like me giving you guys $20 so you can buy a GI Joe with the Kung-Fu grip. Then you wait four days before buying it, thinking the store will have plenty in stock.. only to find out that they are sold out (I know the analogy is stupid, but you get the idea of what I am saying).

 

The point is.. in post-season baseball.. when the opportunity is there to get a win, grab it. Don't plan on something that might not ever happen.

 

But again - putting Marmol in isn't conceding the game. It's turning the game over to 2/3 guys to get you 3 solid innings. With Marmol, Howry, Wood, and Dempster fresh, that's not a bad move. There was no win just sitting out there that Lou gave up.

 

A bad result doesn't mean it was a bad decision. Again, if Z gives up the HR in the 7th, Lou's a goat for not pulling him and going to our stud reliever. Or if Z throws 100 pitches, and we get to Game 4 down 1-2 and Z gets blown out, Lou's a goat for not thinking ahead. A bad result doesn't mean it was a bad decision.

[imb]

hawkeye.. what game is Z pitching?? Game four?? There isn't a game four as of right now. What if there isn't a game four after tomorrow?

 

My point is that Lou shouldn't be thinking about game four or any other game except the one he is currently managing. This guy has done a horse-sh*t job managing the series to this point.

 

In fairness it doesn't help when the offense has been shutdown by a very good Arizona pitching staff. Having said that.. the decisions Lou has made to this point STINK.

 

pulling z early allows him to be in better shape for his next start AND marmol fresh is better than carlos having thrown 85 pitches

 

he pulled z to go to a better pitcher, and allowed z to be in better shape for his next start. he accomplished two things at once, or at least he would have, if marmol hadn't sucked.

 

agreed completely.

 

at first i hated the move, but looking back on it, it was a pretty solid move and if it worked out we'd be crawling over each other to (kiss) lou

[Guest]

Yes, Marmol in the 7th is better than Z in the 7th. But you're allowing the pen to come in early and allowing the weaker parts of the pen to come in earlier than you have to if the game remains 1-1. That's my problem with the decision.

[Coach C]

Starting Kendall over Soto in game 3, whereas Soto is one of the Cub players who is actually producing.

[hardcorecubfan]

fontenot for pinch hitting

[Coach C]

Even with the dumb decisions, is it Lou's fault for going 2 for 10? 0 for 9? 2 for 8? (These numbers before Game 3)

 

Look, Lou has made some questionable decisions, but when it all boils down, it's the players production.

 

The people responsible is Soriano, Lee, and Ramirez. When the Cubs needed them the most, they did not respond. Looks like they mastered the School of Alex Rodriguez Post-Season Performance.

[Keener98]

Boy, I sure am glad Z is going to be extra rested for next year. Way to save him for an imaginary game 4 Lou, brilliant.

[Keener98]

Even with the dumb decisions, is it Lou's fault for going 2 for 10? 0 for 9? 2 for 8? (These numbers before Game 3)

 

Look, Lou has made some questionable decisions, but when it all boils down, it's the players production.

 

The people responsible is Soriano, Lee, and Ramirez. When the Cubs needed them the most, they did not respond. Looks like they mastered the School of Alex Rodriguez Post-Season Performance.

 

I think you forgot to mention that our starting pitchers minus Z are very responsible. Hill and Lilly were pathetic

[hardcorecubfan]

Not playing fontenot more down the stretch if you weregoing to use him in a critical situation and not teaching Lily to bunt properly.

 

Trading Augi :oops:

[minnesotacubsfan]

Boy, I sure am glad Z is going to be extra rested for next year. Way to save him for an imaginary game 4 Lou, brilliant.

 

hes gotta lottta towel exercises coming up