Soriano will return to the leadoff spot upon his return.

[Skyballer]

Cubs.com[/url]"]Ryan Theriot is thriving in the leadoff spot but when Alfonso Soriano returns, he'll be back at the top of the Cubs' order, Piniella said.

Piniella is an idiot.

[David]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

[Skyballer]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

This gets quoted a million times with no proof or evidence.

[Irrelevant Dude]

I say we stick Soriano in the 5 spot and leave him there, no moving him back to leadoff when he goes hitless for 2 games. He's had plenty of hitless streaks in the leadoff spot as well.

[Skyballer]

I say we stick Soriano in the 5 spot and leave him there, no moving him back to leadoff when he goes hitless for 2 games. He's had plenty of hitless streaks in the leadoff spot as well.

:idea:

[David]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

This gets quoted a million times with no proof or evidence.

 

Bill James

[Skyballer]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

This gets quoted a million times with no proof or evidence.

 

Bill James

Link #-o

[JGalt73]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

This gets quoted a million times with no proof or evidence.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3766

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/constructing-lineups/

[MikeyLikesCubbies]

As much as I hoped this wouldn't be the case, it's not like it's a surprise.

[David]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

This gets quoted a million times with no proof or evidence.

 

Bill James

Link #-o

 

I don't have a link. I read the books.

 

Essentially, lineup order has a minimal effect on the total runs a lineup would score. The main concern, obviously, is having the right people in the lineup. Where they are positioned doesn't mean that much. Logically, you would want your better hitters toward the top of the order (and your worst hitters at the bottom) because the hitters at the top inevitably will get the most at bats, but over the course of the season, the order means little in terms of traditional ideas regarding lineup construction (i.e. having a "leadoff" guy, a "number 2" hitter, etc.).

[Mephistopheles]

the difference between the optimal lineup (basically descending OBP 1-9) and the least optimal lineup (basically ascending OBP 1-9) is like 30 runs over the course of a season, iirc. Since no managers EVER do the extremes, it really is irrelevant.

[Electron Blue]

the difference between the optimal lineup (basically descending OBP 1-9) and the least optimal lineup (basically ascending OBP 1-9) is like 30 runs over the course of a season, iirc. Since no managers EVER do the extremes, it really is irrelevant.

 

i thought it was about 10 (or 1 win)?

[Skyballer]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

This gets quoted a million times with no proof or evidence.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3766

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/constructing-lineups/

if you read that of bp you'll notice that power hitters should not lead off :idea:

Case in point: Sori should bat fifth with Riot leading off.

[Sammy Sofa]

Meh. I just want him back in the lineup. Bat Theriot #2 and win games.

 

Can you please shrink that damn sig?

Edited August 20, 2007 by Sammy Sofa

[Electron Blue]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

This gets quoted a million times with no proof or evidence.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3766

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/constructing-lineups/

if you read that of bp you'll notice that power hitters should not lead off :idea:

Case in point: Sori should bat fifth with Riot leading off.

 

No, not that they should not. Just that the value of thei extra PAs (and Sori would get roughly another 80 over a full year) would be nullified by the lack runners on-base. Not quite the same.

[David]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

This gets quoted a million times with no proof or evidence.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3766

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/constructing-lineups/

if you read that of bp you'll notice that power hitters should not lead off :idea:

Case in point: Sori should bat fifth with Riot leading off.

 

The point isn't that there's no difference; it's that the difference between optimal and non-optimal lineups is almost completely insignificant and not worth worrying about.

[David]

Meh. I just want him back in the lineup. Bat Theriot #2 and win games.

 

Can you please shrink that damn sig?

 

At least it's not Chad Kroeger.

[ctcf]

Meh. I just want him back in the lineup. Bat Theriot #2 and win games.

 

Can you please shrink that damn sig?

 

At least it's not Chad Kroeger.

 

lawl

[CubColtPacer]

Here's a link to another study:

 

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~mbodell/battingOrder2001.html

 

Basically it shows that a team should put their top OPS guys at the top and then work their way down to make the optimal lineup, followed closely by taking top OBP and working their way down. It's only done on the Blue Jays of that year, but the data should be close for most teams.

 

I also don't understand why people have said Theriot has "made things happen" in the leadoff spot. Soriano has done everything Theriot has done out of that spot if you look at their stats in that spot. Both have hit for a high average, they've walked approximately the same amount in that spot, they both steal bases at a relatively high clip. What is Theriot doing that Soriano was not doing for those that want Theriot at #1?

[Sammy Sofa]

Theriot has sent the grit and hustle levels through the roof.

[NewUserName]

This move is a surprise to you?

 

All in all, it doesn't really matter. Lineup order is almost entirely irrelevant (barring extreme examples).

This gets quoted a million times with no proof or evidence.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3766

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/constructing-lineups/

if you read that of bp you'll notice that power hitters should not lead off :idea:

Case in point: Sori should bat fifth with Riot leading off.

 

 

Even with that the difference wasnt too extreme. If you factor in that for his career Soriano has hit significantly better as a Lead-off man than down lower in the order. That probably will equal out any difference of where he hits. Maybe a better solution is to bat Kendall 9th. :wink:

[RynoRules]

Cubs.com[/url]"]Ryan Theriot is thriving in the leadoff spot but when Alfonso Soriano returns, he'll be back at the top of the Cubs' order, Piniella said.

Piniella is an idiot.

 

Ironic statement.

[Careless]

the difference between the optimal lineup (basically descending OBP 1-9) and the least optimal lineup (basically ascending OBP 1-9) is like 30 runs over the course of a season, iirc. Since no managers EVER do the extremes, it really is irrelevant.

 

i thought it was about 10 (or 1 win)?

I think that's the difference between a bad lineup and a good lineup, instead of the worst lineup vs a good lineup.

[bc2k]

Instead of looking at James's macro theory and applying it to the Cubs, let's think independent at what's best for our team. Because the Cubs offense is lacking power, and Theriot has been successful in the leadoff spot, the Cubs offense might best perform with Soriano hitting 3,4 or 5.

[TheDude]

Theriot has sent the grit and hustle levels through the roof.

That's not going to change in the 2-spot.