Hendry shouldn't have signed Sorryano.....

[Rob]

There is no way Murton hits 30 homers a year except in AAA. Both are bad fielders, but Soriano has one of the best arms (when you look at power and accuracy) in the league. I think Soriano is more than a 30 homer guy too. Plus, Soriano can steal bases. The Cubs needed a leadoff man and they got one. Yes they terribly overpaid, but if the Cubs win the WS with Soriano's help no one will care.

 

1. There is no such thing as a "leadoff man" and if there were, Soriano would not be the ideal one.

 

2. Soriano is right around the breakeven rate for stolen bases this year, meaning that he's contributed about zero runs when you consider how many times he's been caught stealing.

 

3. Murton could hit 30 dingers if he just added some loft to his swing; he has about as much raw power as anybody on the team. Just watch him during BP.

 

4. Both are above average fielders, range wise. Don't let your memory fool you.

[Yestheydo]

If they hadn't gotten Soriano, they woulda brought back Pierre. End of discussion.

[Wilson A2000]

There is no way Murton hits 30 homers a year except in AAA. Both are bad fielders, but Soriano has one of the best arms (when you look at power and accuracy) in the league. I think Soriano is more than a 30 homer guy too. Plus, Soriano can steal bases. The Cubs needed a leadoff man and they got one. Yes they terribly overpaid, but if the Cubs win the WS with Soriano's help no one will care.

 

1. There is no such thing as a "leadoff man" and if there were, Soriano would not be the ideal one.

 

Actually there is. It's the player who bats first and leads off the game. Is he ideal? No. But he can't hit down in the order because he can't hit curveballs. This is proven. Accept it.

 

2. Soriano is right around the breakeven rate for stolen bases this year, meaning that he's contributed about zero runs when you consider how many times he's been caught stealing.

 

Check your stats. He has 18 SB and has been only caught 5 times. That's 78%.

 

3. Murton could hit 30 dingers if he just added some loft to his swing; he has about as much raw power as anybody on the team. Just watch him during BP.

 

Not many teams sign guys to big contracts who hit dingers in BP. Murton is a strong guy, but he has not shown that he can hit homeruns consistently in the big leagues. Go ahead, add some loft and see how many times you pop put. DLee said he thought of adding loft, but he knew better.

 

4. Both are above average fielders, range wise. Don't let your memory fool you.

 

I never said anything about range. Both guys have had trouble catching the ball once they get there. Soriano has a much better arm. I think Soriano has better range because he is faster. But even if I leave that out, Soriano is a better OF because he can throw people out. I think Murton has one career putout when he doubled that guy off of first early last year.

 

I am not bashing Murton. He is a decent bench player and utility OF. But that is all he will ever be.

[CubColtPacer]

There is no way Murton hits 30 homers a year except in AAA. Both are bad fielders, but Soriano has one of the best arms (when you look at power and accuracy) in the league. I think Soriano is more than a 30 homer guy too. Plus, Soriano can steal bases. The Cubs needed a leadoff man and they got one. Yes they terribly overpaid, but if the Cubs win the WS with Soriano's help no one will care.

 

1. There is no such thing as a "leadoff man" and if there were, Soriano would not be the ideal one.

 

Actually there is. It's the player who bats first and leads off the game. Is he ideal? No. But he can't hit down in the order because he can't hit curveballs. This is proven. Accept it.

 

2. Soriano is right around the breakeven rate for stolen bases this year, meaning that he's contributed about zero runs when you consider how many times he's been caught stealing.

 

Check your stats. He has 18 SB and has been only caught 5 times. That's 78%.

 

3. Murton could hit 30 dingers if he just added some loft to his swing; he has about as much raw power as anybody on the team. Just watch him during BP.

 

Not many teams sign guys to big contracts who hit dingers in BP. Murton is a strong guy, but he has not shown that he can hit homeruns consistently in the big leagues. Go ahead, add some loft and see how many times you pop put. DLee said he thought of adding loft, but he knew better.

 

4. Both are above average fielders, range wise. Don't let your memory fool you.

 

I never said anything about range. Both guys have had trouble catching the ball once they get there. Soriano has a much better arm. I think Soriano has better range because he is faster. But even if I leave that out, Soriano is a better OF because he can throw people out. I think Murton has one career putout when he doubled that guy off of first early last year.

 

I am not bashing Murton. He is a decent bench player and utility OF. But that is all he will ever be.

 

Just pointing out before somebody else does that Murton just threw somebody out at second base Thursday night.

[Wilson A2000]

He has 5 career putouts in 256 games. The point is that Soriano has a better, more accurate arm.

[NewUserName]

All the hyperbole aside, I agree with the original post. Not that Murton is better now. I think he is closer than some think and alot less money. I truly believe that Murton will be a .820-.850 OPS guy in a couple of years. Which is where Soriano will probably be also. The money would have been more wisely spent somewhere else. Of course I think Hendry really believed that Soriano was going to play CF.

[MPrior]

1. There is no such thing as a "leadoff man" and if there were, Soriano would not be the ideal one.

 

Actually there is. It's the player who bats first and leads off the game. Is he ideal? No. But he can't hit down in the order because he can't hit curveballs. This is proven. Accept it.

 

What twisted definition of "proof" are you using here? It may or may not be that Soriano has trouble hitting curveballs, and that may or may not be a reason why hitting lower in the order may or may not be difficult for him. If that's proof, then I guess you're right.

 

And you're ignoring Rob's point, which is a good one: a team never "needs" a leadoff hitter, because the only thing that really defines a leadoff hitter, as you said, is hitting in the leadoff spot - which is a useless tautology.

 

As far as this thread is concerned, I agree with the title - Hendry shouldn't have signed Soriano, at least for that money. He's not that big a bat, and his value is particularly low when he's in LF. Murton has nothing to do with it, really.

 

While I do think the original poster's comments regarding Murton are a bit silly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Murton outproduces Soriano over the course of his contract, though - Soriano's career line is .281/.327/.510, while Murton's is .297/.365/.452. Given Murton's superior OBP, the difference in their career numbers is very small, and Murton's entering his prime while Soriano is leaving his.

 

And - this is an honest question - does the CS stat include being picked off? Because every out that Soriano creates on the basebaths ought to be held against him if we're trying to assess the usefulness of his stolen bases.

[TruffleShuffle]

And - this is an honest question - does the CS stat include being picked off?

 

yes

[frostwyrm]

I also agree with the sentiment of the thread title. For the current season Soriano is ranked 11th among 19 qualifying LF's in OPS according to ESPN's stats, so it's debatable whether he's even better than average for his position. His career OPS is only .837, and he turns 32 next January. I said back when Soriano signed that this would probably land on the short list of the worst contracts in the history of pro sports and I still think that's true.

[Ender]

Soriano is a fine signing, the contract just wasn't good. Too many $$'s and too many years.

[Derwood]

All in favor of a mandatory IQ test prior to being allowed to post on NSBB, say I.

 

can I get grandfathered in?

[jaydee]

murton the equal of soriano? yah, and im sleeping with jessica alba

[jaydee]

All the hyperbole aside, I agree with the original post. Not that Murton is better now. I think he is closer than some think and alot less money. I truly believe that Murton will be a .820-.850 OPS guy in a couple of years. Which is where Soriano will probably be also. The money would have been more wisely spent somewhere else. Of course I think Hendry really believed that Soriano was going to play CF.

 

if thats the case, why not just have murton in right, and soriano in left?

 

i wouldnt mind having the two as corner OFs with Pie in CF...not the best hitting OF ever, but murton and Pie are cheap and fairly good options

[Sosa21MVP]

murton the equal of soriano? yah, and im sleeping with jessica alba

 

be careful, word on the street is that Jeter gave her the herp.

[LetsPlayTwo]

Soriano is good and definitely not equal to Murton, but I wish the Cubs had broken the bank on someone younger and better such as Vlad or Beltran (even though he's been injured)

[Tracer Bullet]

He has 5 career putouts in 256 games. The point is that Soriano has a better, more accurate arm.

 

We're not really judging defense by outfield assists, are we?

[Tracer Bullet]

There is no way Murton hits 30 homers a year except in AAA. Both are bad fielders, but Soriano has one of the best arms (when you look at power and accuracy) in the league. I think Soriano is more than a 30 homer guy too. Plus, Soriano can steal bases. The Cubs needed a leadoff man and they got one. Yes they terribly overpaid, but if the Cubs win the WS with Soriano's help no one will care.

 

1. There is no such thing as a "leadoff man" and if there were, Soriano would not be the ideal one.

 

Actually there is. It's the player who bats first and leads off the game. Is he ideal? No. But he can't hit down in the order because he can't hit curveballs. This is proven. Accept it.

 

2. Soriano is right around the breakeven rate for stolen bases this year, meaning that he's contributed about zero runs when you consider how many times he's been caught stealing.

 

Check your stats. He has 18 SB and has been only caught 5 times. That's 78%.

 

3. Murton could hit 30 dingers if he just added some loft to his swing; he has about as much raw power as anybody on the team. Just watch him during BP.

 

Not many teams sign guys to big contracts who hit dingers in BP. Murton is a strong guy, but he has not shown that he can hit homeruns consistently in the big leagues. Go ahead, add some loft and see how many times you pop put. DLee said he thought of adding loft, but he knew better.

 

4. Both are above average fielders, range wise. Don't let your memory fool you.

 

I never said anything about range. Both guys have had trouble catching the ball once they get there. Soriano has a much better arm. I think Soriano has better range because he is faster. But even if I leave that out, Soriano is a better OF because he can throw people out. I think Murton has one career putout when he doubled that guy off of first early last year.

 

I am not bashing Murton. He is a decent bench player and utility OF. But that is all he will ever be.

 

A - isn't 77% the break-even point for SB%? If not, it's right around there. So I think Rob's stats are accurate.

 

B - At age 24, Murton put up a better than average OPS for an OF. Your conclusion statement is ridiculous.

[d_money]

I'd rather have Carlos Lee than Soriano. From that standpoint, it was a bad signing.

[JonnyRed]

Yeah, there's no correlation between the Cubs resurgance in June and the fact that Soriano was named player of the month. We all know that Hendry overpaid for Zo, but there is no questioning his talent.

[JonnyRed]

He has 5 career putouts in 256 games. The point is that Soriano has a better, more accurate arm.

 

We're not really judging defense by outfield assists, are we?

 

Aren't getting outs the objective for the defense?

[Soul]

Soriano was hot, we were surging. He got cold, we started to cool off too.

 

Then he got hurt, and now we're sliding in the standings.

 

No other analysis needed. Soriano performing well and in the lineup is a major plus for this team. Whether or not the contract was wise is another story and open for question, but let's not let it go too far. Look at this ballclub, we could really use Sori's bat right about now.

[Sammy Sofa]

Soriano was hot, we were surging. He got cold, we started to cool off too.

 

Then he got hurt, and now we're sliding in the standings.

 

No other analysis needed. Soriano performing well and in the lineup is a major plus for this team. Whether or not the contract was wise is another story and open for question, but let's not let it go too far. Look at this ballclub, we could really use Sori's bat right about now.

 

That's a bit too broad. Soriano had plenty of cold streaks/slumps/whatever you want to call them during the two months the Cubs were dominating because he is and always has been a very streaky hitter. Yes, he's missed now, but his injury combined with Lee's slump and Aramis being hurt/out is the much larger issue. If the latter two weren't happening, or even just one of them was mashing, Soriano's absence wouldn't be nearly as obvious.

[treebird]

Soriano was hot, we were surging. He got cold, we started to cool off too.

 

Then he got hurt, and now we're sliding in the standings.

 

No other analysis needed.

 

haha, not quite.

[Tracer Bullet]

He has 5 career putouts in 256 games. The point is that Soriano has a better, more accurate arm.

 

We're not really judging defense by outfield assists, are we?

 

Aren't getting outs the objective for the defense?

 

Well, getting outs/preventing runs, yes. But counting only outfield assists is a pretty terrible way to determine who has contributed most to that objective. I'd rather have an OF that can get to more balls and catch them or cut them off and hold a guy to a single than a guy that can't get to anything down the line or in the gap and is stuck trying to gun guys down at 2nd or 3rd. Not to mention my initial point, which was that judging arm strength/accuracy by outfield assists alone is not wise.

 

I'm not making any judgments about Soriano v. Murton in this context, I'm simply pointing out that if you're comparing two OFs defensively and your support for 1 over the other is more outfield assists...well, you haven't really supported your position very welll.

[Illini Iceman]

If Hendry hadn't signed Soriano the Cubs would be in probably fourth place with a losing record and people would be saying that if Hendry had just put down his doughnuts (or some other fat joke) and signed an impact player like Soriano the Cubs would have had a good chance of taking a very winnable Central Division.