BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! (Barroid 756)

[Derwood]

Hank Aaron had over 900 more total bases than Barry

[SouthSideRyan]

Hank Aaron had over 900 more total bases than Barry

 

Barry's been on base 550 more times in 1400 less PAs.

[Soul]

PLEASE STOP, Barry Bonds is the greatest player in the history of Baseball.

The only proof of Barry's alleged use of *I Won't say it*, can't be proven other than unintentional use.

Furthermore we don't know that these drugs help you hit HR.

JUST STOP.

 

what?

 

+1. Eh?

Case in point, it takes more than muscles to hit Homeruns.

how long was Barry allegedly on the drug? We don't know

Did Barry use anything other than "the Clear" or "the Cream" for any legitamite period of time?

We don't know.

So just stop accusing Bonds of everything that you can't prove damnit.

 

Yes Bonds was on insulin, EPO, and horse/cow steroids in addition to the cream and clear from at least 2001-2003, the biggest years of his career. You don't think we know? The evidence is far beyond a reasonable doubt. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/magazine/03/06/growth0313/index.html

 

Yes it takes more than muscles to hit homeruns. But when you add steroids to his already hall of fame ability, you get monster numbers. These numbers skyrocketed after hsi career was winding down. Why did he take them? He was jealous of Sammy and McGwire.

Bottom Line: He NEVER failed a steroid test in his life.

He's the only player in both the 400-400 club and 500-500 club, that's amazing.

I'm ending all arguements on my side.

 

Except that it's not the bottom line when we have a mountain of documentation and Grand Jury testimony that shows he did use steroids, along with other performance enhancers. We've got the exact drugs that were taken, the schedule he was on for each drug, the testimony of others who say he took them, under oath mind you. You would have to literally shove your head in the sand to believe he didn't use. The people who leaked the testimony did JAIL TIME for doing it -- think that happens when it was faked?

 

Again, Barry's one of the greatest even without the drugs. But there's so little question he used it isn't even funny.

[Balsa]

Finally, maybe ESPN can pay attention to the rest of baseball now.

 

I know! I haven't been able to keep up with what the Yankees and Red Sox are doing with all this Barry Bonds talk.

Touche.

 

But seriously, I can't see how this record would stand the test of time. It is a black mark on baseball and very symbolic of this whole era.

[Balsa]

From those who didn't want to read the Dugout chat:

 

[Soul]

From those who didn't want to read the Dugout chat:

 

 

*NOT* work-friendly.

[OleMissCub]

I could name a dozen that were better.

 

just for fun, name your 12

 

A dozen was just an offhand comment to dismiss Murton's claim that Bonds as the greatest player, I'd certainly put Barroid in the top 10, but I'll play along.

 

In no order, Ruth, Williams, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Clemens, Aaron, W. Johnson, Gehrig, Koufax, Matthewson, Hornsby, Speaker

[Electron Blue]

I could name a dozen that were better.

 

just for fun, name your 12

 

A dozen was just an offhand comment to dismiss Murton's claim that Bonds as the greatest player, I'd certainly put Barroid in the top 10, but I'll play along.

 

In no order, Ruth, Williams, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Clemens, Aaron, W. Johnson, Gehrig, Koufax, Matthewson, Hornsby, Speaker

 

offhand comments to dismiss other posters' claims is exactly what this board needs less of.

[OleMissCub]

http://www.freewebs.com/baseballhound/photos/aaron.jpg

 

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/tom_verducci/01/18/steroids.amphetamines/p1_aaron.jpg

 

Head growth.

 

certainly nothing like this:

 

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/9/8/8/f_barroidheadm_dde5ffb.jpg

[Electron Blue]

I could name a dozen that were better.

 

just for fun, name your 12

 

A dozen was just an offhand comment to dismiss Murton's claim that Bonds as the greatest player, I'd certainly put Barroid in the top 10, but I'll play along.

 

In no order, Ruth, Williams, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Clemens, Aaron, W. Johnson, Gehrig, Koufax, Matthewson, Hornsby, Speaker

 

offhand comments to dismiss other posters' claims is exactly what this board needs less of.

 

sir, yes sir!

 

there at least a dozen better ways to respond than that. AT LEAST.

 

 

 

 

 

;)

[OleMissCub]

 

there at least a dozen better ways to respond than that. AT LEAST.

 

 

 

;)

 

:-(

[Guest]

I could name a dozen that were better.

 

just for fun, name your 12

 

A dozen was just an offhand comment to dismiss Murton's claim that Bonds as the greatest player, I'd certainly put Barroid in the top 10, but I'll play along.

 

In no order, Ruth, Williams, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Clemens, Aaron, W. Johnson, Gehrig, Koufax, Matthewson, Hornsby, Speaker

So Clemens is the only player who began playing in the past 50 years that ranks among the all-time greats? You can accuse people of being stuck in the present, but don't you think you might be overrating the past?

[OleMissCub]

I could name a dozen that were better.

 

just for fun, name your 12

 

A dozen was just an offhand comment to dismiss Murton's claim that Bonds as the greatest player, I'd certainly put Barroid in the top 10, but I'll play along.

 

In no order, Ruth, Williams, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Clemens, Aaron, W. Johnson, Gehrig, Koufax, Matthewson, Hornsby, Speaker

So Clemens is the only player who began playing in the past 50 years that ranks among the all-time greats? You can accuse people of being stuck in the present, but don't you think you might be overrating the past?

 

No, because my realistic list would have Barroid around 4th or 5th all time. The only people I'd sincerely place ahead of him with a straight face would be Ruth, Williams, Cobb, and maybe Mays.

 

If it makes you feel any better I can take out Speaker and put in Griffey, take out Hornsby and put in Arod, take out Matthewson and put in Maddux.

[ConstableRabbit]

I could name a dozen that were better.

 

just for fun, name your 12

 

A dozen was just an offhand comment to dismiss Murton's claim that Bonds as the greatest player, I'd certainly put Barroid in the top 10, but I'll play along.

 

In no order, Ruth, Williams, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Clemens, Aaron, W. Johnson, Gehrig, Koufax, Matthewson, Hornsby, Speaker

So Clemens is the only player who began playing in the past 50 years that ranks among the all-time greats? You can accuse people of being stuck in the present, but don't you think you might be overrating the past?

 

Good point, Tim.

 

JMO, I wouldn't include Clemens without including Maddux and Pedro

[Guest]

I could name a dozen that were better.

 

just for fun, name your 12

 

A dozen was just an offhand comment to dismiss Murton's claim that Bonds as the greatest player, I'd certainly put Barroid in the top 10, but I'll play along.

 

In no order, Ruth, Williams, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Clemens, Aaron, W. Johnson, Gehrig, Koufax, Matthewson, Hornsby, Speaker

So Clemens is the only player who began playing in the past 50 years that ranks among the all-time greats? You can accuse people of being stuck in the present, but don't you think you might be overrating the past?

 

No, because my realistic list would have Barroid around 4th or 5th all time. The only people I'd sincerely place ahead of him with a straight face would be Ruth, Williams, Cobb, and maybe Mays.

 

If it makes you feel any better I can take out Speaker and put in Griffey, take out Hornsby and put in Arod, take out Matthewson and put in Maddux.

Won't make me feel better one way or another. Just found it interesting that the great players that come immediately to your mind almost exclusively started playing in the early 50's or before. It just puts other comments in context.

[Guest]

I could name a dozen that were better.

 

just for fun, name your 12

 

A dozen was just an offhand comment to dismiss Murton's claim that Bonds as the greatest player, I'd certainly put Barroid in the top 10, but I'll play along.

 

In no order, Ruth, Williams, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Clemens, Aaron, W. Johnson, Gehrig, Koufax, Matthewson, Hornsby, Speaker

So Clemens is the only player who began playing in the past 50 years that ranks among the all-time greats? You can accuse people of being stuck in the present, but don't you think you might be overrating the past?

 

Good point, Tim.

 

JMO, I wouldn't include Clemens without including Maddux and Pedro

Clemens was the best of the three for complete career value. Pedro had the best peak. Maddux was most consistent.

 

Pick your poison.

[OleMissCub]

Won't make me feel better one way or another. Just found it interesting that the great players that come immediately to your mind almost exclusively started playing in the early 50's or before. It just puts other comments in context.

 

I think when most fans think of all time greats, those are most of the names that pop up.

 

Who that has played in the past 40 years comes immediately to mind when people think of all time greats, other than Griffey, Bonds, Arod, Maddux, Clemens?

[OleMissCub]

 

Clemens was the best of the three for complete career value. Pedro had the best peak. Maddux was most consistent.

 

Pick your poison.

 

Pedro rivals Koufax for having the best single 5 year run.

[Balsa]

From those who didn't want to read the Dugout chat:

 

 

*NOT* work-friendly.

Why? This is just the CSN interview with Young.

[JeffH]

Who that has played in the past 40 years comes immediately to mind when people think of all time greats, other than Griffey, Bonds, Arod, Maddux, Clemens?

 

He may not come to mind immediately, but Mike Schmidt was a truly great baseball player.

 

I suppose that dullard who announces for ESPN belongs in that class, too.

[ConstableRabbit]

 

Clemens was the best of the three for complete career value. Pedro had the best peak. Maddux was most consistent.

 

Pick your poison.

 

Pedro rivals Koufax for having the best single 5 year run.

 

I'd agree with that, but those 5 years were basically all Koufax had, no? Pedro might win out on longevity. I'm pretty sure Sandy's arm was shot

[OleMissCub]

 

Clemens was the best of the three for complete career value. Pedro had the best peak. Maddux was most consistent.

 

Pick your poison.

 

Pedro rivals Koufax for having the best single 5 year run.

 

I'd agree with that, but those 5 years were basically all Koufax had, no? Pedro might win out on longevity. I'm pretty sure Sandy's arm was shot

 

Grover Cleveland Alexander has a 5 year stretch where he averaged 27 wins, 200k's, and a 1.64 ERA.

 

Koufax had a 5 year stretch where his ERA was 1.98

 

But considering that Pedro had an average ERA under 2.20 during a 5 year stretch in the modern game...that makes Pedro look all the more badass.

[Rob]

I'd still take any one of Ruth, Gehrig, Williams, Mays, or Aaron above him. Barry still isn't the best player of all time... He just one of the greatest, and happened to be the one playing during the era that made it more impressive.

[fromthestretch]

 

Clemens was the best of the three for complete career value. Pedro had the best peak. Maddux was most consistent.

 

Pick your poison.

 

Pedro rivals Koufax for having the best single 5 year run.

 

I'd agree with that, but those 5 years were basically all Koufax had, no? Pedro might win out on longevity. I'm pretty sure Sandy's arm was shot

 

Grover Cleveland Alexander has a 5 year stretch where he averaged 27 wins, 200k's, and a 1.64 ERA.

 

Koufax had a 5 year stretch where his ERA was 1.98

 

But considering that Pedro had an average ERA under 2.20 during a 5 year stretch in the modern game...that makes Pedro look all the more badass.

 

Pedro's career ranking in certain categories:

 

1st in ERA+

3rd in WHIP

3rd in K/9

3rd in Win %

3rd in K/BB

3rd in H/9

[Derwood]

Hank Aaron had over 900 more total bases than Barry

 

Barry's been on base 550 more times in 1400 less PAs.

 

i'll take extra bases over walks