What if... Pie/Marshall/??

[Mizzou]

Marquis with a nice outing tonight. Not that I'm surprised or anything.

[rickrolled]

i'm fairly shocked

[weis21]

I've posted several times that Marquis is not a bad 5th stater. Sure he sucks a lot of times he pitches, however he is also VERY good on several occasions. He has few starts that fall in the middle, but most of the time it's either one or the other. I understand why it is frustrating, but for a FIFTH, i repeat, FIFTH, starter he is not bad. His contract is quite risky, but not as bad as most people on here make it out to be. It's a double edge sword, but Marquis IMO has been a solid 5th stater.

[inari]

He's way better than Shawn Estes... that's about it.

[Keener98]

Marquis with a nice outing tonight. Not that I'm surprised or anything.

 

How did I know this thread would be posted in. Whats funny is I said he will give the Cubs a nice 1 run outing every now and then, but its the crappers in between those games that is the problem. Come bump this thread when hes given up 3 runs or less in 3 starts in a row, Im willing to bet, this thread wont get posted in again if thats the case.

[Keener98]

I've posted several times that Marquis is not a bad 5th stater. Sure he sucks a lot of times he pitches, however he is also VERY good on several occasions. He has few starts that fall in the middle, but most of the time it's either one or the other. I understand why it is frustrating, but for a FIFTH, i repeat, FIFTH, starter he is not bad. His contract is quite risky, but not as bad as most people on here make it out to be. It's a double edge sword, but Marquis IMO has been a solid 5th stater.

 

Hes not a 5th starter, hes a number 3.

[RynoRules]

I've posted several times that Marquis is not a bad 5th stater. Sure he sucks a lot of times he pitches, however he is also VERY good on several occasions. He has few starts that fall in the middle, but most of the time it's either one or the other. I understand why it is frustrating, but for a FIFTH, i repeat, FIFTH, starter he is not bad. His contract is quite risky, but not as bad as most people on here make it out to be. It's a double edge sword, but Marquis IMO has been a solid 5th stater.

 

Hes not a 5th starter, hes a number 3.

 

No he is not. He is 4th at best in this rotation.

[E.J.]

I've posted several times that Marquis is not a bad 5th stater. Sure he sucks a lot of times he pitches, however he is also VERY good on several occasions. He has few starts that fall in the middle, but most of the time it's either one or the other. I understand why it is frustrating, but for a FIFTH, i repeat, FIFTH, starter he is not bad. His contract is quite risky, but not as bad as most people on here make it out to be. It's a double edge sword, but Marquis IMO has been a solid 5th stater.

 

Hes not a 5th starter, hes a number 3.

 

No he is not. He is 4th at best in this rotation.

 

Yes, but he's paid like he's a #3 starter. That's what Keener is getting at. People say that he's a decent #5 starter for us, but he's making way more money than most 5th starters.

[TruffleShuffle]

I've posted several times that Marquis is not a bad 5th stater. Sure he sucks a lot of times he pitches, however he is also VERY good on several occasions. He has few starts that fall in the middle, but most of the time it's either one or the other. I understand why it is frustrating, but for a FIFTH, i repeat, FIFTH, starter he is not bad. His contract is quite risky, but not as bad as most people on here make it out to be. It's a double edge sword, but Marquis IMO has been a solid 5th stater.

 

Hes not a 5th starter, hes a number 3.

 

No he is not. He is 4th at best in this rotation.

 

Yes, but he's paid like he's a #3 starter. That's what Keener is getting at. People say that he's a decent #5 starter for us, but he's making way more money than most 5th starters.

 

I don't understand what the big deal about this. Hill is making a lot less money than a #3 starter, but that's how he's pitched this year.

[Keener98]

I've posted several times that Marquis is not a bad 5th stater. Sure he sucks a lot of times he pitches, however he is also VERY good on several occasions. He has few starts that fall in the middle, but most of the time it's either one or the other. I understand why it is frustrating, but for a FIFTH, i repeat, FIFTH, starter he is not bad. His contract is quite risky, but not as bad as most people on here make it out to be. It's a double edge sword, but Marquis IMO has been a solid 5th stater.

 

Hes not a 5th starter, hes a number 3.

 

No he is not. He is 4th at best in this rotation.

 

Zambrano Lilly Marquis Hill Marshall is how the rotation is set. Hes number 3 in the rotation and is paid like a number 3, its not that difficult to see.

[abuck1220]

i don't what all the confusion is about. he started out as a #3, he's paid like a #3. he's a #3. you can't pitch so bad that you're no longer considered a #3, then get credit for being a decent #5 when you're only a #5 because you sucked as a #3.

 

that's like me being a B student then starting to get D's, but wanting credit for getting D+'s instead of D-'s. or something.

[abuck1220]

were people giving zambrano credit for being a decent #5 when he was the cubs' fifth best starter early on?

[CubColtPacer]

Techinically, Marquis is still a decent to good number 3 so far. He probably won't remain that way by the end of September, but he is that way right now. He has a chance to remain a decent number 3 by the end of the year-as long as he remains about a 4.5 ERA, he could be there. (right now he's around a 4.2 and has hung around that number for the last 3 starts).

 

NL average as starter: 4.51

AL average as starter: 4.66

 

 

 

I think the Cubs signed him to be a #4 anyway. The rotation was Z/Lilly/Hill/Marquis/???? at the beginning of the year. They only switched Marquis and Hill in the rotation order in order to get a R/L/R thing going. Remember that if Prior had been healthy the Cubs were going to make him the #3 starter in the order and Marquis would have been #5.

Edited August 11, 2007 by CubColtPacer

[CUBZ99]

i don't what all the confusion is about. he started out as a #3, he's paid like a #3. he's a #3. you can't pitch so bad that you're no longer considered a #3, then get credit for being a decent #5 when you're only a #5 because you sucked as a #3.

 

that's like me being a B student then starting to get D's, but wanting credit for getting D+'s instead of D-'s. or something.

 

What exactly does a #3 pitch like? I think those arguing Marquis is not a #3 pitcher have some unrealistic expectations of what a #3 pitcher is. If you compare Marquis to the NL Central (the division in which the Cubs compete), He is actually pitching good enough to be a #2. To go down the list:

 

Marquis 4.18 ERA with a 1.33 WHIP $4.75MM in 2007

 

Reds -- Arroyo 5-12 4.51 ERA 1.43 WHIP $4.5MM this year 2yr/$25MM extension :shock:

 

Compared to Arroyo, Marquis is the bargain of the century.

 

Astros -- Jennings 2 - 7 6.15 ERA 1.53 WHIP $5.5MM

 

Again Marquis is a relative Bargain.

 

Cardinals (Take your pick)

 

Wells 5.27 ERA 1.56 WHIP $4MM

Looper 5.25 ERA 1.41 WHIP $4.5MM

Wainwright 4.21 1.47 WHIP $400K

 

Pirates

 

Armas (to start the year?) 6.31 ERA 1.62 WHIP

 

Brewers

 

Suppan 4.84 ERA 1.52 WHIP $6.2MM

Capuano 4.96 ERA 1.49 WHIP $3.2MM

 

Although I hate to admit I may have been wrong about the Marquis signing, it looks like Hendry got himself quite the bargain for this year atleast.

[JeffH]

Jason Marquis is what he is - a relatively decent, basically average pitcher.

 

Somewhere north of Mark Clark and south of Kevin Tapani.

[Bruno7481]

i don't what all the confusion is about. he started out as a #3, he's paid like a #3. he's a #3. you can't pitch so bad that you're no longer considered a #3, then get credit for being a decent #5 when you're only a #5 because you sucked as a #3.

 

that's like me being a B student then starting to get D's, but wanting credit for getting D+'s instead of D-'s. or something.

 

What exactly does a #3 pitch like? I think those arguing Marquis is not a #3 pitcher have some unrealistic expectations of what a #3 pitcher is. If you compare Marquis to the NL Central (the division in which the Cubs compete), He is actually pitching good enough to be a #2. To go down the list:

 

Marquis 4.18 ERA with a 1.33 WHIP $4.75MM in 2007

 

Reds -- Arroyo 5-12 4.51 ERA 1.43 WHIP $4.5MM this year 2yr/$25MM extension :shock:

 

Compared to Arroyo, Marquis is the bargain of the century.

 

Astros -- Jennings 2 - 7 6.15 ERA 1.53 WHIP $5.5MM

 

Again Marquis is a relative Bargain.

 

Cardinals (Take your pick)

 

Wells 5.27 ERA 1.56 WHIP $4MM

Looper 5.25 ERA 1.41 WHIP $4.5MM

Wainwright 4.21 1.47 WHIP $400K

 

Pirates

 

Armas (to start the year?) 6.31 ERA 1.62 WHIP

 

Brewers

 

Suppan 4.84 ERA 1.52 WHIP $6.2MM

Capuano 4.96 ERA 1.49 WHIP $3.2MM

 

Although I hate to admit I may have been wrong about the Marquis signing, it looks like Hendry got himself quite the bargain for this year atleast.

 

Stop trying to prove your argument with those things called "stats".

 

8-)

[Illini Iceman]

Jason Marquis is what he is - a relatively decent, basically average pitcher.

 

Somewhere north of Mark Clark and south of Kevin Tapani.

 

And, whether people want to admit it or not, $8M per year is about what that type of pitcher costs in this market.

[treebird]

i don't what all the confusion is about. he started out as a #3, he's paid like a #3. he's a #3. you can't pitch so bad that you're no longer considered a #3, then get credit for being a decent #5 when you're only a #5 because you sucked as a #3.

 

that's like me being a B student then starting to get D's, but wanting credit for getting D+'s instead of D-'s. or something.

 

What exactly does a #3 pitch like? I think those arguing Marquis is not a #3 pitcher have some unrealistic expectations of what a #3 pitcher is. If you compare Marquis to the NL Central (the division in which the Cubs compete), He is actually pitching good enough to be a #2. To go down the list:

 

Marquis 4.18 ERA with a 1.33 WHIP $4.75MM in 2007

 

Reds -- Arroyo 5-12 4.51 ERA 1.43 WHIP $4.5MM this year 2yr/$25MM extension :shock:

 

Compared to Arroyo, Marquis is the bargain of the century.

 

Astros -- Jennings 2 - 7 6.15 ERA 1.53 WHIP $5.5MM

 

Again Marquis is a relative Bargain.

 

Cardinals (Take your pick)

 

Wells 5.27 ERA 1.56 WHIP $4MM

Looper 5.25 ERA 1.41 WHIP $4.5MM

Wainwright 4.21 1.47 WHIP $400K

 

Pirates

 

Armas (to start the year?) 6.31 ERA 1.62 WHIP

 

Brewers

 

Suppan 4.84 ERA 1.52 WHIP $6.2MM

Capuano 4.96 ERA 1.49 WHIP $3.2MM

 

Although I hate to admit I may have been wrong about the Marquis signing, it looks like Hendry got himself quite the bargain for this year atleast.

 

yay the cubs are better than the other losers in the worst division

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Marquis is pitching like a #2 starter ERA wise. Here's the averages from last year...

 

Lg      #1      #2      #3      #4      #5
MLB     3.60    4.14    4.58    5.10    6.24
AL      3.70    4.24    4.58    5.09    6.22
NL      3.51    4.04    4.57    5.11    6.26

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-good-is-your-4-starter/

Edited August 11, 2007 by CardsFanInChiTown

[Drew Doughty]

i'd bet with run scoring generally being down that he's more like an average-slightly above average #3., but i am far too lazy to actually go through it all on my own.

[abuck1220]

i don't what all the confusion is about. he started out as a #3, he's paid like a #3. he's a #3. you can't pitch so bad that you're no longer considered a #3, then get credit for being a decent #5 when you're only a #5 because you sucked as a #3.

 

that's like me being a B student then starting to get D's, but wanting credit for getting D+'s instead of D-'s. or something.

 

What exactly does a #3 pitch like? I think those arguing Marquis is not a #3 pitcher have some unrealistic expectations of what a #3 pitcher is. If you compare Marquis to the NL Central (the division in which the Cubs compete), He is actually pitching good enough to be a #2. To go down the list:

 

Marquis 4.18 ERA with a 1.33 WHIP $4.75MM in 2007

 

Reds -- Arroyo 5-12 4.51 ERA 1.43 WHIP $4.5MM this year 2yr/$25MM extension :shock:

 

Compared to Arroyo, Marquis is the bargain of the century.

 

Astros -- Jennings 2 - 7 6.15 ERA 1.53 WHIP $5.5MM

 

Again Marquis is a relative Bargain.

 

Cardinals (Take your pick)

 

Wells 5.27 ERA 1.56 WHIP $4MM

Looper 5.25 ERA 1.41 WHIP $4.5MM

Wainwright 4.21 1.47 WHIP $400K

 

Pirates

 

Armas (to start the year?) 6.31 ERA 1.62 WHIP

 

Brewers

 

Suppan 4.84 ERA 1.52 WHIP $6.2MM

Capuano 4.96 ERA 1.49 WHIP $3.2MM

 

Although I hate to admit I may have been wrong about the Marquis signing, it looks like Hendry got himself quite the bargain for this year atleast.

 

Stop trying to prove your argument with those things called "stats".

 

8-)

 

yeah, he sure showed me. the cubs are better than some of the worst pitching staffs in the league. awesome.

[Bruno7481]

i don't what all the confusion is about. he started out as a #3, he's paid like a #3. he's a #3. you can't pitch so bad that you're no longer considered a #3, then get credit for being a decent #5 when you're only a #5 because you sucked as a #3.

 

that's like me being a B student then starting to get D's, but wanting credit for getting D+'s instead of D-'s. or something.

 

What exactly does a #3 pitch like? I think those arguing Marquis is not a #3 pitcher have some unrealistic expectations of what a #3 pitcher is. If you compare Marquis to the NL Central (the division in which the Cubs compete), He is actually pitching good enough to be a #2. To go down the list:

 

Marquis 4.18 ERA with a 1.33 WHIP $4.75MM in 2007

 

Reds -- Arroyo 5-12 4.51 ERA 1.43 WHIP $4.5MM this year 2yr/$25MM extension :shock:

 

Compared to Arroyo, Marquis is the bargain of the century.

 

Astros -- Jennings 2 - 7 6.15 ERA 1.53 WHIP $5.5MM

 

Again Marquis is a relative Bargain.

 

Cardinals (Take your pick)

 

Wells 5.27 ERA 1.56 WHIP $4MM

Looper 5.25 ERA 1.41 WHIP $4.5MM

Wainwright 4.21 1.47 WHIP $400K

 

Pirates

 

Armas (to start the year?) 6.31 ERA 1.62 WHIP

 

Brewers

 

Suppan 4.84 ERA 1.52 WHIP $6.2MM

Capuano 4.96 ERA 1.49 WHIP $3.2MM

 

Although I hate to admit I may have been wrong about the Marquis signing, it looks like Hendry got himself quite the bargain for this year atleast.

 

Stop trying to prove your argument with those things called "stats".

 

8-)

 

yeah, he sure showed me. the cubs are better than some of the worst pitching staffs in the league. awesome.

 

It was a joke.

 

This whole argument is crazy. Marquis hasn't been great, or terrible, he's been OK.

 

Lets just leave it at that.

[CUBZ99]

i don't what all the confusion is about. he started out as a #3, he's paid like a #3. he's a #3. you can't pitch so bad that you're no longer considered a #3, then get credit for being a decent #5 when you're only a #5 because you sucked as a #3.

 

that's like me being a B student then starting to get D's, but wanting credit for getting D+'s instead of D-'s. or something.

 

What exactly does a #3 pitch like? I think those arguing Marquis is not a #3 pitcher have some unrealistic expectations of what a #3 pitcher is. If you compare Marquis to the NL Central (the division in which the Cubs compete), He is actually pitching good enough to be a #2. To go down the list:

 

Marquis 4.18 ERA with a 1.33 WHIP $4.75MM in 2007

 

Reds -- Arroyo 5-12 4.51 ERA 1.43 WHIP $4.5MM this year 2yr/$25MM extension :shock:

 

Compared to Arroyo, Marquis is the bargain of the century.

 

Astros -- Jennings 2 - 7 6.15 ERA 1.53 WHIP $5.5MM

 

Again Marquis is a relative Bargain.

 

Cardinals (Take your pick)

 

Wells 5.27 ERA 1.56 WHIP $4MM

Looper 5.25 ERA 1.41 WHIP $4.5MM

Wainwright 4.21 1.47 WHIP $400K

 

Pirates

 

Armas (to start the year?) 6.31 ERA 1.62 WHIP

 

Brewers

 

Suppan 4.84 ERA 1.52 WHIP $6.2MM

Capuano 4.96 ERA 1.49 WHIP $3.2MM

 

Although I hate to admit I may have been wrong about the Marquis signing, it looks like Hendry got himself quite the bargain for this year atleast.

 

Stop trying to prove your argument with those things called "stats".

 

8-)

 

yeah, he sure showed me. the cubs are better than some of the worst pitching staffs in the league. awesome.

 

Thanks to Cardsfan for taking the time to dig up the stats for 2006 to show you that Marquis numbers are above avg. for a #3. I would think that before you trash a guy and complain about how bad of a deal he was, you would do some research and have some basis for your argument.

[CUBZ99]

i don't what all the confusion is about. he started out as a #3, he's paid like a #3. he's a #3. you can't pitch so bad that you're no longer considered a #3, then get credit for being a decent #5 when you're only a #5 because you sucked as a #3.

 

that's like me being a B student then starting to get D's, but wanting credit for getting D+'s instead of D-'s. or something.

 

What exactly does a #3 pitch like? I think those arguing Marquis is not a #3 pitcher have some unrealistic expectations of what a #3 pitcher is. If you compare Marquis to the NL Central (the division in which the Cubs compete), He is actually pitching good enough to be a #2. To go down the list:

 

Marquis 4.18 ERA with a 1.33 WHIP $4.75MM in 2007

 

Reds -- Arroyo 5-12 4.51 ERA 1.43 WHIP $4.5MM this year 2yr/$25MM extension :shock:

 

Compared to Arroyo, Marquis is the bargain of the century.

 

Astros -- Jennings 2 - 7 6.15 ERA 1.53 WHIP $5.5MM

 

Again Marquis is a relative Bargain.

 

Cardinals (Take your pick)

 

Wells 5.27 ERA 1.56 WHIP $4MM

Looper 5.25 ERA 1.41 WHIP $4.5MM

Wainwright 4.21 1.47 WHIP $400K

 

Pirates

 

Armas (to start the year?) 6.31 ERA 1.62 WHIP

 

Brewers

 

Suppan 4.84 ERA 1.52 WHIP $6.2MM

Capuano 4.96 ERA 1.49 WHIP $3.2MM

 

Although I hate to admit I may have been wrong about the Marquis signing, it looks like Hendry got himself quite the bargain for this year atleast.

 

Stop trying to prove your argument with those things called "stats".

 

8-)

 

yeah, he sure showed me. the cubs are better than some of the worst pitching staffs in the league. awesome.

 

It was a joke.

 

This whole argument is crazy. Marquis hasn't been great, or terrible, he's been OK.

 

Lets just leave it at that.

 

I agree, Marquis is never going to be the ace of the staff, but he has put in a decent year for the Cubs.

[davearm]

I've posted several times that Marquis is not a bad 5th stater. Sure he sucks a lot of times he pitches, however he is also VERY good on several occasions. He has few starts that fall in the middle, but most of the time it's either one or the other. I understand why it is frustrating, but for a FIFTH, i repeat, FIFTH, starter he is not bad. His contract is quite risky, but not as bad as most people on here make it out to be. It's a double edge sword, but Marquis IMO has been a solid 5th stater.

 

Hes not a 5th starter, hes a number 3.

 

No he is not. He is 4th at best in this rotation.

 

Zambrano Lilly Marquis Hill Marshall is how the rotation is set. Hes number 3 in the rotation and is paid like a number 3, its not that difficult to see.

LOL what a reach.

 

Earlier in this thread you made a big point of how silly it is to harp on a guy's spot in the rotation.

 

Now you're clinging to it as your argument crumbles with each new post showing how wrong you are.

 

Look Marquis was signed to eat innings and provide a league-averageish ERA at the back of the rotation, behind Z, Lilly, Hill at least, and possibly behind another developing youngster (Guzman, Marshall being the top two contenders at the time Marquis was signed).

 

Wanna argue that Marquis is not providing exactly what he was signed to provide?

 

That $7M sure seems like money well spent when you consider what this team suffered through last year using unproven/unready kids at the back end when there was nobody like Marquis around.