What are the chances

[Backtobanks]

Assuming the Cubs win the NL Central and Aram keeps driving in clutch runs, that he has a legitimate shot at MVP? I know it's not the end of the season, but I have trouble believing that anybody has been more valuable to their team.

[David]

Prince Fielder right now is beating him in just about every category.

[Elrhino]

He's got miles and miles to go to catch up to Prince. Even if the Cubs take the division, it won't be by enough for the voters to discredit Prince as a "good player on a bad team". Edited July 20, 2007 by Elrhino

[NCCubFan]

Prince Fielder right now is beating him in just about every category.

True, but if they go by the true meaning of "most valuable" rather than "most outstanding" (which admittedly they usually don't) then I think Aram might have a case.

[David]

I've never really been of the opinion that a team's record (or composition) should have anything to do with MVP voting.

 

It's an individual award for a game that is very much an individual sport, particularly on offense. Prince Fielder would be just as good on the Cubs or Red Sox or any other team. It's not his fault if his team winds up (hypothetical, obviously) missing the playoffs, nor is it his fault that his lineup is a little more balanced.

 

McGwire should've won it in 98, but I'm not complaining that Sammy took it.

[NCCubFan]

I've never really been of the opinion that a team's record (or composition) should have anything to do with MVP voting.

 

It's an individual award for a game that is very much an individual sport, particularly on offense. Prince Fielder would be just as good on the Cubs or Red Sox or any other team. It's not his fault if his team winds up (hypothetical, obviously) missing the playoffs, nor is it his fault that his lineup is a little more balanced.

 

McGwire should've won it in 98, but I'm not complaining that Sammy took it.

This is actually an age-old debate which will continue as long as baseball is played. It usually is treated as a most outstanding player award, but given that it's called the Most VALUABLE Player, perhaps it shouldn't be. By definition, most VALUABLE means who made the most difference for their team, not who had the most outstanding individual performance. Given how it usually is looked at perhaps it should be re-named Player of the Year instead of Most Valuable Player.

[Rob]

The NL leaderboard for WPA.

 

1. Barry Bonds - 3.53

2. Aramis Ramirez - 3.17

3. Prince Fielder - 3.06

4. Brad Hawpe - 3.02

5. Albert Pujols - 2.94

6. Troy Tulowitzky - 2.64

7. Chase Utley - 2.54

8. Todd Helton - 2.54

9. Miguel Cabrera - 2.31

10. Adrian Gonzalez - 2.07

11. Ken Griffey Jr. - 1.94

12. Derrek Lee - 1.94

 

Just food for thought.

[Backtobanks]

I've never really been of the opinion that a team's record (or composition) should have anything to do with MVP voting.

 

It's an individual award for a game that is very much an individual sport, particularly on offense. Prince Fielder would be just as good on the Cubs or Red Sox or any other team. It's not his fault if his team winds up (hypothetical, obviously) missing the playoffs, nor is it his fault that his lineup is a little more balanced.

 

McGwire should've won it in 98, but I'm not complaining that Sammy took it.

This is actually an age-old debate which will continue as long as baseball is played. It usually is treated as a most outstanding player award, but given that it's called the Most VALUABLE Player, perhaps it shouldn't be. By definition, most VALUABLE means who made the most difference for their team, not who had the most outstanding individual performance. Given how it usually is looked at perhaps it should be re-named Player of the Year instead of Most Valuable Player.

 

I've always thought that they should have a separate award for Player of the Year. The POY could be from any team, while the MVP would come from a team finishing 1st or 2nd.

[bhogg]

2 awards would mean twice the bitching.

 

1 award does the trick :)

[Cubfan_N_nebraska]

Honestly I'd rather see him mobbing his teammates after the third out of the deciding game of the World Series. Anything extra he gets will just be the icing on the cake.

[otis89]

Honestly I'd rather see him mobbing his teammates after the third out of the deciding game of the World Series. Anything extra he gets will just be the icing on the cake.

 

Why would he mob his teammates after the end of the first inning? :wink:

 

I know what you meant though.

[Cubfan_N_nebraska]

Cause He's really God and knows the outcome of the game and just can't contain Himself! :D

[Shilzzz]

The NL leaderboard for WPA.

 

1. Barry Bonds - 3.53

2. Aramis Ramirez - 3.17

3. Prince Fielder - 3.06

4. Brad Hawpe - 3.02

5. Albert Pujols - 2.94

6. Troy Tulowitzky - 2.64

7. Chase Utley - 2.54

8. Todd Helton - 2.54

9. Miguel Cabrera - 2.31

10. Adrian Gonzalez - 2.07

11. Ken Griffey Jr. - 1.94

12. Derrek Lee - 1.94

 

Just food for thought.

 

suprised to see lee that high.

 

where did you get that list?

[chuckywang]

He's got miles and miles to go to catch up to Prince. Even if the Cubs take the division, it won't be by enough for the voters to discredit Prince as a "good player on a bad team".

 

When was the last time the NL MVP did not go to the playoffs? Just saying in case the Cubs win the division and the Brewers do not....

[NCCubFan]

Cause He's really God and knows the outcome of the game and just can't contain Himself! :D

Or because, by the time the Cubs make the third out, they will have already more than batted around and put the game out of reach. :D

[nilodnayr]

The NL leaderboard for WPA.

 

1. Barry Bonds - 3.53

2. Aramis Ramirez - 3.17

3. Prince Fielder - 3.06

4. Brad Hawpe - 3.02

5. Albert Pujols - 2.94

6. Troy Tulowitzky - 2.64

7. Chase Utley - 2.54

8. Todd Helton - 2.54

9. Miguel Cabrera - 2.31

10. Adrian Gonzalez - 2.07

11. Ken Griffey Jr. - 1.94

12. Derrek Lee - 1.94

 

Just food for thought.

 

suprised to see lee that high.

 

where did you get that list?

 

Lee? Hell, take a look at Tulo :shock:

[Drew Doughty]

The NL leaderboard for WPA.

 

1. Barry Bonds - 3.53

2. Aramis Ramirez - 3.17

3. Prince Fielder - 3.06

4. Brad Hawpe - 3.02

5. Albert Pujols - 2.94

6. Troy Tulowitzky - 2.64

7. Chase Utley - 2.54

8. Todd Helton - 2.54

9. Miguel Cabrera - 2.31

10. Adrian Gonzalez - 2.07

11. Ken Griffey Jr. - 1.94

12. Derrek Lee - 1.94

 

Just food for thought.

 

suprised to see lee that high.

 

where did you get that list?

 

Lee? Hell, take a look at Tulo :shock:

 

i think he had two times this season where he hit a go ahead or game tying home run in the 9th inning only to have his team blow it.

 

looking at his gamelog, he had a stretch of 3 games where he hit a game-tying 2-R HR in the 9th, game-tying 3-R HR in the 9th (Cubs), and a go-ahead solo HR in the 11th, only to have his team lose all three games.

[MPrior]

The NL leaderboard for WPA.

 

1. Barry Bonds - 3.53

2. Aramis Ramirez - 3.17

3. Prince Fielder - 3.06

4. Brad Hawpe - 3.02

5. Albert Pujols - 2.94

6. Troy Tulowitzky - 2.64

7. Chase Utley - 2.54

8. Todd Helton - 2.54

9. Miguel Cabrera - 2.31

10. Adrian Gonzalez - 2.07

11. Ken Griffey Jr. - 1.94

12. Derrek Lee - 1.94

 

Just food for thought.

 

suprised to see lee that high.

 

where did you get that list?

 

Lee? Hell, take a look at Tulo :shock:

 

i think he had two times this season where he hit a go ahead or game tying home run in the 9th inning only to have his team blow it.

 

looking at his gamelog, he had a stretch of 3 games where he hit a game-tying 2-R HR in the 9th, game-tying 3-R HR in the 9th (Cubs), and a go-ahead solo HR in the 11th, only to have his team lose all three games.

 

Forgive my ignorance - what's WPA?

[Drew Doughty]

The NL leaderboard for WPA.

 

1. Barry Bonds - 3.53

2. Aramis Ramirez - 3.17

3. Prince Fielder - 3.06

4. Brad Hawpe - 3.02

5. Albert Pujols - 2.94

6. Troy Tulowitzky - 2.64

7. Chase Utley - 2.54

8. Todd Helton - 2.54

9. Miguel Cabrera - 2.31

10. Adrian Gonzalez - 2.07

11. Ken Griffey Jr. - 1.94

12. Derrek Lee - 1.94

 

Just food for thought.

 

suprised to see lee that high.

 

where did you get that list?

 

Lee? Hell, take a look at Tulo :shock:

 

i think he had two times this season where he hit a go ahead or game tying home run in the 9th inning only to have his team blow it.

 

looking at his gamelog, he had a stretch of 3 games where he hit a game-tying 2-R HR in the 9th, game-tying 3-R HR in the 9th (Cubs), and a go-ahead solo HR in the 11th, only to have his team lose all three games.

 

Forgive my ignorance - what's WPA?

 

it's short for Win Probability Average. It's not really meaningful in the long run, in that it's not predictive at all. It's a stat designed to try and place a number on each individual play and it's effect on the outcome of the game. So a home run late would count more than a home run early.

 

if you're still confused, this explains it better than i can:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win_probability_added

[Mephistopheles]

wpa is worthless.

[Electron Blue]

I've never really been of the opinion that a team's record (or composition) should have anything to do with MVP voting.

 

It's an individual award for a game that is very much an individual sport, particularly on offense. Prince Fielder would be just as good on the Cubs or Red Sox or any other team. It's not his fault if his team winds up (hypothetical, obviously) missing the playoffs, nor is it his fault that his lineup is a little more balanced.

 

McGwire should've won it in 98, but I'm not complaining that Sammy took it.

This is actually an age-old debate which will continue as long as baseball is played. It usually is treated as a most outstanding player award, but given that it's called the Most VALUABLE Player, perhaps it shouldn't be. By definition, most VALUABLE means who made the most difference for their team, not who had the most outstanding individual performance. Given how it usually is looked at perhaps it should be re-named Player of the Year instead of Most Valuable Player.

 

hmmm... I don't really think that's true. Why is the "value" of a player dependant on its surroundings (and its surroundings' dependence on it)?

 

Say I have a cherished family heirloom that I decide to sell on eBay. I list it at $500 (because it's very important to me specifically). An appraiser says it's worth half that (for objective, tangible reasons). What's the value of the item?

 

If you replace the word "valuable" with "indespensible" in your post, I think the argument would have a case. as it is, I don't think you're really drawing a line between the two sides of the debate.

[Fred Hornkohl]

wpa is worthless.

 

Hell.... they said that back in the 30's !!!!