we should do this

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

you, sir, are one big ass homer. while it's possible that Lee outslugs Prince the rest of the season, it's not very likely.

Based on what? The fact that Prince Fielder has shown he can keep his numbers up for a full season? I may be a homer, but you know generally what you're going to get with Lee. A solid, consistent player with MUCH better defense than Fielder. That's why I want him. There's more to baseball than fantasy stats. Fielder isn't a DH. And he hasn't been around long enough for us to know if he can keep this pace up. He probably will, but there's no guarantee either way.

 

But like I said, it's just one man's opinion. If you don't want Lee, fine, but don't criticize other's opinions simply because they don't see things the way you do.

 

im pretty sure i have every right to criticize someone's opinion. If you don't want it to be criticized, don't post it. You can keep dreaming that Prince isn't better than Lee, but remember it's just a dream. Your nightmare of Prince being better than Lee is reality.

 

Show me where I said Lee was better than Prince. Please, show me. I'd like to see it. I never once said that. And I won't say it. All I said is I'd rather have Lee for the rest of the season. If you feel different, good for you. I'll mail you a cookie.

Edited July 18, 2007 by BleedCubbieBlue81

[Mephistopheles]

and where did the line of thinking that there's more to baseball than fantasy stats come from? because it's pretty much not true.

So you're saying that defense means nothing? Why even give them gloves then?

 

 

it means very little in the greater scope. Lee's better but not enough to justify the lack of power Lee has possessed.

[Mephistopheles]

you, sir, are one big ass homer. while it's possible that Lee outslugs Prince the rest of the season, it's not very likely.

Based on what? The fact that Prince Fielder has shown he can keep his numbers up for a full season? I may be a homer, but you know generally what you're going to get with Lee. A solid, consistent player with MUCH better defense than Fielder. That's why I want him. There's more to baseball than fantasy stats. Fielder isn't a DH. And he hasn't been around long enough for us to know if he can keep this pace up. He probably will, but there's no guarantee either way.

 

But like I said, it's just one man's opinion. If you don't want Lee, fine, but don't criticize other's opinions simply because they don't see things the way you do.

 

im pretty sure i have every right to criticize someone's opinion. If you don't want it to be criticized, don't post it. You can keep dreaming that Prince isn't better than Lee, but remember it's just a dream. Your nightmare of Prince being better than Lee is reality.

 

Show me where I said Lee was better than Prince. Please, show me. I'd like to see it. I never once said that. And I won't say it. All I said is I'd rather have Lee for the rest of the season.

 

You said this:

 

Um, I know Fielder is having a great year, but I'd still want Derrek Lee the rest of the year.

 

A. You're an idiot if you didn't think you would be inferring that you thought Lee was better.

B. If you are saying Fielder is better, and you prefer an inferior player like Lee, what the hell are you trying to say? You want to lose?

[Skyballer]

Call me a homer, but I'll take TheRiot over Jose Reyes.

 

Don't ask me why...just instinct.

 

or insanity

Fixed. Or Theriot's recent performance.

[/b]

[abuck1220]

and where did the line of thinking that there's more to baseball than fantasy stats come from? because it's pretty much not true.

So you're saying that defense means nothing? Why even give them gloves then?

 

i don't think defense means a lot...especially at freaking 1b. lee is better than fielder defensively, but how many runs/wins does a superior defensive 1b give you? not many. it's not like he's flagging down balls in the outfield gaps or diving to stop basehits at ss. he's a 1b...a good percentage of his chances could be made by a high schooler.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

This will be my last post on this cause it's obvious that we'll never agree on anything. Out of the standard stats, Lee currently has more hits in less at bats, more doubles, more triples (although 1 to nothing isn't saying much), more walks, less strikeouts, a higher average, a higher on base percentage, more steals, plays gold glove defense, and generally plays BETTER later in the season than he does in the beginning. Fielder has more runs (which generally isn't Lee's fault besides the lack of power), more homers, more rbi's, and a better slugging %. That's it. Not to mention, although I know it's an extremely small sample size, his power numbers drop off in the 2nd half of the season (1 homer every 14 at bats in the 1st half, 1 homer every 20 at bats in the second half.) He has yet to prove to me that he can keep up his pace all season.

 

So call me a moron if you want. I really don't care. Fielder is having a better year up to this point. But just because a guy hits a lot of homeruns, doesn't mean he's a better alternative. Fielder has more home runs than Pujols right now too, but I'd rather have Pujols the rest of the year as well.

Edited July 18, 2007 by BleedCubbieBlue81

[Skyballer]

This will be my last post on this cause it's obvious that we'll never agree on anything. Out of the standard stats, Lee currently has more hits in less at bats, more doubles, more triples (although 1 to nothing isn't saying much), more walks, less strikeouts, a higher average, a higher on base percentage, more steals, plays gold glove defense, and generally plays BETTER later in the season than he does in the beginning. Fielder has more runs (which generally isn't Lee's fault besides the lack of power), more homers, and more rbi's. That's it. Not to mention, although I know it's an extremely small sample size, his power numbers drop off in the 2nd half of the season (1 homer every 14 at bats in the 1st half, 1 homer every 20 at bats in the second half.) He has yet to prove to me that he can keep up his pace all season.

 

So call me a moron if you want. I really don't care. Fielder is having a better year up to this point. But just because a guy hits a lot of homeruns, doesn't mean he's a better alternative. Fielder has more home runs than Pujols right now too, but I'd rather have Pujols the rest of the year as well.

We can't do that. As for the rest of the post, DING, you win. :idea:

[Drew Doughty]

in the second half last year, Fielder's OPS jumped nearly 100 points. His SLG jumped a few points (mostly related to a slight increase in average, if i had to guess), and he hit 4 fewer home runs in 21 fewer games.

 

I don't know what you're basing your claim of fading in the second half on. The reason he would hit more home runs in the first half (per AB) in his career is because his breakout this year started in the first half.

 

by nearly 100 i suppose i mean 70. don't know what i was thinking there.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Drew Doughty

[abuck1220]

dividing up stats and seeing who has more of each one is a pretty biased (and weird, not to mention completely worthless) way to value players.

 

bottom line, fielder has been much more valuable than lee this year using every measuring stick available...other than your newly created "tally method".

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

This will be my last post on this cause it's obvious that we'll never agree on anything. Out of the standard stats, Lee currently has more hits in less at bats, more doubles, more triples (although 1 to nothing isn't saying much), more walks, less strikeouts, a higher average, a higher on base percentage, more steals, plays gold glove defense, and generally plays BETTER later in the season than he does in the beginning. Fielder has more runs (which generally isn't Lee's fault besides the lack of power), more homers, and more rbi's. That's it. Not to mention, although I know it's an extremely small sample size, his power numbers drop off in the 2nd half of the season (1 homer every 14 at bats in the 1st half, 1 homer every 20 at bats in the second half.) He has yet to prove to me that he can keep up his pace all season.

 

So call me a moron if you want. I really don't care. Fielder is having a better year up to this point. But just because a guy hits a lot of homeruns, doesn't mean he's a better alternative. Fielder has more home runs than Pujols right now too, but I'd rather have Pujols the rest of the year as well.

We can't do that. As for the rest of the post, DING, you win. :idea:

I'm actually giving you permission. :lol: I never thought that my opinion that I'd rather have one all star over another would cause such a stir, but apparently it did.

[Guest]

I'll take Ramirez over Braun today, tomorrow, next week and next month.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

dividing up stats and seeing who has more of each one is a pretty biased (and weird, not to mention completely worthless) way to value players.

 

bottom line, fielder has been much more valuable than lee this year using every measuring stick available...other than your newly created "tally method".

 

How is it biased? Those are the numbers straight up. You can't argue with those. The only thing that Fielder has been better than Lee at this year is hitting home runs, plain and simple. If you can find something else, feel free. I don't know what measuring stick you use to judge players, but I go by their numbers. Fielder hits more home runs, Lee does more of everything else.

Edited July 18, 2007 by BleedCubbieBlue81

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

in the second half last year, Fielder's OPS jumped nearly 100 points. His SLG jumped a few points (mostly related to a slight increase in average, if i had to guess), and he hit 4 fewer home runs in 21 fewer games.

 

I don't know what you're basing your claim of fading in the second half on. The reason he would hit more home runs in the first half (per AB) in his career is because his breakout this year started in the first half.

 

by nearly 100 i suppose i mean 70. don't know what i was thinking there.

 

I said it was a small sample size, so it's probably irrelevant. But he doesn't have a proven track record of having a better second half either. So you can't say he's a lock to keep up his numbers.

 

On that note, it's late, and I have to work tomorrow. Time for bed.

[Drew Doughty]

in the second half last year, Fielder's OPS jumped nearly 100 points. His SLG jumped a few points (mostly related to a slight increase in average, if i had to guess), and he hit 4 fewer home runs in 21 fewer games.

 

I don't know what you're basing your claim of fading in the second half on. The reason he would hit more home runs in the first half (per AB) in his career is because his breakout this year started in the first half.

 

by nearly 100 i suppose i mean 70. don't know what i was thinking there.

 

I said it was a small sample size, so it's probably irrelevant. But he doesn't have a proven track record of having a better second half either. So you can't say he's a lock to keep up his numbers.

 

On that note, it's late, and I have to work tomorrow. Time for bed.

 

i don't really care if it's a small sample size, but you're misusing the statistics that you presented.

[soccer10k]

bp:

 

Infield. The clearest edge is at shortstop, where J.J. Hardy, having regressed to something resembling a sustainable level of performance, still rates miles ahead of Cesar Izturis or Ryan Theriot; note also that the Cubs’ best shortstop option is currently playing at Triple-A. The infield corners present interesting quandaries about hot first halves against established performances, but even most Cub fans would concede that they’d prefer Prince Fielder to Derrek Lee the rest of the way out, while third base looks like a wash. Edge: Brewers

 

 

cedeno should be starting. no doubt. if you're against this you're against winning.

 

Yes, if Cedeno could carry the productivity that he has down in AAA up to the Majors then he should be starting everyday. Yet so far especially earlier this season he wasn't doing that, if his plate discipline has improved then we should give him a shot because I've always liked him as a player.

 

The Cubs SS's this year (DeRosa 4 AB's, Fontenot 10 AB's, Theriot 128 AB's, Izturis 184 AB's, Cedeno 22 AB's) have an OPS of .642. Theriot and Izturis combined have an OPS of .637 this year.

 

Cedeno in 225 AB's in AAA has an OPS of .998. Even if he has a dropoff of .300 (which is a HUGE dropoff) that would still make him better than what Izturis and Theriot are currently putting up.

[Mephistopheles]

stop using batting average

[Guest]

You said this:

 

Um, I know Fielder is having a great year, but I'd still want Derrek Lee the rest of the year.

 

A. You're an idiot if you didn't think you would be inferring that you thought Lee was better.

B. If you are saying Fielder is better, and you prefer an inferior player like Lee, what the hell are you trying to say? You want to lose?

A. Crossing the line to attacking the person

[Keener98]

You said this:

 

Um, I know Fielder is having a great year, but I'd still want Derrek Lee the rest of the year.

 

A. You're an idiot if you didn't think you would be inferring that you thought Lee was better.

B. If you are saying Fielder is better, and you prefer an inferior player like Lee, what the hell are you trying to say? You want to lose?

A. Crossing the line to attacking the person

 

And this is something new with him?

[TruffleShuffle]

You said this:

 

Um, I know Fielder is having a great year, but I'd still want Derrek Lee the rest of the year.

 

A. You're an idiot if you didn't think you would be inferring that you thought Lee was better.

B. If you are saying Fielder is better, and you prefer an inferior player like Lee, what the hell are you trying to say? You want to lose?

A. Crossing the line to attacking the person

 

And this is something new with him?

 

he knows stuff about the draft, so he gets more leeway

[USSoccer]

Fielder is better than Lee today, and will be better than him for the rest of time going forward, barring injury. There's no legit argument that favors Lee.

 

However, Ramirez is better than Braun. I'm not brooking argument on that.

 

Cedeno should be starting right now at SS. Pie should be in CF, and whoever posted that Theriot is better than Reyes better have been kidding.

[Abe Frohman]

bp:

 

Infield. The clearest edge is at shortstop, where J.J. Hardy, having regressed to something resembling a sustainable level of performance, still rates miles ahead of Cesar Izturis or Ryan Theriot; note also that the Cubs’ best shortstop option is currently playing at Triple-A. The infield corners present interesting quandaries about hot first halves against established performances, but even most Cub fans would concede that they’d prefer Prince Fielder to Derrek Lee the rest of the way out, while third base looks like a wash. Edge: Brewers

 

 

cedeno should be starting. no doubt. if you're against this you're against winning.

 

"If you're against this you're against winning?"

 

You mean the same kind of winning that the Cubs have been doing with Ryan Theriot at SS?

[CubinNY]

bp:

 

Infield. The clearest edge is at shortstop, where J.J. Hardy, having regressed to something resembling a sustainable level of performance, still rates miles ahead of Cesar Izturis or Ryan Theriot; note also that the Cubs’ best shortstop option is currently playing at Triple-A. The infield corners present interesting quandaries about hot first halves against established performances, but even most Cub fans would concede that they’d prefer Prince Fielder to Derrek Lee the rest of the way out, while third base looks like a wash. Edge: Brewers

 

 

cedeno should be starting. no doubt. if you're against this you're against winning.

 

"If you're against this you're against winning?"

 

You mean the same kind of winning that the Cubs have been doing with Ryan Theriot at SS?

There is a hole in your logic large enough to drive an aircraft carrier through. At the same time Asmodai's argument is the sort of thing W would be proud of.

 

That said, I'd like to see Cedeno playing every day. But I'd like to see Murton and Pie playing too. That won't be happening either.

[Abe Frohman]

There is a hole in your logic large enough to drive an aircraft carrier through. At the same time Asmodai's argument is the sort of thing W would be proud of.

 

That said, I'd like to see Cedeno playing every day. But I'd like to see Murton and Pie playing too. That won't be happening either.

 

What? Please explain. Here in the nonfantasysabremetricswhatever world the Cubs are one of the hottest teams in baseball.

 

Why exactly would you change what is working? Pie, Murton, and Cedeno have ALL shown that they can't handle a Major League job with the Cubs. Theriot, Pagan, and the other players who have been put in the lineup are part of the reason the Cubs are now considered contenders.

 

They have been producing. The Cubs have been winning.

 

That is all that matters.

[Elrhino]

i thought our brains were past the part where there are no AAAA players. Only MLB players who dont get a fair shot.

 

Your brain must have forgot Jason Dubois and Bobby Hill.

[Drew Doughty]

we should never try to fix problems because we win for a stretch of games.

 

infallible.