Assessment on Zambrano?

[Cubbie_Gal]

hill's outpitched him for months. it's not even really close.

 

Months? Are we talking just this year (in which case, this doesn't make sense, nobody uses pre-season in a comparison between players). Or are you including last season? I may be braindead, but I don't even remember Hill doing anything significant last year. All I can recollect is that he was one of many going up and down last year as players came on/off the DL.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

You sure have. Hill's ERA's was I think in the top ten list in all of Baseball post all star break last year. He had 8 or 9, REALLY good starts. That looked just as good as his starts this year. You aren't remembering correctly if you don't remember how awesome Rich was even late last year, through several starts in a row at the end of the season. .

 

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I was probably so depressed during the second half of last year I just stopped paying attention. My bad. :oops:

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm deffinatly not the one who has said that. I think the only thing I'm arguing with Zambrano is, that he is going to get worse overall (while still having crazy stuff I admit) if he does not work on those walks, and soon.

 

Walks are bad, Carlos is good. He has the ability to walk a lot of people and still be extremely successful. It's a problem, but he'll be just fine.

[A New Era]

I'm deffinatly not the one who has said that. I think the only thing I'm arguing with Zambrano is, that he is going to get worse overall (while still having crazy stuff I admit) if he does not work on those walks, and soon.

 

Walks are bad, Carlos is good. He has the ability to walk a lot of people and still be extremely successful. It's a problem, but he'll be just fine.

 

It's the fact that he walks so many that he racks up such high pitch counts. If he walks do not improve (atleast a little bit) from last year, then he will consistantly be leaving earlier in games and not being able to go 6-7 innings. And that kind of hurts your team in a small way. As well as putting more strain on himself. The question is, how much of a "horse" is he really. How much can his body keep taking. I'm not saying he's gonna be terrible. I'm just saying he has to cut back on his walks a little bit.

[Productive Outs]

I'm deffinatly not the one who has said that. I think the only thing I'm arguing with Zambrano is, that he is going to get worse overall (while still having crazy stuff I admit) if he does not work on those walks, and soon.

 

Walks are bad, Carlos is good. He has the ability to walk a lot of people and still be extremely successful. It's a problem, but he'll be just fine.

 

if his bb/9 is 2006 was an aberration, i think he will be fine. if it isn't, then he is going to have a hard time.

[A New Era]

I'm deffinatly not the one who has said that. I think the only thing I'm arguing with Zambrano is, that he is going to get worse overall (while still having crazy stuff I admit) if he does not work on those walks, and soon.

 

Walks are bad, Carlos is good. He has the ability to walk a lot of people and still be extremely successful. It's a problem, but he'll be just fine.

 

if his bb/9 is 2006 was an aberration, i think he will be fine. if it isn't, then he is going to have a hard time.

 

Yeah that's what I was trying to say. If his walks don't go down. . . Even a pitcher with the best "stuff" in baseball can't continue to escape trouble if his walks go up even more than Z had last year.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm deffinatly not the one who has said that. I think the only thing I'm arguing with Zambrano is, that he is going to get worse overall (while still having crazy stuff I admit) if he does not work on those walks, and soon.

 

Walks are bad, Carlos is good. He has the ability to walk a lot of people and still be extremely successful. It's a problem, but he'll be just fine.

 

It's the fact that he walks so many that he racks up such high pitch counts. If he walks do not improve (atleast a little bit) from last year, then he will consistantly be leaving earlier in games and not being able to go 6-7 innings. And that kind of hurts your team in a small way. As well as putting more strain on himself. The question is, how much of a "horse" is he really. How much can his body keep taking. I'm not saying he's gonna be terrible. I'm just saying he has to cut back on his walks a little bit.

 

Nobody is arguing that it's good that he walks a bunch of people. Everyone knows it's bad. It's terrible. The stories of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

[VanceJergins]

hill's outpitched him for months. it's not even really close.

 

Months? Are we talking just this year (in which case, this doesn't make sense, nobody uses pre-season in a comparison between players). Or are you including last season? I may be braindead, but I don't even remember Hill doing anything significant last year. All I can recollect is that he was one of many going up and down last year as players came on/off the DL.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

:cry:

[Handlebar McSkullet]

Another classic chicago sports argument. One cant be good without the other one being bad.

 

Show some perspective kids. Zamby has sucked so far this year, but it doesnt change the fact that he is one of the best pitchers in the league and has been for 3 or 4 years. Zambrano walks a ton of batters, but his era, strikeouts, wins, innings the last four years, amazing. It also doesnt mean Hill is overrrated or underrated. He has been unbelievable. Probably the best pitcher in the majors so far. But its so early.

 

Michael Young is batting .180 so far. I doubt ranger fans are piling into Ameriquest aka Ranger aka Texas toast field with pitch forks and crosses waiting to attack him. I also doubt Toronto's Aaron Hill is worried about who will introduce him during the Hall of Fame induction ceremonies either.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

hill's outpitched him for months. it's not even really close.

 

Months? Are we talking just this year (in which case, this doesn't make sense, nobody uses pre-season in a comparison between players). Or are you including last season? I may be braindead, but I don't even remember Hill doing anything significant last year. All I can recollect is that he was one of many going up and down last year as players came on/off the DL.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

You missed August and September of last season.

[A New Era]

I'm deffinatly not the one who has said that. I think the only thing I'm arguing with Zambrano is, that he is going to get worse overall (while still having crazy stuff I admit) if he does not work on those walks, and soon.

 

Walks are bad, Carlos is good. He has the ability to walk a lot of people and still be extremely successful. It's a problem, but he'll be just fine.

 

It's the fact that he walks so many that he racks up such high pitch counts. If he walks do not improve (atleast a little bit) from last year, then he will consistantly be leaving earlier in games and not being able to go 6-7 innings. And that kind of hurts your team in a small way. As well as putting more strain on himself. The question is, how much of a "horse" is he really. How much can his body keep taking. I'm not saying he's gonna be terrible. I'm just saying he has to cut back on his walks a little bit.

 

Nobody is arguing that it's good that he walks a bunch of people. Everyone knows it's bad. It's terrible. The stories of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

 

What stories of his demise?

[seanimal]

What stories of his demise?

 

It's a Mark Twain quote.

 

(while living in London, a story was printed in the States that Twain had perished, so he wrote the newspaper saying something along the lines of 'rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated'.)

[Ender]

I dunno, Zambrano was a good pitcher all of two months last year but he was just amazing those two months. The rest of the year he was average to below average. 2004 was the last year he was consisently good month to month, 2005 and 2006 he was all over the place. I'd personally be very worried about the start.

[Soul]

I don't see how someone couldn't be concerned.

 

The guy is sucking. Just because he's pulled out of it in other seasons doesn't mean he will this year. He's also never been quite *this* bad in April, IIRC.

 

Sure, I'm hoping he'll snap to it. I'm definitely concerned though. I think his velocity looks alright -- that's something good at least. Doesn't look to me like he might be injured or anything (knock on wood..........bad pun).

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't see how someone couldn't be concerned.

 

The guy is sucking. Just because he's pulled out of it in other seasons doesn't mean he will this year. He's also never been quite *this* bad in April, IIRC.

 

Sure, I'm hoping he'll snap to it. I'm definitely concerned though. I think his velocity looks alright -- that's something good at least. Doesn't look to me like he might be injured or anything (knock on wood..........bad pun).

 

Yeah, I'm not sure how anybody can be completely unconcerned either. I'm not panicking or giving up or anything. But, it's troubling.

 

 

It would be something if all 3 of Dusty's big 3 went down with injury after he levelled such tremendous abuse on their arms. I predicted 2 when he came on board.

[soapy]

Things do change fast in baseball though. The fact that he's been one of the best pitchers in baseball for four years may even be a bad sign. How many pitchers are truly dominant for a longer period? Some, but not many.

 

i see no evidence that leads me to believe that this is anything but a slow start. if he's got a 5+ era at the end of the season, then i'll concede he's had a bad year.

 

but please don't imply that a 25 year-old pitcher who's done nothing but be very good is on the downside of his career.

 

i generally agree, but not completely with the bolded. his (over)use over the last few years has been well documented and his walk rate has risen over that span. i wouldn't say there is no reason for concern, but i would say it's minimal.

 

i still think he'll be fine and people are probably jumping on him a bit too much, but i wouldn't say it's a foregone conclusion. i worry there might be an injury.