How did we lose Josh Hamilton again??

[mokenacub]

Before i start i totally understand that we have a log jam of outfielders, but will someone please explain to me how we first had Josh Hamilton and then gave him up in the Rule 5 Draft? Nothing against Floyd and I do realize Hamilton has a very checkered history, but given the choice wouldn't you rather have Hamilton. I know it is very early in a long season, i just feel that if you were only going to sign Floyd for 1 season, why not take the chance on a younger player with more upside. Or we could have traded Jock for a bag-o-balls.

I am posting this without 100% knowledge of the situation. Any information is appreciated.

 

Cubs 2007 record 5-9.

Cubs 2007 when I attend 2-0. Next game Sunday vs. St.Louis.

[Derwood]

Before i start i totally understand that we have a log jam of outfielders, but will someone please explain to me how we first had Josh Hamilton and then gave him up in the Rule 5 Draft? Nothing against Floyd and I do realize Hamilton has a very checkered history, but given the choice wouldn't you rather have Hamilton. I know it is very early in a long season, i just feel that if you were only going to sign Floyd for 1 season, why not take the chance on a younger player with more upside. Or we could have traded Jock for a bag-o-balls.

I am posting this without 100% knowledge of the situation. Any information is appreciated.

 

Cubs 2007 record 5-9.

Cubs 2007 when I attend 2-0. Next game Sunday vs. St.Louis.

 

The Cubs took Hamilton from Tampa Bay in the Rule 5, then traded him to Cincinnati

[Outshined_One]

The Cubs took Hamilton from Tampa Bay in the Rule 5, then traded him to Cincinnati

 

Apparently, the Cubs had an agreement with Cincy prior to the Rule 5 Draft that they would select Hamilton and trade him to the Reds in exchange for cash considerations.

[NCCubFan]

Apparently, the Cubs had an agreement with Cincy prior to the Rule 5 Draft that they would select Hamilton and trade him to the Reds in exchange for cash considerations.

Exactly. The Cubs themselves weren't interested in Hamilton; it was a pre-arranged deal. I believe at the time the Cubs and Reds came to the agreement the Reds hadn't even told the Cubs specifically what player it would be. It wasn't until the Cubs' turn in the draft came up that the Reds revealed the player was Hamilton. Without that deal the Cubs never would have drafted Hamilton in the first place.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hamilton had barely played in the past 3(maybe 4?) seasons, and according to rule 5 rules you have to keep him on your big league roster all year. It would've been a waste.

[RichHillIsABeast]

No. The Cubs had an agreement prior to the draft to trade their Rule 5 pick to Cinci for cash. They only found out the name when Cinci gave it to them moments before they were to pick.

 

The idea that we ever "had" Josh Hamilton is incorrect.

[davearm]

No. The Cubs had an agreement prior to the draft to trade their Rule 5 pick to Cinci for cash. They only found out the name when Cinci gave it to them moments before they were to pick.

 

The idea that we ever "had" Josh Hamilton is incorrect.

I suspect Bud Selig would be very interested to see your evidence of this, since it is against the rules to trade draft picks.

[Andy]

No. The Cubs had an agreement prior to the draft to trade their Rule 5 pick to Cinci for cash. They only found out the name when Cinci gave it to them moments before they were to pick.

 

The idea that we ever "had" Josh Hamilton is incorrect.

I suspect Bud Selig would be very interested to see your evidence of this, since it is against the rules to trade draft picks.

Rule 5 draft picks are a different story.

[davearm]

No. The Cubs had an agreement prior to the draft to trade their Rule 5 pick to Cinci for cash. They only found out the name when Cinci gave it to them moments before they were to pick.

 

The idea that we ever "had" Josh Hamilton is incorrect.

I suspect Bud Selig would be very interested to see your evidence of this, since it is against the rules to trade draft picks.

Rule 5 draft picks are a different story.

The pick itself cannot be traded.

 

The Cubs were under no obligation to select Hamilton, and once they did, they were under no obligation to trade him to Cincy.

 

There was clearly a handshake agreement in place, but the Cubs could've walked away from it at any point along the way if they had wanted to... before the Reds revealed Hamilton was their guy, after the Reds revealed Hamilton was their guy, or even after the Cubs selected Hamilton.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I've been hearing good things about Josh Hamilton. Did the Cubs take a look at this kid before trading him to the Reds, and who did we get back in the trade?

-- Pat C., Chicago

 

In case you don't know the background, the Cubs drafted Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft, then traded him to the Reds. The Cubs had no intention of picking anyone in the Rule 5 draft last December. Keep in mind that if a team picks someone, it must keep that player on the Major League roster the entire season or return him to the original team. The Cubs had other intentions and roster limitations.

 

Because the Cubs had a high pick, the Reds approached them and offered cash in exchange for that pick. The Cubs did not know who they were choosing until someone from the Reds slipped them a piece of paper with Hamilton's name on it seconds before their selection.

 

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[davearm]

I've been hearing good things about Josh Hamilton. Did the Cubs take a look at this kid before trading him to the Reds, and who did we get back in the trade?

-- Pat C., Chicago

 

In case you don't know the background, the Cubs drafted Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft, then traded him to the Reds. The Cubs had no intention of picking anyone in the Rule 5 draft last December. Keep in mind that if a team picks someone, it must keep that player on the Major League roster the entire season or return him to the original team. The Cubs had other intentions and roster limitations.

 

Because the Cubs had a high pick, the Reds approached them and offered cash in exchange for that pick. The Cubs did not know who they were choosing until someone from the Reds slipped them a piece of paper with Hamilton's name on it seconds before their selection.

 

link

That doesn't change the fact that the Cubs could've bagged the whole deal the second before getting that slip of paper, the second after getting that slip of paper, or the second after selecting Hamilton.

 

Hamilton *was* Cubs property, albeit only for a few minutes.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I've been hearing good things about Josh Hamilton. Did the Cubs take a look at this kid before trading him to the Reds, and who did we get back in the trade?

-- Pat C., Chicago

 

In case you don't know the background, the Cubs drafted Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft, then traded him to the Reds. The Cubs had no intention of picking anyone in the Rule 5 draft last December. Keep in mind that if a team picks someone, it must keep that player on the Major League roster the entire season or return him to the original team. The Cubs had other intentions and roster limitations.

 

Because the Cubs had a high pick, the Reds approached them and offered cash in exchange for that pick. The Cubs did not know who they were choosing until someone from the Reds slipped them a piece of paper with Hamilton's name on it seconds before their selection.

 

link

That doesn't change the fact that the Cubs could've bagged the whole deal the second before getting that slip of paper, the second after getting that slip of paper, or the second after selecting Hamilton.

 

Hamilton *was* Cubs property, albeit only for a few minutes.

 

Sure they could have. But if they already knew Hamilton was available and went into the draft not wanting to take anyone, why would they change their minds then?

[CubColtPacer]

I've been hearing good things about Josh Hamilton. Did the Cubs take a look at this kid before trading him to the Reds, and who did we get back in the trade?

-- Pat C., Chicago

 

In case you don't know the background, the Cubs drafted Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft, then traded him to the Reds. The Cubs had no intention of picking anyone in the Rule 5 draft last December. Keep in mind that if a team picks someone, it must keep that player on the Major League roster the entire season or return him to the original team. The Cubs had other intentions and roster limitations.

 

Because the Cubs had a high pick, the Reds approached them and offered cash in exchange for that pick. The Cubs did not know who they were choosing until someone from the Reds slipped them a piece of paper with Hamilton's name on it seconds before their selection.

 

link

That doesn't change the fact that the Cubs could've bagged the whole deal the second before getting that slip of paper, the second after getting that slip of paper, or the second after selecting Hamilton.

 

True, but you better have quite a reason to do so-normally, there's not enough of one to make the other GM's in the league upset by breaking an agreement.

[davearm]

I've been hearing good things about Josh Hamilton. Did the Cubs take a look at this kid before trading him to the Reds, and who did we get back in the trade?

-- Pat C., Chicago

 

In case you don't know the background, the Cubs drafted Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft, then traded him to the Reds. The Cubs had no intention of picking anyone in the Rule 5 draft last December. Keep in mind that if a team picks someone, it must keep that player on the Major League roster the entire season or return him to the original team. The Cubs had other intentions and roster limitations.

 

Because the Cubs had a high pick, the Reds approached them and offered cash in exchange for that pick. The Cubs did not know who they were choosing until someone from the Reds slipped them a piece of paper with Hamilton's name on it seconds before their selection.

 

link

That doesn't change the fact that the Cubs could've bagged the whole deal the second before getting that slip of paper, the second after getting that slip of paper, or the second after selecting Hamilton.

 

Hamilton *was* Cubs property, albeit only for a few minutes.

 

Sure they could have. But if they already knew Hamilton was available and went into the draft not wanting to take anyone, why would they change their minds then?

The only reason that I can think of would be if they got squirmy at the possiblity of Hamilton "finding himself" in the NLC, and terrorizing the Cubs 19 times a year.

 

I know personally I'd much prefer it if it was some AL team that was taking the flyer on this guy.

[davearm]

I've been hearing good things about Josh Hamilton. Did the Cubs take a look at this kid before trading him to the Reds, and who did we get back in the trade?

-- Pat C., Chicago

 

In case you don't know the background, the Cubs drafted Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft, then traded him to the Reds. The Cubs had no intention of picking anyone in the Rule 5 draft last December. Keep in mind that if a team picks someone, it must keep that player on the Major League roster the entire season or return him to the original team. The Cubs had other intentions and roster limitations.

 

Because the Cubs had a high pick, the Reds approached them and offered cash in exchange for that pick. The Cubs did not know who they were choosing until someone from the Reds slipped them a piece of paper with Hamilton's name on it seconds before their selection.

 

link

That doesn't change the fact that the Cubs could've bagged the whole deal the second before getting that slip of paper, the second after getting that slip of paper, or the second after selecting Hamilton.

 

True, but you better have quite a reason to do so-normally, there's not enough of one to make the other GM's in the league upset by breaking an agreement.

I agree. Hendry's too much of a standup guy to go back on his deal.

 

I was just pointing out that nothing was official with the Reds until after Hamilton was Cubs property, and technically, they could've kept him (or offered him back to TB, or not taken him in the first place, etc.).

 

RichHill characterized the situation as being completely out of the Cubs' hands before the pick was even made. That's not true.

[NCCubFan]

RichHill characterized the situation as being completely out of the Cubs' hands before the pick was even made. That's not true.

It may not be true technically, but it is practically speaking; no need to get hung up on semantics. The Cubs had an agreement that teams simply don't break. If the Cubs did break it, the Reds would certainly get revenge in the future (possibly by blocking the Cubs from trading a player during the waiver period, possibly by preventing the Cubs from sending a player down on waivers).

[wade]

Hamilton is a good story this year, but it's hindsight to say anyone knew he'd be this good after having not played, let alone be able to stay off the coke.

 

I hope he keeps his life together. You gotta pull for people that battle an addiction.

[Soriano12]

I hope he keeps his life together. You gotta pull for people that battle an addiction.

 

I'm not pulling for him, thats for sure. What a waste.

[CoolHandLuke]

He hadn't played above short season A ball since 2002. It was a very long shot, low risk, high reward move by the reds, and it would have been absolutely foolish for any team to bank on him being a solid 4th oufielder.

[wade]

I hope he keeps his life together. You gotta pull for people that battle an addiction.

 

I'm not pulling for him, thats for sure. What a waste.

 

Did he not follow step 9 and apologize to you for something?

[98navigator]

I hope he keeps his life together. You gotta pull for people that battle an addiction.

 

I'm not pulling for him, thats for sure. What a waste.

 

[thread hijack] I agree. I'm not going to expend energy rooting for someone who has failed without the assistance of others! I don't understand why people who have abused drugs, done time, or--pick the infraction--, deserve our support. He's to blame for his problems and he has to earn some credibility. Lost in the shuffle of this "feel good story" are the guys who succeed without succumbing to pressure or those who don't get a second chance. The guy is lucky to be in this position.[/thread hijack]

[Soriano12]

I hope he keeps his life together. You gotta pull for people that battle an addiction.

 

I'm not pulling for him, thats for sure. What a waste.

 

Did he not follow step 9 and apologize to you for something?

 

Nope...just don't feel bad for a coke head that wasted a ton of his talents while others would dream for such ability and chance to play in baseball.

 

I also find it funny that if Hamilton was black, he would be labled as just some "thug", rather than some poor soul fighting his addiction. (FWIW I am white).

Edited April 19, 2007 by Soriano12

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I hope he keeps his life together. You gotta pull for people that battle an addiction.

 

I'm not pulling for him, thats for sure. What a waste.

 

[thread hijack] I agree. I'm not going to expend energy rooting for someone who has failed without the assistance of others! I don't understand why people who have abused drugs, done time, or--pick the infraction--, deserve our support. He's to blame for his problems and he has to earn some credibility. Lost in the shuffle of this "feel good story" are the guys who succeed without succumbing to pressure or those who don't get a second chance. The guy is lucky to be in this position.[/thread hijack]

 

Yes he his, and I'm sure he knows that. If he stays straight and lives up to his potential, it's still a good story. Battling an addiction is about as difficult as anything anyone can ever do. He should not be forever condemned for making stupid mistakes with drugs at a young age.

[wade]

I hope he keeps his life together. You gotta pull for people that battle an addiction.

 

I'm not pulling for him, thats for sure. What a waste.

 

[thread hijack] I agree. I'm not going to expend energy rooting for someone who has failed without the assistance of others! I don't understand why people who have abused drugs, done time, or--pick the infraction--, deserve our support. He's to blame for his problems and he has to earn some credibility. Lost in the shuffle of this "feel good story" are the guys who succeed without succumbing to pressure or those who don't get a second chance. The guy is lucky to be in this position.[/thread hijack]

 

It doesn't take a whole lot of energy for me to hope that people can kick an addiction that could lead to theirs or someone else's death.

[wade]

I hope he keeps his life together. You gotta pull for people that battle an addiction.

 

I'm not pulling for him, thats for sure. What a waste.

 

Did he not follow step 9 and apologize to you for something?

 

Nope...just don't feel bad for a coke head that wasted a ton of his talents while others would dream for such ability and chance to play in baseball.

 

I also find it funny that if Hamilton was black, he would be labled as just some "thug", rather than some poor soul fighting his addiction. (FWIW I am white).

 

So people didn't pull for Doc Gooden to come back from all his problems and give him second chances because he's black?

 

I dream of the ability too, but I find it hard to be unsympathetic just because I haven't had the misfortune of dealing with some serious problems myself.