Miller on Sunday (predictions)

[VanceJergins]

There's no reason to waste 3 more games to see if the $1m investment in Wade Miller will pan out.

 

I'd give him one more start. If he's terrible again, I'd stick him in the bullpen, and DFA him the instant Prior is back. I honestly could care less about Wade Miller. If he can't throw harder than 88 with no movement, he shouldn't be on the team in any capacity.

Why even stick him in the pen? I'd rather see Cherry there. Just DFA him and get on with it.

 

Maybe we could try to get something for him and Eyre.....if we throw in some sandwiches we might be looking at getting a C prospect in return.

[seanimal]

There's no reason to waste 3 more games to see if the $1m investment in Wade Miller will pan out.

 

I'd give him one more start. If he's terrible again, I'd stick him in the bullpen, and DFA him the instant Prior is back. I honestly could care less about Wade Miller. If he can't throw harder than 88 with no movement, he shouldn't be on the team in any capacity.

Why even stick him in the pen? I'd rather see Cherry there. Just DFA him and get on with it.

 

Maybe we could try to get something for him and Eyre.....if we throw in some sandwiches we might be looking at getting a C prospect in return.

 

Or maybe we get the sandwiches for Miller and Eyre. That'd be pretty sweet.

[Soul]

The Cubs paid for at least some of Miller's rehab, right?

 

Maybe that's playing into the decision-making a little bit.

[USSoccer]

The Cubs paid for at least some of Miller's rehab, right?

 

Maybe that's playing into the decision-making a little bit.

 

It shouldn't. If they trot him out for 3 more games and he's beaten around like a pinata again and we lose a couple of them, the two or three losses should mean more than a few hundred thousand dollars in sunken rehab costs.

[papabear58]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

I don't know where you're getting that impression. The people calling for Miller to be removed want Guzman in his stead, not Prior.

[Soul]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

I don't know where you're getting that impression. The people calling for Miller to be removed want Guzman in his stead, not Prior.

 

IMO Guzman represents our future more than Prior at this point. That's why I'd like to see him get some starts.

 

As for Marky Mark I think it's best we not count on him for anything anymore. Which the Cubs appear to be doing.

[Banedon]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

Prior isn't in the majors though, is he?

[papabear58]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

I don't know where you're getting that impression. The people calling for Miller to be removed want Guzman in his stead, not Prior.

 

It's more an overall impression since comming to this board. I've been suprised by some people calling for players to be removed or play this guy not that guy. I also remember a few posts about Prior and Miller from spring training and remember seeing frustration about Prior not making it again. I'm just wondering how much of this impatients stems from anger at Prior rather then anger at Miller. If there is anger at Miller for one bad start then I'm worried.

[CubColtPacer]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

I don't know where you're getting that impression. The people calling for Miller to be removed want Guzman in his stead, not Prior.

 

It's more an overall impression since comming to this board. I've been suprised by some people calling for players to be removed or play this guy not that guy. I also remember a few posts about Prior and Miller from spring training and remember seeing frustration about Prior not making it again. I'm just wondering how much of this impatients stems from anger at Prior rather then anger at Miller. If there is anger at Miller for one bad start then I'm worried.

 

I think that one thing has to be remembered is that most people are not that familiar with the new stuff that Miller has. Most people weren't watching by the time Miller took the mound in late September last year. In spring, most people didn't get to see very much of him either. So they can only hear reports of his possible stuff, and Miller's stuff doesn't sound that impressive because he doesn't have the high velocity.

 

So when they finally do see a start of his, and Miller looks really bad with his stuff not fooling anyone, it's easy to say that his stuff is not any better than that. Is it better than that? I would say it would have to be, because he was fooling hitters both in September and during the spring. I can't say that for sure though, and I can't blame people who thought Guzman should have been the guy who made it out of ST and pointing to that start as evidence of that.

[VVMattVV]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

I don't know where you're getting that impression. The people calling for Miller to be removed want Guzman in his stead, not Prior.

 

It's more an overall impression since comming to this board. I've been suprised by some people calling for players to be removed or play this guy not that guy. I also remember a few posts about Prior and Miller from spring training and remember seeing frustration about Prior not making it again. I'm just wondering how much of this impatients stems from anger at Prior rather then anger at Miller. If there is anger at Miller for one bad start then I'm worried.

 

If Miller came out with good stuff and got rocked around, I think some would be optimistic his command would improve and he'd be servicable. He didn't have either of them, and there isn't much reason to believe he'll ever recover his old form. I still don't know why Piniella picked him to be the fifth starter, Miller's recent history isn't impressive and I think its stupid to give away a spot based on spring training results. I don't think any of the "impatience" really has anything to do with Prior. Like TT said, we wanted Guzman to win the spot over Miller. If Guzman started and had a rough outing, he would still have the stuff and upside to bounce back.

 

Does anyone really think Miller has become a finesse pitcher like some have made him out to be? I always thought that was a baseless argument.

[papabear58]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

I don't know where you're getting that impression. The people calling for Miller to be removed want Guzman in his stead, not Prior.

 

It's more an overall impression since comming to this board. I've been suprised by some people calling for players to be removed or play this guy not that guy. I also remember a few posts about Prior and Miller from spring training and remember seeing frustration about Prior not making it again. I'm just wondering how much of this impatients stems from anger at Prior rather then anger at Miller. If there is anger at Miller for one bad start then I'm worried.

 

If Miller came out with good stuff and got rocked around, I think some would be optimistic his command would improve and he'd be servicable. He didn't have either of them, and there isn't much reason to believe he'll ever recover his old form. I still don't know why Piniella picked him to be the fifth starter, Miller's recent history isn't impressive and I think its stupid to give away a spot based on spring training results. I don't think any of the "impatience" really has anything to do with Prior. Like TT said, we wanted Guzman to win the spot over Miller. If Guzman started and had a rough outing, he would still have the stuff and upside to bounce back.

 

Does anyone really think Miller has become a finesse pitcher like some have made him out to be? I always thought that was a baseless argument.

 

I like the idea of being able to protect a good young pitcher from the bullpen if at all possible. Protect his pitch counts, protect his mentality, and limit his visibility to oposing hitters. The only catch is that you have a get him enough innings regularly to allow him to still develop. Will Piniella do that? I don't know yet, but I think it shouldn't be too hard, especially if Miller doesn't recover as you believe he won't.

[CubColtPacer]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

I don't know where you're getting that impression. The people calling for Miller to be removed want Guzman in his stead, not Prior.

 

It's more an overall impression since comming to this board. I've been suprised by some people calling for players to be removed or play this guy not that guy. I also remember a few posts about Prior and Miller from spring training and remember seeing frustration about Prior not making it again. I'm just wondering how much of this impatients stems from anger at Prior rather then anger at Miller. If there is anger at Miller for one bad start then I'm worried.

 

If Miller came out with good stuff and got rocked around, I think some would be optimistic his command would improve and he'd be servicable. He didn't have either of them, and there isn't much reason to believe he'll ever recover his old form. I still don't know why Piniella picked him to be the fifth starter, Miller's recent history isn't impressive and I think its stupid to give away a spot based on spring training results. I don't think any of the "impatience" really has anything to do with Prior. Like TT said, we wanted Guzman to win the spot over Miller. If Guzman started and had a rough outing, he would still have the stuff and upside to bounce back.

 

Does anyone really think Miller has become a finesse pitcher like some have made him out to be? I always thought that was a baseless argument.

 

I don't think he's a finesse pitcher. From the 5-6 starts I have seen of him since he came back from his injury, his pitches had a lot of movement on them-which allowed him to get lots of swings and misses and helped minimize his mistakes. From the report yesterday, that wasn't true yesterday. If he has one more start and doesn't have that movement on his pitches, he will need to be replaced immediately after that start.

[USSoccer]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

This has nothing to do with Prior. If you'll read what's being written, people are stating the obvious fact that if Wade Miller is going to throw 85-88 pmh with no movement, he shouldn't be on the roster. That's the point of depth-we shouldn't have to put up with crap in any role.

[papabear58]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

This has nothing to do with Prior. If you'll read what's being written, people are stating the obvious fact that if Wade Miller is going to throw 85-88 pmh with no movement, he shouldn't be on the roster. That's the point of depth-we shouldn't have to put up with crap in any role.

 

So you put Guzman in the five spot, then call up an arm from AAA to fill the long reliever spot (fill in name of picked prospect here). Then Guzman struggles and/or his pitch counts go too high in order to win ballgames. Then we start hearing cries of overuse and ruining his career ala Dusty Baker. What do you do? Do you send him back to the minors? Do you promote the person you brought up as the long reliever? No continutiy or otherwise.

 

That's not to say that he might not be great too. But I prefer him where he can pitch in more manageable roles and let him play his way into the starting lineup rather then letting Miller play his way out. If you do the latter we could very well end up with a rotating fifth spot for the rest of the year (thankfully it's better then a rotating rotation). I for one think you leave him where he is and let him show you that he's ready to be in the rotation. I guess I just see it differently.

[USSoccer]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

This has nothing to do with Prior. If you'll read what's being written, people are stating the obvious fact that if Wade Miller is going to throw 85-88 pmh with no movement, he shouldn't be on the roster. That's the point of depth-we shouldn't have to put up with crap in any role.

 

So you put Guzman in the five spot, then call up an arm from AAA to fill the long reliever spot (fill in name of picked prospect here). Then Guzman struggles and/or his pitch counts go too high in order to win ballgames. Then we start hearing cries of overuse and ruining his career ala Dusty Baker. What do you do? Do you send him back to the minors? Do you promote the person you brought up as the long reliever? No continutiy or otherwise.

 

That's not to say that he might not be great too. But I prefer him where he can pitch in more manageable roles and let him play his way into the starting lineup rather then letting Miller play his way out. If you do the latter we could very well end up with a rotating fifth spot for the rest of the year (thankfully it's better then a rotating rotation). I for one think you leave him where he is and let him show you that he's ready to be in the rotation. I guess I just see it differently.

 

What?

 

For one thing you're painting a fairly unrealistic scenario. Guzman having a high pitch count isn't going to have anything to do with the team's success. Second, you're assuming high pitch counts will have a correlation with Guzman not winning ballgames, which it won't. Finally, you're assuming high pitch counts will lead to cries of overuse. I'm assuming Lou isn't going to be Dustyesque when it comes to pitch counts. Your argument makes no sense.

 

Miller isn't going to keep us in many ballgames pitching like he did yesterday. I could care less about continuity. I don't care about "playing his way into the rotation". I care about putting the team in a position to win. Guzman is a better pitcher than Miller. Velocity, movement, control-Guzman is better in every respect. I'd rather see the better pitcher in a starting role. He's not going to be able to show you much pitching in mop up duty. Mop up duty is for the pitcher who isn't any good, and that's Wade Miller.

[USSoccer]

Let me just sum this up:

 

With all the emphasis on depth in the rotation, there's no reason to tolerate below average performance from a pitcher we have nothing invested in, and should have no organizational attachment to.

 

If Wade Miller can't at least get movement on his pitches, or gain a few mph on his fastball, he should be let go with no hesitation. We are not a good enough team to be able to sacrifice 3 starts to see if he can give us anything, especially when we have a obviously viable alternative immediately available.

[papabear58]

WOW, is it just me or is this board viscious. One start and we are ready to push him out. I hate to tell you this, but Prior hasn't been above 88-89 and he's not hitting his breaking ball every time he goes out. I can't determine if this is angst against Miller because of his pitching, or because he replaced Prior and people are still pissed about Prior not living up to their expectations.

 

This has nothing to do with Prior. If you'll read what's being written, people are stating the obvious fact that if Wade Miller is going to throw 85-88 pmh with no movement, he shouldn't be on the roster. That's the point of depth-we shouldn't have to put up with crap in any role.

 

So you put Guzman in the five spot, then call up an arm from AAA to fill the long reliever spot (fill in name of picked prospect here). Then Guzman struggles and/or his pitch counts go too high in order to win ballgames. Then we start hearing cries of overuse and ruining his career ala Dusty Baker. What do you do? Do you send him back to the minors? Do you promote the person you brought up as the long reliever? No continutiy or otherwise.

 

That's not to say that he might not be great too. But I prefer him where he can pitch in more manageable roles and let him play his way into the starting lineup rather then letting Miller play his way out. If you do the latter we could very well end up with a rotating fifth spot for the rest of the year (thankfully it's better then a rotating rotation). I for one think you leave him where he is and let him show you that he's ready to be in the rotation. I guess I just see it differently.

 

What?

 

For one thing you're painting a fairly unrealistic scenario. Guzman having a high pitch count isn't going to have anything to do with the team's success. Second, you're assuming high pitch counts will have a correlation with Guzman not winning ballgames, which it won't. Finally, you're assuming high pitch counts will lead to cries of overuse. I'm assuming Lou isn't going to be Dustyesque when it comes to pitch counts. Your argument makes no sense.

 

Miller isn't going to keep us in many ballgames pitching like he did yesterday. I could care less about continuity. I don't care about "playing his way into the rotation". I care about putting the team in a position to win. Guzman is a better pitcher than Miller. Velocity, movement, control-Guzman is better in every respect. I'd rather see the better pitcher in a starting role. He's not going to be able to show you much pitching in mop up duty. Mop up duty is for the pitcher who isn't any good, and that's Wade Miller.

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

[USSoccer]

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

 

The whole point of this is that Wade Miller isn't going to help us win now, and Angel Guzman isn't going to develop pitching once a week in mopup duty.

 

You're arguing a point that's not being made.

[papabear58]

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

 

The whole point of this is that Wade Miller isn't going to help us win now, and Angel Guzman isn't going to develop pitching once a week in mopup duty.

 

You're arguing a point that's not being made.

 

And he isn't going to develop if he gets shelled back into the minors ethier. You are assuming that he will be successful. Can you take a step back and see it if he's not? He might learn more working with Rothschild on his pitching while working in the majors for a seaon then by going back and dominating AAA and not learning what it takes at the big league level. As far as pitching once a week, that comes back to a manager being able to find innings for him as I said earlier and also using him for spot starts as needed (we don't need any yet). I saw his struggles in spring, and I'm not ready to say that he's going to go into the rotation and be an instant success. I don't mind them bringing him along slowly. As far as Miller, you are speculating (though stretching a bit for one start) that he will be unsuccessful. All I'm saying as far as that goes is that one start is hard to judge. He might come out next time and really do well. Hey, lets kick Murton off the team because he's been successful in the past, but has looked like a total hack at times this year. Or how about Soriano, I mean just over .200, sheesh, there's a guy who needs to be shown the door. Even three starts isn't enough in my opinion. But you are already judge, jury, and ready to be exicutioner on Miller with only one start and are saying that three starts is some magic number for judging him.

[VVMattVV]

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

 

The whole point of this is that Wade Miller isn't going to help us win now, and Angel Guzman isn't going to develop pitching once a week in mopup duty.

 

You're arguing a point that's not being made.

 

You're basing this on the assumption that we are condemning Miller for just this one start, when really many haven't wanted him in the rotation since spring training.

 

(on Guzman) I saw his struggles in spring, and I'm not ready to say that he's going to go into the rotation and be an instant success.

 

You say we're basing our opinions on Miller on a small sample size, but you're saying Guzman might struggle because of spring training?

 

Hey, lets kick Murton off the team because he's been successful in the past, but has looked like a total hack at times this year. Or how about Soriano, I mean just over .200, sheesh, there's a guy who needs to be shown the door

 

Completely unrelated. Murton and Soriano have put up good years in recent history, such as Murton's 2nd half last year and Soriano's entire 2006 season. Wade Miller hasn't been successful in a while, and when he was, he had better stuff than he does now.

Edited April 9, 2007 by VVMattVV

[papabear58]

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

 

The whole point of this is that Wade Miller isn't going to help us win now, and Angel Guzman isn't going to develop pitching once a week in mopup duty.

 

You're arguing a point that's not being made.

 

You're basing this on the assumption that we are condemning Miller for just this one start, when really many haven't wanted him in the rotation since spring training.

 

I'm also basing this on the assumption that I don't want Guzman to be thrown directly into the rotation where he might be successful and might get shelled and can't be protected. As long relief you can put him in starting against 7,8,9 hitters to work into games and then leave him in and pull him if he's getting shelled. As a starter he's going to face everyone, and you are much more likely to leave him in because you don't want to abuse the bullpen. Add to that the fact that getting hit hard could cause him to get sent to AAA where he will just continue to see subpar hitting comparativly and I don't see a lot of sense in risking him just to see if he can be successful or not. I guess I'd rather him grow into it and be successful.

[papabear58]

Want to see him developed and not thrown to the wolves. I suppose I might be the only person who thinks that way.

[USSoccer]

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

 

The whole point of this is that Wade Miller isn't going to help us win now, and Angel Guzman isn't going to develop pitching once a week in mopup duty.

 

You're arguing a point that's not being made.

 

And he isn't going to develop if he gets shelled back into the minors ethier. You are assuming that he will be successful. Can you take a step back and see it if he's not? He might learn more working with Rothschild on his pitching while working in the majors for a seaon then by going back and dominating AAA and not learning what it takes at the big league level. As far as pitching once a week, that comes back to a manager being able to find innings for him as I said earlier and also using him for spot starts as needed (we don't need any yet). I saw his struggles in spring, and I'm not ready to say that he's going to go into the rotation and be an instant success. I don't mind them bringing him along slowly. As far as Miller, you are speculating (though stretching a bit for one start) that he will be unsuccessful. All I'm saying as far as that goes is that one start is hard to judge. He might come out next time and really do well. Hey, lets kick Murton off the team because he's been successful in the past, but has looked like a total hack at times this year. Or how about Soriano, I mean just over .200, sheesh, there's a guy who needs to be shown the door. Even three starts isn't enough in my opinion. But you are already judge, jury, and ready to be exicutioner on Miller with only one start and are saying that three starts is some magic number for judging him.

 

Miller suffered a fairly serious shoulder injury and lost 10 mph on his fastball. I'm not stretching anything when I say he's not going to be successful if his pitches aren't going to move. He's never been a location/movement guy. He's been a power pitcher. He no longer has any power.

 

All of your other examples are irrelevant. Murton and Soriano aren't recovering from serious injuries and trying to change their entire approach.

 

As far as Miller coming out an performing well, I don't care if he throws a quality start; if he's still throwing in the mid 80's and not getting any movement, he shouldn't be in the rotation.

[papabear58]

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

 

The whole point of this is that Wade Miller isn't going to help us win now, and Angel Guzman isn't going to develop pitching once a week in mopup duty.

 

You're arguing a point that's not being made.

 

And he isn't going to develop if he gets shelled back into the minors ethier. You are assuming that he will be successful. Can you take a step back and see it if he's not? He might learn more working with Rothschild on his pitching while working in the majors for a seaon then by going back and dominating AAA and not learning what it takes at the big league level. As far as pitching once a week, that comes back to a manager being able to find innings for him as I said earlier and also using him for spot starts as needed (we don't need any yet). I saw his struggles in spring, and I'm not ready to say that he's going to go into the rotation and be an instant success. I don't mind them bringing him along slowly. As far as Miller, you are speculating (though stretching a bit for one start) that he will be unsuccessful. All I'm saying as far as that goes is that one start is hard to judge. He might come out next time and really do well. Hey, lets kick Murton off the team because he's been successful in the past, but has looked like a total hack at times this year. Or how about Soriano, I mean just over .200, sheesh, there's a guy who needs to be shown the door. Even three starts isn't enough in my opinion. But you are already judge, jury, and ready to be exicutioner on Miller with only one start and are saying that three starts is some magic number for judging him.

 

Miller suffered a fairly serious shoulder injury and lost 10 mph on his fastball. I'm not stretching anything when I say he's not going to be successful if his pitches aren't going to move. He's never been a location/movement guy. He's been a power pitcher. He no longer has any power.

 

All of your other examples are irrelevant. Murton and Soriano aren't recovering from serious injuries and trying to change their entire approach.

 

As far as Miller coming out an performing well, I don't care if he throws a quality start; if he's still throwing in the mid 80's and not getting any movement, he shouldn't be in the rotation.

 

I simply do not agree with you that Guzman is the person who should have that spot. If I were to agree with you on Miller, which I am 50/50 on to be honest, then I'd say make a trade or sign someone else because I don't want to risk Guzman when he could be good for a long time to come.