Miller on Sunday (predictions)

[VVMattVV]

Want to see him developed and not thrown to the wolves. I suppose I might be the only person who thinks that way.

 

I believe it was MacPhail who said they would have called Angel up in 2003 if he stayed healthy. Why does he need more time to develop? He needs innings more than anything else. He logged time at AAA and in the majors last year, its not like we're throwing Jeff Samardzija out there. Eventually a player needs to be "thrown to the wolves."

[oldstyle81]

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

 

The whole point of this is that Wade Miller isn't going to help us win now, and Angel Guzman isn't going to develop pitching once a week in mopup duty.

 

You're arguing a point that's not being made.

 

And he isn't going to develop if he gets shelled back into the minors ethier. You are assuming that he will be successful. Can you take a step back and see it if he's not? He might learn more working with Rothschild on his pitching while working in the majors for a seaon then by going back and dominating AAA and not learning what it takes at the big league level. As far as pitching once a week, that comes back to a manager being able to find innings for him as I said earlier and also using him for spot starts as needed (we don't need any yet). I saw his struggles in spring, and I'm not ready to say that he's going to go into the rotation and be an instant success. I don't mind them bringing him along slowly. As far as Miller, you are speculating (though stretching a bit for one start) that he will be unsuccessful. All I'm saying as far as that goes is that one start is hard to judge. He might come out next time and really do well. Hey, lets kick Murton off the team because he's been successful in the past, but has looked like a total hack at times this year. Or how about Soriano, I mean just over .200, sheesh, there's a guy who needs to be shown the door. Even three starts isn't enough in my opinion. But you are already judge, jury, and ready to be exicutioner on Miller with only one start and are saying that three starts is some magic number for judging him.

 

Miller suffered a fairly serious shoulder injury and lost 10 mph on his fastball. I'm not stretching anything when I say he's not going to be successful if his pitches aren't going to move. He's never been a location/movement guy. He's been a power pitcher. He no longer has any power.

 

All of your other examples are irrelevant. Murton and Soriano aren't recovering from serious injuries and trying to change their entire approach.

 

As far as Miller coming out an performing well, I don't care if he throws a quality start; if he's still throwing in the mid 80's and not getting any movement, he shouldn't be in the rotation.

 

I simply do not agree with you that Guzman is the person who should have that spot. If I were to agree with you on Miller, which I am 50/50 on to be honest, then I'd say make a trade or sign someone else because I don't want to risk Guzman when he could be good for a long time to come.

 

so when are we susposed to use him? when he is 30?

[USSoccer]

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

 

The whole point of this is that Wade Miller isn't going to help us win now, and Angel Guzman isn't going to develop pitching once a week in mopup duty.

 

You're arguing a point that's not being made.

 

And he isn't going to develop if he gets shelled back into the minors ethier. You are assuming that he will be successful. Can you take a step back and see it if he's not? He might learn more working with Rothschild on his pitching while working in the majors for a seaon then by going back and dominating AAA and not learning what it takes at the big league level. As far as pitching once a week, that comes back to a manager being able to find innings for him as I said earlier and also using him for spot starts as needed (we don't need any yet). I saw his struggles in spring, and I'm not ready to say that he's going to go into the rotation and be an instant success. I don't mind them bringing him along slowly. As far as Miller, you are speculating (though stretching a bit for one start) that he will be unsuccessful. All I'm saying as far as that goes is that one start is hard to judge. He might come out next time and really do well. Hey, lets kick Murton off the team because he's been successful in the past, but has looked like a total hack at times this year. Or how about Soriano, I mean just over .200, sheesh, there's a guy who needs to be shown the door. Even three starts isn't enough in my opinion. But you are already judge, jury, and ready to be exicutioner on Miller with only one start and are saying that three starts is some magic number for judging him.

 

Miller suffered a fairly serious shoulder injury and lost 10 mph on his fastball. I'm not stretching anything when I say he's not going to be successful if his pitches aren't going to move. He's never been a location/movement guy. He's been a power pitcher. He no longer has any power.

 

All of your other examples are irrelevant. Murton and Soriano aren't recovering from serious injuries and trying to change their entire approach.

 

As far as Miller coming out an performing well, I don't care if he throws a quality start; if he's still throwing in the mid 80's and not getting any movement, he shouldn't be in the rotation.

 

I simply do not agree with you that Guzman is the person who should have that spot. If I were to agree with you on Miller, which I am 50/50 on to be honest, then I'd say make a trade or sign someone else because I don't want to risk Guzman when he could be good for a long time to come.

 

How is starting him a risk? If anything, his current role is more of a risk because he's not going to get regular work.

 

He's a starting pitcher. He should be starting. There's little risk in that.

[papabear58]

 

You are also assuming that he won't struggle, or at least not enough that the Cubs will have to replace him. I am open to that possibility. I'm sick and tired of seeing good young pitchers overused or thrown in (see last season for obvious reasons) to see if they stick. We brought in veteran pitchers not only to win now, but to allow us to develop talent. As far as "show you something", I'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am allowing him to adjust to major league hitters and work with the pitching coach for a while in order to become a better pitcher who won't struggle the way he did at times during spring training.

 

The whole point of this is that Wade Miller isn't going to help us win now, and Angel Guzman isn't going to develop pitching once a week in mopup duty.

 

You're arguing a point that's not being made.

 

And he isn't going to develop if he gets shelled back into the minors ethier. You are assuming that he will be successful. Can you take a step back and see it if he's not? He might learn more working with Rothschild on his pitching while working in the majors for a seaon then by going back and dominating AAA and not learning what it takes at the big league level. As far as pitching once a week, that comes back to a manager being able to find innings for him as I said earlier and also using him for spot starts as needed (we don't need any yet). I saw his struggles in spring, and I'm not ready to say that he's going to go into the rotation and be an instant success. I don't mind them bringing him along slowly. As far as Miller, you are speculating (though stretching a bit for one start) that he will be unsuccessful. All I'm saying as far as that goes is that one start is hard to judge. He might come out next time and really do well. Hey, lets kick Murton off the team because he's been successful in the past, but has looked like a total hack at times this year. Or how about Soriano, I mean just over .200, sheesh, there's a guy who needs to be shown the door. Even three starts isn't enough in my opinion. But you are already judge, jury, and ready to be exicutioner on Miller with only one start and are saying that three starts is some magic number for judging him.

 

Miller suffered a fairly serious shoulder injury and lost 10 mph on his fastball. I'm not stretching anything when I say he's not going to be successful if his pitches aren't going to move. He's never been a location/movement guy. He's been a power pitcher. He no longer has any power.

 

All of your other examples are irrelevant. Murton and Soriano aren't recovering from serious injuries and trying to change their entire approach.

 

As far as Miller coming out an performing well, I don't care if he throws a quality start; if he's still throwing in the mid 80's and not getting any movement, he shouldn't be in the rotation.

 

I simply do not agree with you that Guzman is the person who should have that spot. If I were to agree with you on Miller, which I am 50/50 on to be honest, then I'd say make a trade or sign someone else because I don't want to risk Guzman when he could be good for a long time to come.

 

so when are we susposed to use him? when he is 30?

 

You are being quite ridiculous. Give him a month or two out of the pen to show what he can do at this level and to be successful and if he's playing well and pushing for more then you spot start him and look at making a move at that point. Don't just throw him in there. Let him work his way in and it will have a better effect on his career IMHO.

[USSoccer]

You are being quite ridiculous. Give him a month or two out of the pen to show what he can do at this level and to be successful and if he's playing well and pushing for more then you spot start him and look at making a move at that point. Don't just throw him in there. Let him work his way in and it will have a better effect on his career IMHO.

 

The only thing ridiculous about this is that you seem to think working irregular innings once a week or so out of the pen is going to somehow help Angel Guzman's development.

 

He should be starting. If he's not starting here, he should be starting at AAA so that when it becomes apparent to everyone that Miller or Marquis shouldn't be starting, he's stretched out and ready to go.

[papabear58]

You are being quite ridiculous. Give him a month or two out of the pen to show what he can do at this level and to be successful and if he's playing well and pushing for more then you spot start him and look at making a move at that point. Don't just throw him in there. Let him work his way in and it will have a better effect on his career IMHO.

 

The only thing ridiculous about this is that you seem to think working irregular innings once a week or so out of the pen is going to somehow help Angel Guzman's development.

 

He should be starting. If he's not starting here, he should be starting at AAA when it becomes apparent to everyone that Miller or Marquis shouldn't be starting.

 

So you find no value in letting him adjust to major league pitching and seeing what he can do against them in the regular season before throwing him into the starting rotation? Or is it just that you want Miller out of here? If we are as much of a good ballclub that we can afford to send Miller packing on a whim, then we should also be a good enough ballclub to adjust for him being gone.

 

When Guzman struggles, you send him down to AAA, then you have to call someone else up because Miller is gone (he's already hinted strongly and Hendry has almost said that he won't go into the pen). Then when they struggle you send them down and bring up someone else.... cont. cont. cont. Let the kid pitch for a little bit and adjust. He's much more likely to stick. Guzman might be very good, but he can also use some more MLB experience without the pressure yet.

[USSoccer]

You are being quite ridiculous. Give him a month or two out of the pen to show what he can do at this level and to be successful and if he's playing well and pushing for more then you spot start him and look at making a move at that point. Don't just throw him in there. Let him work his way in and it will have a better effect on his career IMHO.

 

The only thing ridiculous about this is that you seem to think working irregular innings once a week or so out of the pen is going to somehow help Angel Guzman's development.

 

He should be starting. If he's not starting here, he should be starting at AAA when it becomes apparent to everyone that Miller or Marquis shouldn't be starting.

 

So you find no value in letting him adjust to major league pitching and seeing what he can do against them in the regular season before throwing him into the starting rotation? Or is it just that you want Miller out of here? If we are as much of a good ballclub that we can afford to send Miller packing on a whim, then we should also be a good enough ballclub to adjust for him being gone.

 

When Guzman struggles, you send him down to AAA, then you have to call someone else up because Miller is gone (he's already hinted strongly and Hendry has almost said that he won't go into the pen). Then when they struggle you send them down and bring up someone else.... cont. cont. cont. Let the kid pitch for a little bit and adjust. He's much more likely to stick. Guzman might be very good, but he can also use some more MLB experience without the pressure yet.

 

I find no value in wasting his ability in the bullpen for 2 inning a week, whilst Miller struggles to keep us in ballgames.

 

You also keep throwing out that scenario of Guzman struggling and the subsequent revolving door, yet it's just as likely he'll be an acceptable starting pitcher.

 

Finally, I don't care about what Wade Miller wants. Jim Hendry shouldn't, either. We have nothing invested in him worth caring about. If he's going to throw low velocity with no movement, he should be released. Again, that's the whole point of building depth.

[papabear58]

You also keep throwing out that scenario of Guzman struggling and the subsequent revolving door, yet it's just as likely he'll be an acceptable starting pitcher.

 

Finally, I don't care about what Wade Miller wants. Jim Hendry shouldn't, either. We have nothing invested in him worth caring about. If he's going to throw low velocity with no movement, he should be released. Again, that's the whole point of building depth.

 

That is where we differ. I'm not saying he won't, but I'm saying I want to see more from him before we risk his development. I don't think that it would be bad if he got more then "two innings a week" from the pen. I agree he should work more, but I don't think it should be in the rotation yet.

[USSoccer]

You also keep throwing out that scenario of Guzman struggling and the subsequent revolving door, yet it's just as likely he'll be an acceptable starting pitcher.

 

Finally, I don't care about what Wade Miller wants. Jim Hendry shouldn't, either. We have nothing invested in him worth caring about. If he's going to throw low velocity with no movement, he should be released. Again, that's the whole point of building depth.

 

That is where we differ. I'm not saying he won't, but I'm saying I want to see more from him before we risk his development. I don't think that it would be bad if he got more then "two innings a week" from the pen. I agree he should work more, but I don't think it should be in the rotation yet.

 

And you don't seem to realize that in our bullpen, he's not going to work more than a couple innings a week.

 

Meanwhile, we have a reclamation project throwing grapefruits down the heart of the plate. Guzman can't do worse, and can potentially do much better. He should be starting somewhere.

[papabear58]

You also keep throwing out that scenario of Guzman struggling and the subsequent revolving door, yet it's just as likely he'll be an acceptable starting pitcher.

 

Finally, I don't care about what Wade Miller wants. Jim Hendry shouldn't, either. We have nothing invested in him worth caring about. If he's going to throw low velocity with no movement, he should be released. Again, that's the whole point of building depth.

 

That is where we differ. I'm not saying he won't, but I'm saying I want to see more from him before we risk his development. I don't think that it would be bad if he got more then "two innings a week" from the pen. I agree he should work more, but I don't think it should be in the rotation yet.

 

And you don't seem to realize that in our bullpen, he's not going to work more than a couple innings a week.

 

Meanwhile, we have a reclamation project throwing grapefruits down the heart of the plate. Guzman can't do worse, and can potentially do much better. He should be starting somewhere.

 

I don't know what else to say, we seem to be going in circles and neither one is convincing the other that they are correct. I must simply, and respectfully, agree to disagree with you because I can see no value in continuing to argue a dead point. In the end I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens because as much as we argue here, it won't change what happens on the club :) ::Salude::