Prior is "just an employee"

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think his innings were limited because he reached his pitch count too soon. Some of that was the result of poor performance while other times poor defense.

[CUBZ99]

I think his statement that he's just an employee is his way of expressing that he has no control over the process. It's probably a combination of frustration, resignation to the fact, and reality.

 

I've made the same type of expression at jobs I've had where I had to follow instructions or policies that I may or may not have agreed with. I'd make a similar statement when people asked about them as a way of expressing that it was beyond my control. Sometimes it could be uttered with frustration; sometimes with resignation; sometimes as a means of passing the buck. That is all likely the case here.

 

I'm sure that Sullivan's spin on it makes it seem worse than it actually was. I don't think Prior being upset is such a bad thing. I would be more worried if he seemed resigned to the fact he belonged in AAA.

[Yeti]

this thread makes me embarassed to be part of this community

[Wheelimus]

You just know we're all bored and waiting for real baseball to start next week when we fight for 7 pages over "I'm an employee"...

[Chris]

http://www.jacksheldon.com/bill-box.jpg <---just a Bill

[Wheelimus]

Those bills are smiling. Obviously soft...

[98navigator]

Another example of Paul Sullivan inventing his own news! The Suntimes provides a different take on Prior's view:

 

He said the repeated references to being ''an employee'' were not meant to imply he wants out. For now, he'll stay in Arizona for a few days and prepare for the start of the Pacific Coast League season while the Cubs head out to open the season Monday in Cincinnati.

 

''I love every guy in this clubhouse,'' Prior said when asked whether his opinion of the organization has changed. ''They've got a good ballclub. They're going to have a good team. And I think I'll be part of it.''

 

This is what Paul Sullivan said:

 

During a 6–-minute briefing, Prior called himself an "employee" several times, which would seem to suggest he doesn't believe he has a long-term future with the Cubs.

 

It was Sullivan who asked Prior if he wanted to be traded (as seen on Comast Sports Net).

[jmajew]

Another example of Paul Sullivan inventing his own news! The Suntimes provides a different take on Prior's view:

 

He said the repeated references to being ''an employee'' were not meant to imply he wants out. For now, he'll stay in Arizona for a few days and prepare for the start of the Pacific Coast League season while the Cubs head out to open the season Monday in Cincinnati.

 

''I love every guy in this clubhouse,'' Prior said when asked whether his opinion of the organization has changed. ''They've got a good ballclub. They're going to have a good team. And I think I'll be part of it.''

 

This is what Paul Sullivan said:

 

During a 6–-minute briefing, Prior called himself an "employee" several times, which would seem to suggest he doesn't believe he has a long-term future with the Cubs.

 

It was Sullivan who asked Prior if he wanted to be traded (as seen on Comast Sports Net).

 

That is some good info...I do however apologize for starting this thread.

[Mephistopheles]

Another example of Paul Sullivan inventing his own news! The Suntimes provides a different take on Prior's view:

 

He said the repeated references to being ''an employee'' were not meant to imply he wants out. For now, he'll stay in Arizona for a few days and prepare for the start of the Pacific Coast League season while the Cubs head out to open the season Monday in Cincinnati.

 

''I love every guy in this clubhouse,'' Prior said when asked whether his opinion of the organization has changed. ''They've got a good ballclub. They're going to have a good team. And I think I'll be part of it.''

 

This is what Paul Sullivan said:

 

During a 6–-minute briefing, Prior called himself an "employee" several times, which would seem to suggest he doesn't believe he has a long-term future with the Cubs.

 

It was Sullivan who asked Prior if he wanted to be traded (as seen on Comast Sports Net).

 

That is some good info...I do however apologize for starting this thread.

dont be, someone else would have

[Warpticon]

Those bills are smiling. Obviously soft...

 

Allspark link? I thought you were that Wheelimus, but I was never sure...

[Wheelimus]

One in the same. Small world!

[Bull]

While I'm no sullivan apologist, I don't see how his take is so out of context. If prior is using the phrase "I'm just an emloyee" he's obviously not happy with the organization right now.

 

From the very beginning Prior has been upset with their handling of him (as has his father). They held him in the minor leagues until May 22 in 2002 to prevent him from accruing service time (although I think he became a "super two" anyway). And now they send him down treating him as a kid when he has performed at the highest level, choosing an 80% Miller over an 80% Prior.

 

It is very possible that if he stays in AAA long enough it could push his free agency to after 2009 instead of 2008. I think its clear he wants out. Hopefully he performs this year so he can be traded for value before he walks. Its not softness. He doesn't trust the Cubs management and Hendry in particular. He didn't like Dusty (for good reason - the percieved abuse was very real and may have ruined his career), and he obviously didn't care for Piniella's one way conversation. He's very smart and thinks he's even smarter. Only he, his father, and Tom House know what's best for him. (One reason I don't mind the "towel drill" jokes)

 

I'll eat my hat and a fare share of crow if mark prior EVER signs with the Cubs when he is not under their control.

 

In this article Sullivan is right on the money.

[98navigator]

I disagree. When someone asks you "Are you going to fight this, are you going to request a trade?" and the response is, "no, I'm not going to get into that I'm just an employee," it's clear that the true meaning is taken out of context.

 

Also, when you see the actual interview, it is clear that Prior isn't speaking in a bitter manner. Of course he's upset, it's human nature, but we should take what he says with a grain of salt considering the situation is fresh...

[seanimal]

While I'm no sullivan apologist,

 

But,

 

I don't see how his take is so out of context. If prior is using the phrase "I'm just an emloyee" he's obviously not happy with the organization right now.

 

Well, it is being taken out of context. When someone asks you if you're going to ask for a trade, and you respond "I'm not going to do that, I'm just an employee, I'm under their control, etc.", and then a supposedly objective and professional journalist takes this to mean you are not happy with the organization as a whole, then yes, it is being placed out of context

 

From the very beginning Prior has been upset with their handling of him (as has his father). They held him in the minor leagues until May 22 in 2002 to prevent him from accruing service time (although I think he became a "super two" anyway).

 

This is documented where?

 

And now they send him down treating him as a kid when he has performed at the highest level, choosing an 80% Miller over an 80% Prior.

 

Performed at the highest level? If you're referring to a single season a full 3 1/2 years ago, then I suppose that's true.

 

It is very possible that if he stays in AAA long enough it could push his free agency to after 2009 instead of 2008.

 

This is ludicrous. You seriously think that an organization, and especially a general manager who's job is on the line, are going to hold back a player if he can contribute more than a player currently on the roster, simply so they can hold on to him longer? Wow.

 

I think its clear he wants out. Hopefully he performs this year so he can be traded for value before he walks. Its not softness. He doesn't trust the Cubs management and Hendry in particular. He didn't like Dusty (for good reason - the percieved abuse was very real and may have ruined his career), and he obviously didn't care for Piniella's one way conversation. He's very smart and thinks he's even smarter. Only he, his father, and Tom House know what's best for him. (One reason I don't mind the "towel drill" jokes)

 

I'll eat my hat and a fare share of crow if mark prior EVER signs with the Cubs when he is not under their control.

 

While he may not want to sign, It's a moot point, since the Cubs probably won't have enough money to pay what he's asking IF he's regained his form, and would be stupid to do so with the steady stream of pitching talent they possess.

 

In this article Sullivan is right on the money.

 

Or not.

 

Edit: I'd just like to add that Sullivan is never quite on the money with the Cubs. He is constantly belittling the fans who write in for his weekly "Ask Paul Sullivan" column. He complained IN A COLUMN about being moved by the Trib from the Sox beat to the Cubs beat. He is an unprofessional hack. His job is to get the facts and present them, not make unfounded accusations and put words into the interviewee's mouth.

[Bull]

From the very beginning Prior has been upset with their handling of him (as has his father). They held him in the minor leagues until May 22 in 2002 to prevent him from accruing service time (although I think he became a "super two" anyway).

 

This is documented where?

 

THis doesn't have to be documented. They did hold him back in 2002. It did prevent him from accruing service time. It was common knowledge to informed fans at the time. It also didn't work as he became a "super two" anyway. I don't know what documentation you would be looking for.

 

And now they send him down treating him as a kid when he has performed at the highest level, choosing an 80% Miller over an 80% Prior.

 

Performed at the highest level? If you're referring to a single season a full 3 1/2 years ago, then I suppose that's true.

 

This is ludicrous. Where do you get this drivel? look at his stats ERA+ of 122, 175, 113, and 116 with 116, 211, 118, and 166 IP in four consecutive years isn't the highest level?

 

It is very possible that if he stays in AAA long enough it could push his free agency to after 2009 instead of 2008.

 

This is ludicrous. You seriously think that an organization, and especially a general manager who's job is on the line, are going to hold back a player if he can contribute more than a player currently on the roster, simply so they can hold on to him longer? Wow.

 

that's not the primary reason, but, yes I believe it was taken into consideration in choosing an 80% Miller over an 80% Prior. They want the best return on the money they've put into him. They didi it in 2002; they're doing it again. I don't fault them, but it is true.

[seanimal]

THis doesn't have to be documented. They did hold him back in 2002. It did prevent him from accruing service time. It was common knowledge to informed fans at the time. It also didn't work as he became a "super two" anyway. I don't know what documentation you would be looking for.

 

Documented that they did so in order to prevent him from accruing service time. If it was so readily apparent that they were doing so, why wouldn't they hold him down long enough to prevent him from becoming a "super two"?

 

This is ludicrous. Where do you get this drivel? look at his stats ERA+ of 122, 175, 113, and 116 with 116, 211, 118, and 166 IP in four consecutive years isn't the highest level?

 

In what universe is pitching 116, 118, or 166 innings as a starter pitching at the highest level? Not this one.

 

that's not the primary reason, but, yes I believe it was taken into consideration in choosing an 80% Miller over an 80% Prior. They want the best return on the money they've put into him. They didi it in 2002; they're doing it again. I don't fault them, but it is true.

 

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Bull]

why wouldn't they hold him down long enough to prevent him from becoming a "super two"?

 

Someone will have to help me with the details here, but basically, but a super two wouldn't be calculated until three seasons later. It would be the top x percentage of guys with two+ years service time who are then treated as if they have three years service time. They tried to delay him a year by holding him back till may. Because of how many innings he threw and/or how many days he was on a major league roster (credit his superlative performance and the pennant race and Dusty's abuse) he was treated like he had three full years anyway.

 

And yes 166 innings in 27 starts with 188 Ks and a 116 ERA+ in 2005 is certainly the highest level.

[NCCubFan]

I don't think delaying free agency was the motivation for starting him in the minors in 2002. It was his first year in pro ball, he hadn't pitched since the end of the college season in 2001 (he didn't sign in time to pitch in the minors in 2001), and I think the Cubs just wanted him to have a few starts in the minors before jumping to the major league level. Very few players start in the majors without spending some time in the minors.

[seanimal]

And yes 166 innings in 27 starts with 188 Ks and a 116 ERA+ in 2005 is certainly the highest level.

 

Well, lets pretend, like you are, that 200 innings isn't the benchmark for "highest level", that's still only two years out of four, which doesn't exactly support your argument. But, in real life, 200 innings is the benchmark for a "highest level" pitcher, and he didn't get there.

 

I'm sorry, I'd love to think that Prior is all that you want him to be, but in the end, all we have is the numbers. And the numbers say that all elite pitchers pitch at least 200 innings per season. You can walk out any stats you want, but in the end, he didn't meet that benchmark. Sorry.

 

I want Mark Prior to kick a**. I want him to dominate the league. I want him to be better than Zambrano. Would I bet my house on it? I'll let you answer that question first. Mark Prior is nothing but the stats he has produced. Period.

[Bull]

And yes 166 innings in 27 starts with 188 Ks and a 116 ERA+ in 2005 is certainly the highest level.

 

Well, lets pretend, like you are, that 200 innings isn't the benchmark for "highest level", that's still only two years out of four, which doesn't exactly support your argument. But, in real life, 200 innings is the benchmark for a "highest level" pitcher, and he didn't get there.

 

I'm sorry, I'd love to think that Prior is all that you want him to be, but in the end, all we have is the numbers. And the numbers say that all elite pitchers pitch at least 200 innings per season. You can walk out any stats you want, but in the end, he didn't meet that benchmark. Sorry.

 

I want Mark Prior to kick a**. I want him to dominate the league. I want him to be better than Zambrano. Would I bet my house on it? I'll let you answer that question first. Mark Prior is nothing but the stats he has produced. Period.

 

this side argument isn't even my point (though I stand by what I've said). My point is that Prior believes the Cubs have mishandled, mistreated or otherwise set his career back. He's gone at the earliest possible juncture, the Cubs know it, and would love to delay that possibility.

 

Why you can't acknowledge that Prior has been great in the past, is beyond me. If he hasn't put up the innings you'd like to see, that doesn't change the fact that when he has pitched, he's been dominant.

 

I've stated that Prior isn't 100%. But all things being equal I'd bet he'd out produce Miller.

 

He's being given the raw end of the deal by his "employers" again. You only put up with crap as an employee until you can find a better gig.

 

That's all I'm saying.

[CubColtPacer]

And yes 166 innings in 27 starts with 188 Ks and a 116 ERA+ in 2005 is certainly the highest level.

 

Well, lets pretend, like you are, that 200 innings isn't the benchmark for "highest level", that's still only two years out of four, which doesn't exactly support your argument. But, in real life, 200 innings is the benchmark for a "highest level" pitcher, and he didn't get there.

 

I'm sorry, I'd love to think that Prior is all that you want him to be, but in the end, all we have is the numbers. And the numbers say that all elite pitchers pitch at least 200 innings per season. You can walk out any stats you want, but in the end, he didn't meet that benchmark. Sorry.

 

I want Mark Prior to kick a**. I want him to dominate the league. I want him to be better than Zambrano. Would I bet my house on it? I'll let you answer that question first. Mark Prior is nothing but the stats he has produced. Period.

 

this side argument isn't even my point (though I stand by what I've said). My point is that Prior believes the Cubs have mishandled, mistreated or otherwise set his career back. He's gone at the earliest possible juncture, the Cubs know it, and would love to delay that possibility.

 

Why you can't acknowledge that Prior has been great in the past, is beyond me. If he hasn't put up the innings you'd like to see, that doesn't change the fact that when he has pitched, he's been dominant.

 

I've stated that Prior isn't 100%. But all things being equal I'd bet he'd out produce Miller.

 

He's being given the raw end of the deal by his "employers" again. You only put up with crap as an employee until you can find a better gig.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

The raw end of the deal? Prior hasn't reached anywhere near the number of pitches he needs to be able to throw in the majors yet. I'm pretty sure the highest number of pitches he threw all spring was 60-so even if he was pretty effective with his pitches, that number of pitches is just not enough for the majors yet-let him go down to the minors and build up so that he can throw 80-100 pitches (hopefully effectively). Prior isn't being treated badly at all right now-if he can't reach the number of pitches needed and needs 5 days of rest between every start, then he's not ready to start yet in the majors. He's making progress but it will take a little more time, and right now Miller won't wear out the bullpen as much as Prior would.

[Soul]

Why you can't acknowledge that Prior has been great in the past, is beyond me. If he hasn't put up the innings you'd like to see, that doesn't change the fact that when he has pitched, he's been dominant.

 

I've stated that Prior isn't 100%. But all things being equal I'd bet he'd out produce Miller.

 

He's being given the raw end of the deal by his "employers" again. You only put up with crap as an employee until you can find a better gig.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

Oh, I think there's a great deal of question whether Prior would outproduce Miller.

 

As for being crapped on by his employer, I suppose you could apply that argument to any player who gets sent down. So why should Prior be given special treatment? He's not getting it done right now, so he's down for the moment. Why is this bad? If Miller sucks and Prior does well at Iowa, the Miller is out and Prior is back in. Sounds like a solid, merit-based approach to me.

 

Everyone always criticizes the Cubs for being too soft with veteran players. But once they get tougher and demand a level of performance, suddenly everyone's all over them for that, too. I guess they can't win either way.

[CubinNY]

Everyone always criticizes the Cubs for being too soft with veteran players. But once they get tougher and demand a level of performance, suddenly everyone's all over them for that, too. I guess they can't win either way.

I don't think anyone is criticizing the Cubs for sending down Prior. I think people are trying to introduce a little sanity into the discussion.

 

Prior is a wuss and Prior lost his confidence are pretty weak arguments. Prior lost mph on his fast ball and Prior hasn't located his pitches are much better arguments IMO.

 

I'm glad the Cubs didn't give Prior a spot if he's not ready.

[98navigator]

Phil Rogers / Tribune

 

 

Prior wasn't the only millionaire forced to make an adjustment he would rather avoid. Ken Griffey Jr. will play right field and bat fourth Monday against the Cubs after 18 seasons of playing center field and almost that many batting third.

 

His opinion of the change?

 

"I'm just employee No. 3," said Griffey, declining to reveal more than his name and uniform number to Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News.

 

I think the media is making too big of a deal out ot the "employee" remarks...

[CubColtPacer]

Everyone always criticizes the Cubs for being too soft with veteran players. But once they get tougher and demand a level of performance, suddenly everyone's all over them for that, too. I guess they can't win either way.

I don't think anyone is criticizing the Cubs for sending down Prior. I think people are trying to introduce a little sanity into the discussion.

 

Prior is a wuss and Prior lost his confidence are pretty weak arguments. Prior lost mph on his fast ball and Prior hasn't located his pitches are much better arguments IMO.

 

I'm glad the Cubs didn't give Prior a spot if he's not ready.

 

I think here's the quote that Soul is referring to

 

I've stated that Prior isn't 100%. But all things being equal I'd bet he'd out produce Miller.

 

He's being given the raw end of the deal by his "employers" again.

 

That definitely is criticism for sending down Prior.

 

Also-yes, Prior lost mph on his fast ball and an inability to locate his pitches are the direct reasons why he hasn't pitched well. The thing is-what are the causes of those two things? Is it just because of the loss of arm strength due to the injuries? Is it the time off? Is it due to a lack of confidence that is causing him not to air his arm all the way out for fear of getting hurt again?

I think it's a combination of all 3, and I understand why that is-I have a knee injury, and the hardest thing in coming back from it is trusting that my knee was healthy and allowing myself to go at full speed without risk of injury. With all the setbacks that Prior has had over the last year, it is likely that a similar thing is happening to him, and that is at least part of the cause for his lack of speed and command is this mental fear (the other part being that he is still rehabbing from his injuries physically as well and building arm strength).