I'm convinced - Theriot for starting 2B... erm SS

[A New Era]

I still don't feel completely sold on Soriano in the leadoff spot.

 

I just think Soriano represents too much power and not a really good OB% to stick at the top. I guess he will be a dynamic type leadoff man, and know he will be in the pitchers head as a threat to steal, but I just like the high OB% guys (if you have them) at the top. Having said that, it is pretty much automatic that he will score at least 100 runs, regardless of his OB% - but he would not be the consistant scoring threat as a guy like Theriot (I really think he and Murton would easily be able to have at least .350 OB%).

 

I think the Cubs have a real good chance to have a good defensive/offensive team with this lineup:

 

2B Theriot

LF Murton

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

RF Soriano

CA Barrett

CF Pie

SS Izturis

 

I too, would prefer Soriano in the 5 spot. However I do truely beleive there is something about his comfort in the #1 spot, because he has consistantly put up better #'s there.

[A New Era]

I am not concerned who is the starting 2nd basemen in Cincinati on April 2. I will become concerned if there is a player on the bench outplaying a regular and our manager says that the regular is a veteran and brings more to the game than just numbers. If that happens I will be concerned.

 

As long as Theriot performs he will get the opportunity to play.

 

I agree. We have a manager who will play the best performing player. Not the one with the better past, etc.

 

We have a manager who has been saying lately that he will play the best performing player, in stark contrast to his actions on the last team he managed.

 

Let's save the absolute comments until we've actually seen him work during the season. I like what he's said just as much as anybody here, but he's yet to follow through on any of that (through no fault of his own, granted). Let's remember to not get too worked up over a couple of sound-bytes, alright?

 

YES SIR!!!

[Rob]

I am not concerned who is the starting 2nd basemen in Cincinati on April 2. I will become concerned if there is a player on the bench outplaying a regular and our manager says that the regular is a veteran and brings more to the game than just numbers. If that happens I will be concerned.

 

As long as Theriot performs he will get the opportunity to play.

 

I agree. We have a manager who will play the best performing player. Not the one with the better past, etc.

 

We have a manager who has been saying lately that he will play the best performing player, in stark contrast to his actions on the last team he managed.

 

Let's save the absolute comments until we've actually seen him work during the season. I like what he's said just as much as anybody here, but he's yet to follow through on any of that (through no fault of his own, granted). Let's remember to not get too worked up over a couple of sound-bytes, alright?

 

YES SIR!!!

 

Sarcasm duly noted.

 

I just find the disconnect between his old ways and his new soundbytes troubling... especially so when he is leaning towards Miller as the last man in the rotation and the historically pathetic Tomas Perez seems to be grabbing that 25th man spot.

 

If wearing rose-coloured glasses makes your time with the Cubs more palatable, go for it. Forgive me for trying to keep everybody's expectations where they should be, though. I always enjoy my season more when unexpected good things happen, rather than expecting too much and not coming close.

[NewUserName]

I am not concerned who is the starting 2nd basemen in Cincinati on April 2. I will become concerned if there is a player on the bench outplaying a regular and our manager says that the regular is a veteran and brings more to the game than just numbers. If that happens I will be concerned.

 

As long as Theriot performs he will get the opportunity to play.

 

I agree. We have a manager who will play the best performing player. Not the one with the better past, etc.

 

We have a manager who has been saying lately that he will play the best performing player, in stark contrast to his actions on the last team he managed.

 

Let's save the absolute comments until we've actually seen him work during the season. I like what he's said just as much as anybody here, but he's yet to follow through on any of that (through no fault of his own, granted). Let's remember to not get too worked up over a couple of sound-bytes, alright?

 

YES SIR!!!

 

Sarcasm duly noted.

 

I just find the disconnect between his old ways and his new soundbytes troubling... especially so when he is leaning towards Miller as the last man in the rotation and the historically pathetic Tomas Perez seems to be grabbing that 25th man spot.

 

If wearing rose-coloured glasses makes your time with the Cubs more palatable, go for it. Forgive me for trying to keep everybody's expectations where they should be, though. I always enjoy my season more when unexpected good things happen, rather than expecting too much and not coming close.

 

 

I agree with you. I am very concerned about why Tomas Perez. I do understand the Miller one better but I would just let Guzman have the job myself.

 

I do however believe that as long as Theriot is playing well he will get plenty of playing time. It may be at several different positions but he should get a lot of ABs. I dont think this would be true with our past manager.

[soapy]

Ideally, I'd like to see Theriot keep it up and work his way in as the starting 2B with DeRosa becoming the platoon partner for Jones (and over-all utility man).

 

Regardless, I think he'll get plenty of playing time between 2B and/or a possible injury to Itzuris.

[rocket]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

[MustangMike]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

 

Can we not bring up Neifi Perez ever again?

[goonys evil twin]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

 

I could live with that OPS if he's putting up his .355 career OBP, or better yet, the .365-.367 he had in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

[RynoRules]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

 

I could live with that OPS if he's putting up his .355 career OBP, or better yet, the .365-.367 he had in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

 

Seconded. Who cares if all he does is walk and get singles. We have other guys to get extra base hits.

[Backtobanks]

Then it's agreed. Theriot at 2B with Derosa as super utility man and platoon RF. I stated in another discussion that some AL baseball people thought RF was Derosa's best position.

[Soul]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

 

I could live with that OPS if he's putting up his .355 career OBP, or better yet, the .365-.367 he had in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

 

Seconded. Who cares if all he does is walk and get singles. We have other guys to get extra base hits.

 

Eckstein's was only .694 last year. Yeah, if Theriot can get on base in the upper .300's, I don't see why his lack of power should be a concern.

 

My point is, we already know Derosa's not going to break .340 OBP. Why not give the kid with more upside a chance?

[CubColtPacer]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

 

I could live with that OPS if he's putting up his .355 career OBP, or better yet, the .365-.367 he had in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

 

Seconded. Who cares if all he does is walk and get singles. We have other guys to get extra base hits.

 

Eckstein's was only .694 last year. Yeah, if Theriot can get on base in the upper .300's, I don't see why his lack of power should be a concern.

 

My point is, we already know Derosa's not going to break .340 OBP. Why not give the kid with more upside a chance?

 

We know that he is not going to break .340? Considering last year was .357, I'm not sure how we know he's not going to break that-even if he has a lesser year this year he still has a shot of breaking that number, and even though he's not hitting well at all he's having a good OBP spring.

[Amazing_Grace]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

 

I could live with that OPS if he's putting up his .355 career OBP, or better yet, the .365-.367 he had in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

 

Seconded. The team has plenty of SLG, but needs more OBP. I still think they ought to at least try Theriot at SS. If he can play SS, it's a huge boost as he can be a David Eckstein type player, no power but gets on base for the power hitters behind him.

[Soul]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

 

I could live with that OPS if he's putting up his .355 career OBP, or better yet, the .365-.367 he had in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

 

Seconded. Who cares if all he does is walk and get singles. We have other guys to get extra base hits.

 

Eckstein's was only .694 last year. Yeah, if Theriot can get on base in the upper .300's, I don't see why his lack of power should be a concern.

 

My point is, we already know Derosa's not going to break .340 OBP. Why not give the kid with more upside a chance?

 

We know that he is not going to break .340? Considering last year was .357, I'm not sure how we know he's not going to break that-even if he has a lesser year this year he still has a shot of breaking that number, and even though he's not hitting well at all he's having a good OBP spring.

 

He did that @ 31 years old, playing in one of the best hitting environments in baseball. Last time he was in the NL, he posted .293

[CubColtPacer]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

 

I could live with that OPS if he's putting up his .355 career OBP, or better yet, the .365-.367 he had in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

 

Seconded. Who cares if all he does is walk and get singles. We have other guys to get extra base hits.

 

Eckstein's was only .694 last year. Yeah, if Theriot can get on base in the upper .300's, I don't see why his lack of power should be a concern.

 

My point is, we already know Derosa's not going to break .340 OBP. Why not give the kid with more upside a chance?

 

We know that he is not going to break .340? Considering last year was .357, I'm not sure how we know he's not going to break that-even if he has a lesser year this year he still has a shot of breaking that number, and even though he's not hitting well at all he's having a good OBP spring.

 

He did that @ 31 years old, playing in one of the best hitting environments in baseball. Last time he was in the NL, he posted .293

 

Agreed, but he also has completely changed his hitting stance at the plate since then as well. I would agree that it is unknown if he will put up a .340+ OBP, but it certainly would be a reasonable outcome if he did so.

[Pushfrog98]

I think theriot will just clog the bases...

[rocket]

well i agree that if theriot puts up an obp of .350 at the league minimum then i'm fine with him. i'm just not convinced he'll do it. but i wouldn't care if he gets the start over derosa.

[mg420]

let's not get too excited. sure, derosa hasn't proven himself over a full season, but neither has theriot. yeah, he's been productive over 130 at bats, but so was neifi perez late in 2004 and 2005.

 

if theriot was our starting 2nd baseman for a whole season, i'd bet he'd give us numbers similiar to his career minor league numbers (.692 OPS) rather than the major league production he's given.

 

I could live with that OPS if he's putting up his .355 career OBP, or better yet, the .365-.367 he had in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

 

Seconded. Who cares if all he does is walk and get singles. We have other guys to get extra base hits.

 

Eckstein's was only .694 last year. Yeah, if Theriot can get on base in the upper .300's, I don't see why his lack of power should be a concern.

 

My point is, we already know Derosa's not going to break .340 OBP. Why not give the kid with more upside a chance?

 

We know that he is not going to break .340? Considering last year was .357, I'm not sure how we know he's not going to break that-even if he has a lesser year this year he still has a shot of breaking that number, and even though he's not hitting well at all he's having a good OBP spring.

 

He did that @ 31 years old, playing in one of the best hitting environments in baseball. Last time he was in the NL, he posted .293

 

even though he's not hitting much and it's only spring training but he does have 8 bb in 29 ab's so far along with a .405 obp. if he stays healthy i dont see why he couldnt put up .350 & .450 for a .800 ops in 2007.

[MustangMike]

I think theriot will just clog the bases...

 

 

Theriot has done everything they have asked of him with a good amount of success since getting a chance with the cubs. If this continues, he'll play his way into the lineup on a consistant basis. I really believe a major push will come from the fans and media if Derosa doesn't succeed early which might force the issue. I'm ok with trying Derosa, but i'd rather Theriot play. I'm getting the Jersey:

 

The Riot

2

 

 

:lol:

[goonys evil twin]

even though he's not hitting much and it's only spring training but he does have 8 bb in 29 ab's so far along with a .405 obp. if he stays healthy i dont see why he couldnt put up .350 & .450 for a .800 ops in 2007.

 

There's a difference between what a guy can do, and what a guy is likely to do. Nobody is saying he can't go .350/.450, the problem is likelihood. I don't like operating on a "best case scenario" basis. The Cubs, all too often, looks at a guy's best numbers and hope he can repeat them. DeRosa has done .350/.450 once in his life. We would be extremely lucky if he does it over the long haul in 2007 (let alone the duration of his contract).

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This thread moved me to go sponsor Theriot's baseball-reference page.

[Soul]

He did that @ 31 years old, playing in one of the best hitting environments in baseball. Last time he was in the NL, he posted .293

 

even though he's not hitting much and it's only spring training but he does have 8 bb in 29 ab's so far along with a .405 obp. if he stays healthy i dont see why he couldnt put up .350 & .450 for a .800 ops in 2007.

 

Obviously it's all guessing right now, and I'm rooting for Derosa, but he just looks like he's ready to tank. IMO.

[TruffleShuffle]

He did that @ 31 years old, playing in one of the best hitting environments in baseball. Last time he was in the NL, he posted .293

 

even though he's not hitting much and it's only spring training but he does have 8 bb in 29 ab's so far along with a .405 obp. if he stays healthy i dont see why he couldnt put up .350 & .450 for a .800 ops in 2007.

 

Obviously it's all guessing right now, and I'm rooting for Derosa, but he just looks like he's ready to tank. IMO.

 

Because he's had 29 "poor" at bats this spring (even though his OBP is .405)? Or was this a prognostication by your Jump to Conclusions Mat?

[BigbadB]

At the plate, Theriot has done nothing but impress. I'm a bit concerned about his "D", but I would imagine he's at least adequate wherever they put him defensively.

 

I like DeRosa as well. I think his bat will come around soon enough. It's hard to say who will be more productive, but the playing time should be there for both of them. I hope Izturis continues hitting like he has. He's shown so far this spring that he can be an asset hitting 8th. With Soriano hitting lead off, it will help this club to have decent bats at the bottom of the order who can set up Soriano.

 

But, I'm still skeptical of Izturis continuing to get on base at the rate he is. I suppose I'd be happy if he could put up a .330+ OBP and play the tremendous "D" everyone raves about. He has been drawing walks, which is a good sign.

[Soul]

He did that @ 31 years old, playing in one of the best hitting environments in baseball. Last time he was in the NL, he posted .293

 

even though he's not hitting much and it's only spring training but he does have 8 bb in 29 ab's so far along with a .405 obp. if he stays healthy i dont see why he couldnt put up .350 & .450 for a .800 ops in 2007.

 

Obviously it's all guessing right now, and I'm rooting for Derosa, but he just looks like he's ready to tank. IMO.

 

Because he's had 29 "poor" at bats this spring (even though his OBP is .405)? Or was this a prognostication by your Jump to Conclusions Mat?

 

It's pretty much baseless guesswork. I just think he's been marginal his entire career, until he had one decent season @ 31 under ideal conditions, then he got a big contract. Doesn't seem like there are many examples of players who suddenly discover themselves in a hitter's paradise @ 31, then move to a less hitter-friendly environment and continue to be great.