Super Bowl XLI: Bears vs. Colts, Sun 2/4, 5:30 pm CT

[CubColtPacer]

The Bears RBs are better then the Colts.

 

Push.

 

Yeah, I tend to agree. If someone has a edge here, it's probably pretty slight.

 

I would have to agree-the RB's are dead even.

 

Maybe I'm being a homer, but I think the Bears RBs are better...but thats not taking a lot away from the Colts RBs who I think are good. I think Jones and Addai are about a push, but I think Benson is better then Rhodes

 

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but there's no way IMHO to definitively judge the RB duos of the game, especially since Addai was used progressively through the season. Both duos had a great regular season and have been solid in the postseason. As big of a fan of Addai as I am right now, I'd say the RB matchup is as even of any matchup in the SB.

 

I would agree with that. If you look at their averages during the regular season, both the Bears RB's were at 4.1. The Colts RB's? 4.8 for Addai, 3.4 for Rhodes, which just happens to average out at 4.1 YPC. That position is as even as it can possibly get, and is the only one besides possibly kickers with the way Gould is kicking that can really be called that way

[Chocolate Milk]

I'd argue that that Bears running game is a little ahead of the Colts but the RB's themselves are about even. The Bears running game has really racheted up at the end of the season here.

[YearofDaCubs]

The Bears RBs are better then the Colts.

 

Push.

 

Yeah, I tend to agree. If someone has a edge here, it's probably pretty slight.

 

I would have to agree-the RB's are dead even.

 

Maybe I'm being a homer, but I think the Bears RBs are better...but thats not taking a lot away from the Colts RBs who I think are good. I think Jones and Addai are about a push, but I think Benson is better then Rhodes

 

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but there's no way IMHO to definitively judge the RB duos of the game, especially since Addai was used progressively through the season. Both duos had a great regular season and have been solid in the postseason. As big of a fan of Addai as I am right now, I'd say the RB matchup is as even of any matchup in the SB.

Addai was a really good pickup for you guys. YOu guys didn't lose much getting rid of Edge.

[Soul]

The Bears RBs are better then the Colts.

 

Push.

 

Yeah, I tend to agree. If someone has a edge here, it's probably pretty slight.

 

I would have to agree-the RB's are dead even.

 

Maybe I'm being a homer, but I think the Bears RBs are better...but thats not taking a lot away from the Colts RBs who I think are good. I think Jones and Addai are about a push, but I think Benson is better then Rhodes

 

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but there's no way IMHO to definitively judge the RB duos of the game, especially since Addai was used progressively through the season. Both duos had a great regular season and have been solid in the postseason. As big of a fan of Addai as I am right now, I'd say the RB matchup is as even of any matchup in the SB.

Addai was a really good pickup for you guys. YOu guys didn't lose much getting rid of Edge.

 

They gained by it. Edge was hitting the wall, and Indy wisely saw it.

[CuseCubFan69]

They gained by it. Edge was hitting the wall, and Indy wisely saw it.

 

Plus the cap room to get other players. I wonder who the Edge is rooting for?

[Soul]

A big reason why the Bears are going to the Super Bowl this year instead of washing out in the first game is because Orton has faded from view.

 

And that's the bare bones truth baby.

 

Say what you want about Rex. Orton (or Griese for that matter) don't make those deep throws to Berrian or bring us down the field on their arm alone when the team needs a score.

 

There's a pretty good chance Kyle's going to be cut at the roster trim-downs next Summer, so I hope you enjoyed your last look at him :wink:

 

I doubt that seriously. Orton's struggles were in his true rookie year. He had 10 wins, and has had a year to sit, watch, talk to both Rex and Brian, and learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.

 

My guess is that we have the same 3 quarterbacks next year, or if we draft a middle round/late round QB, I could see Griese being traded and Kyle being #2.

 

Who cares? He's not going to play here, ever. He knows that, which is why he was complaining back in training camp. #3 QBs aren't for someone who just sits and stagnates. It's a fluid depth-chart position that almost always has some young low draft pick who nobody knows about yet. We know about Orton. I doubt Kyle even wants to stick around under these conditions.

 

As for trading Griese----I suppose that's one of the only ways Kyle sticks around, but it leaves us in a much worse QB position than this year. I don't see why Angelo would suddenly want to leave us razor thin when he worked so hard to remedy that situation.

[CubColtPacer]

The Bears RBs are better then the Colts.

 

Push.

 

Yeah, I tend to agree. If someone has a edge here, it's probably pretty slight.

 

I would have to agree-the RB's are dead even.

 

Maybe I'm being a homer, but I think the Bears RBs are better...but thats not taking a lot away from the Colts RBs who I think are good. I think Jones and Addai are about a push, but I think Benson is better then Rhodes

 

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but there's no way IMHO to definitively judge the RB duos of the game, especially since Addai was used progressively through the season. Both duos had a great regular season and have been solid in the postseason. As big of a fan of Addai as I am right now, I'd say the RB matchup is as even of any matchup in the SB.

Addai was a really good pickup for you guys. YOu guys didn't lose much getting rid of Edge.

 

They gained by it. Edge was hitting the wall, and Indy wisely saw it.

 

True-there was a lot of criticism for the Colts signing Reggie Wayne to the big deal and not signing Edgerrin. It reminded me of the Manning vs. Leaf debate, and then the why Edgerrin over Ricky Williams crowd. Polian has proved himself to be smarter than the fans so many times.

 

What I find amazing is the Colts first picks in the draft. I'm not sure a team has ever been this great in the first round (and first pick one time when the Colts traded down) in the history of the game. Here are the Colts first picks since 1996.

 

1996-Marvin Harrison, WR (4th receiver taken)

1997-Tarik Glenn, OT

1998-Peyton Manning, QB

1999-Edgerrin James, RB

2000-Rob Morris, LB

2001-Reggie Wayne, WR

2002-Dwight Freeney, DE

2003-Dallas Clark, TE

2004-Bob Sanders, S (taken in the second round with the Colts first pick after they traded down)

2005-Marlin Jackson, CB

2006-Joseph Addai, RB

 

Look at that list-there are only 3 people taken in the top half of the first round (Manning, James, Freeney). Freeney, Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and Sanders were widely criticized as being reaches. All of them with the exception of Edgerrin were key factors in beating the Patriots last week. They haven't had a single true bust in over a decade, and have built their unbelievable offense and defensive playmakers out of basically their first round picks. That is simply amazing to me.

[goonys evil twin]

Who cares? He's not going to play here, ever. He knows that, which is why he was complaining back in training camp. #3 QBs aren't for someone who just sits and stagnates. It's a fluid depth-chart position that almost always has some young low draft pick who nobody knows about yet. We know about Orton. I doubt Kyle even wants to stick around under these conditions.

 

As for trading Griese----I suppose that's one of the only ways Kyle sticks around, but it leaves us in a much worse QB position than this year. I don't see why Angelo would suddenly want to leave us razor thin when he worked so hard to remedy that situation.

 

I really don't understand your theories on backup QBs.

[Banedon]

A big reason why the Bears are going to the Super Bowl this year instead of washing out in the first game is because Orton has faded from view.

 

And that's the bare bones truth baby.

 

Say what you want about Rex. Orton (or Griese for that matter) don't make those deep throws to Berrian or bring us down the field on their arm alone when the team needs a score.

 

There's a pretty good chance Kyle's going to be cut at the roster trim-downs next Summer, so I hope you enjoyed your last look at him :wink:

 

I doubt that seriously. Orton's struggles were in his true rookie year. He had 10 wins, and has had a year to sit, watch, talk to both Rex and Brian, and learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.

 

My guess is that we have the same 3 quarterbacks next year, or if we draft a middle round/late round QB, I could see Griese being traded and Kyle being #2.

 

Who cares? He's not going to play here, ever. He knows that, which is why he was complaining back in training camp. #3 QBs aren't for someone who just sits and stagnates. It's a fluid depth-chart position that almost always has some young low draft pick who nobody knows about yet. We know about Orton. I doubt Kyle even wants to stick around under these conditions.

 

As for trading Griese----I suppose that's one of the only ways Kyle sticks around, but it leaves us in a much worse QB position than this year. I don't see why Angelo would suddenly want to leave us razor thin when he worked so hard to remedy that situation.

 

Here's where we differ. I don't think we know about Orton yet. How can you know about Orton after 15 games as a true rookie? He didn't have a full grasp of the playbook yet.

 

You don't know that he's not ever going to play here...injuries happen. Grossman could get his leg smashed again or something. And I don't remember the complaining in training camp. He was probably upset that he got knocked down to #3 after being a somewhat successful starter last season, but he's a 2nd year player. I haven't seen him as upset as you imply.

[dew1679666265]

The Bears RBs are better then the Colts.

 

Push.

 

Yeah, I tend to agree. If someone has a edge here, it's probably pretty slight.

 

I would have to agree-the RB's are dead even.

 

Maybe I'm being a homer, but I think the Bears RBs are better...but thats not taking a lot away from the Colts RBs who I think are good. I think Jones and Addai are about a push, but I think Benson is better then Rhodes

 

 

Agree completely.

 

Benson gained 647 yards on 157 carries while scoring 6 TDs this year.

Rhodes gained 641 yards on 187 carries while scoring 5 TDs this year.

Very slight advantage, if any, for Benson.

 

Jones carried 296 times for 1210 yards and 6 TDs.

Addai carried 226 times for 1081 yards and 7 TDs.

About the same advantage for Addai that Benson has over Rhodes. If you make their carries equal at the rate that Addai had yards per carry this year, Joseph has over 1400 yards.

 

Overall, it's a complete push. I see no other way around it.

[goonys evil twin]

Benson gained 647 yards on 157 carries while scoring 6 TDs this year.

Rhodes gained 641 yards on 187 carries while scoring 5 TDs this year.

Very slight advantage, if any, for Benson.

 

Jones carried 296 times for 1210 yards and 6 TDs.

Addai carried 226 times for 1081 yards and 7 TDs.

About the same advantage for Addai that Benson has over Rhodes. If you make their carries equal at the rate that Addai had yards per carry this year, Joseph has over 1400 yards.

 

Overall, it's a complete push. I see no other way around it.

 

I see an obvious way around it. Addai and Rhodes have the benefit of playing with the Indy passing game. Benson and Jones do much of their work on their own. I think the Bears have a clear RB advantage, while Indy has a clear passing game advantage.

[CuseCubFan69]

Benson gained 647 yards on 157 carries while scoring 6 TDs this year.

Rhodes gained 641 yards on 187 carries while scoring 5 TDs this year.

Very slight advantage, if any, for Benson.

 

Jones carried 296 times for 1210 yards and 6 TDs.

Addai carried 226 times for 1081 yards and 7 TDs.

About the same advantage for Addai that Benson has over Rhodes. If you make their carries equal at the rate that Addai had yards per carry this year, Joseph has over 1400 yards.

 

Overall, it's a complete push. I see no other way around it.

 

I see an obvious way around it. Addai and Rhodes have the benefit of playing with the Indy passing game. Benson and Jones do much of their work on their own. I think the Bears have a clear RB advantage, while Indy has a clear passing game advantage.

 

I see it as the Bears have better run blockers and the Colts have better pass blockers.

[CubColtPacer]

Benson gained 647 yards on 157 carries while scoring 6 TDs this year.

Rhodes gained 641 yards on 187 carries while scoring 5 TDs this year.

Very slight advantage, if any, for Benson.

 

Jones carried 296 times for 1210 yards and 6 TDs.

Addai carried 226 times for 1081 yards and 7 TDs.

About the same advantage for Addai that Benson has over Rhodes. If you make their carries equal at the rate that Addai had yards per carry this year, Joseph has over 1400 yards.

 

Overall, it's a complete push. I see no other way around it.

 

I see an obvious way around it. Addai and Rhodes have the benefit of playing with the Indy passing game. Benson and Jones do much of their work on their own. I think the Bears have a clear RB advantage, while Indy has a clear passing game advantage.

 

The Bears line is also much better run blockers, while the Indy line, while getting better, is still primarily a pass blocking line. It's hard to tell if that would completely eliminate the QB advantage though or just eliminate some of it.

[Mark Priors Calves]

is anybody else surprised that benson is only averaging 2.9 per carry this postseason? he seemed to be rushing much better than that.

[dew1679666265]

Benson gained 647 yards on 157 carries while scoring 6 TDs this year.

Rhodes gained 641 yards on 187 carries while scoring 5 TDs this year.

Very slight advantage, if any, for Benson.

 

Jones carried 296 times for 1210 yards and 6 TDs.

Addai carried 226 times for 1081 yards and 7 TDs.

About the same advantage for Addai that Benson has over Rhodes. If you make their carries equal at the rate that Addai had yards per carry this year, Joseph has over 1400 yards.

 

Overall, it's a complete push. I see no other way around it.

 

I see an obvious way around it. Addai and Rhodes have the benefit of playing with the Indy passing game. Benson and Jones do much of their work on their own. I think the Bears have a clear RB advantage, while Indy has a clear passing game advantage.

 

The team around the running game is just as important as the running backs that actually carry the ball. Any running game's success must take into account the offensive line, the team's passing game, and how often a team actually runs the ball.

Thus, the Bears are still going to have to deal with the Indy passing game in the Super Bowl and therefore, if the stats play out, the Colts' running game will equal the Bears'.

It may be more impressive that the Bear tailbacks did what they did since their passing game was weaker, but it doesn't mean they are more of a strength in the game than the Colt tailbacks.

[da bears]

Michael Clark Duncan is awesome. Just called Skip Bayless out for being the cowardly fool that he is.

[Chris]

I see an obvious way around it. Addai and Rhodes have the benefit of playing with the Indy passing game. Benson and Jones do much of their work on their own. I think the Bears have a clear RB advantage, while Indy has a clear passing game advantage.

 

But wouldn't the fact that Indy has a better passing game open the possibility for the Colts to have a bigger running game in the SB?

[CuseCubFan69]

Michael Clark Duncan is awesome. Just called Skip Bayless out for being the cowardly fool that he is.

 

Is Bayless that guy from the Cold Pizza on ESPN show? If it is everytime he opens his mouth he has nothing good to say and the worst part of it is he often doesn't have a clue.

[da bears]

Michael Clark Duncan is awesome. Just called Skip Bayless out for being the cowardly fool that he is.

 

Is Bayless that guy from the Cold Pizza on ESPN show? If it is everytime he opens his mouth he has nothing good to say and the worst part of it is he often doesn't have a clue.

 

Yep thats the guy. Perfect analyst for ESPN.

[Soul]

A big reason why the Bears are going to the Super Bowl this year instead of washing out in the first game is because Orton has faded from view.

 

And that's the bare bones truth baby.

 

Say what you want about Rex. Orton (or Griese for that matter) don't make those deep throws to Berrian or bring us down the field on their arm alone when the team needs a score.

 

There's a pretty good chance Kyle's going to be cut at the roster trim-downs next Summer, so I hope you enjoyed your last look at him :wink:

 

I doubt that seriously. Orton's struggles were in his true rookie year. He had 10 wins, and has had a year to sit, watch, talk to both Rex and Brian, and learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.

 

My guess is that we have the same 3 quarterbacks next year, or if we draft a middle round/late round QB, I could see Griese being traded and Kyle being #2.

 

Who cares? He's not going to play here, ever. He knows that, which is why he was complaining back in training camp. #3 QBs aren't for someone who just sits and stagnates. It's a fluid depth-chart position that almost always has some young low draft pick who nobody knows about yet. We know about Orton. I doubt Kyle even wants to stick around under these conditions.

 

As for trading Griese----I suppose that's one of the only ways Kyle sticks around, but it leaves us in a much worse QB position than this year. I don't see why Angelo would suddenly want to leave us razor thin when he worked so hard to remedy that situation.

 

Here's where we differ. I don't think we know about Orton yet. How can you know about Orton after 15 games as a true rookie? He didn't have a full grasp of the playbook yet.

 

You don't know that he's not ever going to play here...injuries happen. Grossman could get his leg smashed again or something. And I don't remember the complaining in training camp. He was probably upset that he got knocked down to #3 after being a somewhat successful starter last season, but he's a 2nd year player. I haven't seen him as upset as you imply.

 

What else do you need to know?

 

How is he ever going to get a chance to show people any improvement running the practice squad and being inactive every week?

 

Look around the league. How many #3's are seeing serious time?

 

How would Orton ever get to a point with the Bears that he would see serious time? There won't even be a QB competition next year. Probably not the year after, either. Grossman/Griese is set. That's the combo that just got you to a Super Bowl.

 

Think Orton wants to run practice squads for the rest of his career? I'll bet there's a lower-tier team that would give him a shot at the #2.

[goonys evil twin]

I see an obvious way around it. Addai and Rhodes have the benefit of playing with the Indy passing game. Benson and Jones do much of their work on their own. I think the Bears have a clear RB advantage, while Indy has a clear passing game advantage.

 

But wouldn't the fact that Indy has a better passing game open the possibility for the Colts to have a bigger running game in the SB?

 

That's a seperate issue. Somebody said the Bears RBs are better. I didn't see "total running game". I saw RB. I think the Bears RBs are better than Indy's.

[Chris]

Personally I don't see any way you can determine the better RB duo. After all, a team could have more yards on the ground and still lose the game. A guy could break one off for 50 without a score and inflate the YPC while not opening up the passing game. Would he be a better RB because he had more yards.

[goonys evil twin]

What else do you need to know?

 

How is he ever going to get a chance to show people any improvement running the practice squad and being inactive every week?

 

Look around the league. How many #3's are seeing serious time?

 

How would Orton ever get to a point with the Bears that he would see serious time? There won't even be a QB competition next year. Probably not the year after, either. Grossman/Griese is set. That's the combo that just got you to a Super Bowl.

 

Think Orton wants to run practice squads for the rest of his career? I'll bet there's a lower-tier team that would give him a shot at the #2.

 

Lots of QB's progress up the ranks from backup status. Orton doesn't have to run practice squads the rest of his career. But he could end up being a nice Mike Tomczak style longterm backup role with the Bears. Griese may or may not be back next year. I don't think it's a guarantee he's better than Kyle by then. Orton can progress via practice and studying. He's under contract, isn't he? A 3rd string QB doesn't have much leverage to force a team to move him.

 

I think you're being entirely too impatient with this situation. There's no need to do anything with Kyle right now. Even if they keep the same 1/2/3 next year, Griese is definitely not coming back for a 3rd year as the backup. By 2008, at 26, Orton could be the proverbial heartbeat away from the starting job. I definitely think that he would have to consider that a very nice career trend for him.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

Im sick of this crap about the Bears will lose because Manning > Grossman. So what? The Bears RBs are better then the Colts. The Bears Linebackers are way better then the Colts. The Bears special teams is better then the Colts. Besides, Rex Grossman is not playing against Peyton Manning. That's not even an issue.

 

:cheers:

 

SERIOUSLY IF I COULD START THE CORNEY SLOW TO FAST CHEER THAT PEOPLE DO WHEN SOMEONE DID OR SAID SOMETHING IMPRESSIVE I WOULD!!! I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS POINT!!! IF THE SUPER BOWL WAS CAGE MATCH BETWEEN GROSSMAN AND MANNING THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT.... BUT ITS NOT.

[CuseCubFan69]

Im sick of this crap about the Bears will lose because Manning > Grossman. So what? The Bears RBs are better then the Colts. The Bears Linebackers are way better then the Colts. The Bears special teams is better then the Colts. Besides, Rex Grossman is not playing against Peyton Manning. That's not even an issue.

 

:cheers:

 

SERIOUSLY IF I COULD START THE CORNEY SLOW TO FAST CHEER THAT PEOPLE DO WHEN SOMEONE DID OR SAID SOMETHING IMPRESSIVE I WOULD!!! I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS POINT!!! IF THE SUPER BOWL WAS CAGE MATCH BETWEEN GROSSMAN AND MANNING THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT.... BUT ITS NOT.

 

True but let's face it, QB's get too much credit for wins and losses in the NFL.