Cubs Sign Marquis to 3/21

[Soul]

Alright Larry, you wanted him, you fix him.

 

 

Here's hoping we aren't sitting here in August talking about how Marquis is stealing from the team.

[Wheelimus]

Here's hoping we're sitting here in August talking about Jason Marquis, MVP candidate! :lol:

 

**keeps sipping on the kool-aid**

[goonys evil twin]

Here's hoping we're sitting here in August talking about Jason Marquis, MVP candidate! :lol:

 

**keeps sipping on the kool-aid**

 

At his best, I think he'd have a tough time even getting Cy Young consideration, let alone MVP. I'm just hoping Marquis can give the Cubs 200 innings of better than 4.50 ERA type pitching.

 

But if we're really hoping, I'm hoping that Zambrano, Prior, Lilly, Hill, Guzman, Marshall and Miller make Marquis expendable and we're talking about the great young hitter we got in exchance for him in a deadline deal.

[UK1679666180]

"I knew I wasn't far off," Marquis said on Tuesday. "Knowing the knowledge Larry had, they said he would be a good guy to go see. It was nothing more than to get my mind right and get in a positive frame of mind."

 

"I was just a hair off," Marquis said of his mechanics. "It wasn't allowing me to execute my pitches the way I wanted to. With the adjustment we made, it'll help me work my sinker down like I'm capable of doing."

 

Let's hope he figured it out.

 

Typically, to re-program the slightest mechanical flaw takes 6 weeks to correct and then it becomes a wait and see if he fully processed it. Throwing BP in the Fall/Winter won't give you an idea that he won't go back to what he was comfortable with in '06.

 

The 1st test will during one of his 1st starts and he becomes fatigued on the mound, struggles and gets himself into jams, how he responds to that adversity will determine the 1st test. Some pitchers will go back to what got them there.

 

The 2nd test (depending on if he passes the 1st test) will be during the season probably around the AS break or August when the daily grind of every 5 days drains the pitcher physically and more importantly mentally. You'll never be as fresh as you were at the start of the season.

 

Then if he does pass those tests, whose to say the correction of his mechanics doesn't lead to tipping?

 

For years everyone has been commentiong on Wood's mechanics. He's throwing across his body, he's rushing, he's off balance and it's causing him to fall to the 1st base side, etc.

 

It's not easy to correct mechanics, this article simplifies to overall process too much.

[Soul]

"I knew I wasn't far off," Marquis said on Tuesday. "Knowing the knowledge Larry had, they said he would be a good guy to go see. It was nothing more than to get my mind right and get in a positive frame of mind."

 

"I was just a hair off," Marquis said of his mechanics. "It wasn't allowing me to execute my pitches the way I wanted to. With the adjustment we made, it'll help me work my sinker down like I'm capable of doing."

 

Let's hope he figured it out.

 

Typically, to re-program the slightest mechanical flaw takes 6 weeks to correct and then it becomes a wait and see if he fully processed it. Throwing BP in the Fall/Winter won't give you an idea that he won't go back to what he was comfortable with in '06.

 

The 1st test will during one of his 1st starts and he becomes fatigued on the mound, struggles and gets himself into jams, how he responds to that adversity will determine the 1st test. Some pitchers will go back to what got them there.

 

The 2nd test (depending on if he passes the 1st test) will be during the season probably around the AS break or August when the daily grind of every 5 days drains the pitcher physically and more importantly mentally. You'll never be as fresh as you were at the start of the season.

 

Then if he does pass those tests, whose to say the correction of his mechanics doesn't lead to tipping?

 

For years everyone has been commentiong on Wood's mechanics. He's throwing across his body, he's rushing, he's off balance and it's causing him to fall to the 1st base side, etc.

 

It's not easy to correct mechanics, this article simplifies to overall process too much.

 

Just drink your koolade and everything will be fine.

 

Until April, that is 8-)

[CubsWin]

whether or not he "outperforms" the other "fifth starters" does not matter. Slotting pitchers and saying "oh he's a fine ____ slot starter" is worthless. If you slot each spot at league average then guess what kind of team you're going to be? Average. Big deal...

 

On the other hand look at this way, is he better than Guzman? Probably not. Is he better than Marshall? Maybe. Is he better than Marmol? Maybe. If he's our fifth starter and we signed him for two million dollars that we can easily write off when Guzman's excelling in AAA (which is likely) that's one thing. But no, he's signed to an albatross of a three year contrat that can't be "eaten" at any point due to Jim Hendry's [expletive] misunderstanding of the concept of money.

 

You're asking me to compare him to the rest of the league's fifth starters when we're paying him seven mil? He's not even the seventh best starter on our team and we gave him 21 mil over three years. Christ. (Z, Prior, Hill, Lilly, Miller, Guzman are all guys I'd say are better without a doubt).

 

I have no idea if there are 150 starters out there who will outperform him, I do know that the Cubs have 7-8 guys who would outperform him or at least perform as good as him. That's all that matters.

Are you responding to my post?

 

If you are, you sure putting a lot of words in my mouth. I asked you a question. I didn't make any of the statements you are responding to.

 

I'm just looking to understand your position on Marquis. You made the comment that Marquis should concentrate on being a relief pitcher among quoting various other sabermetrics that you interpreted to mean that even in '04 and '05 he still was a bad starting pitcher, IIRC. So, I'm asking if this means he will definitely fail next season and, (being replacement level and someone who should focus on being a reliever) won't even be above league average for a 5th starter.

 

I never mentioned that it was acceptable to shoot for average starters at every position. What are you reading?

[inari]

Anyone listened to the Marquis conference call? He's got an incredibly thick and obnoxious New York accent.

[David]

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

 

Why are people so obsessed with this "proven" label? What has Marquis proven? That he can be terrible? Please don't respond to me with some 15 win garbage.

 

I sure hope at least one of Guzman or Marshall can outdo what Marquis did last year, because otherwise, what in the world is our farm system producing?

 

Why is it such a leap of faith to assume that one of these pitchers (Guzman, Marshall, Marmol) can perform just as adequately as, if not better than, Marquis for MUCH less money and no big long-term financial committment, along with the added benefit that you may be developing a young pitcher that you can slot into the rotation for years to come?

[goonys evil twin]

Anyone listened to the Marquis conference call? He's got an incredibly thick and obnoxious New York accent.

 

I've heard much more drastic versions of that accent coming from other Long Islanders.

[C.C.]

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

 

Why are people so obsessed with this "proven" label? What has Marquis proven? That he can be terrible? Please don't respond to me with some 15 win garbage.

 

I sure hope at least one of Guzman or Marshall can outdo what Marquis did last year, because otherwise, what in the world is our farm system producing?

 

Why is it such a leap of faith to assume that one of these pitchers (Guzman, Marshall, Marmol) can perform just as adequately as, if not better than, Marquis for MUCH less money and no big long-term financial committment, along with the added benefit that you may be developing a young pitcher that you can slot into the rotation for years to come?

 

Didn't we take that leap of faith last year? One of these guys could be good but the chances of all three of them being good is one huge leap of faith.

[David]

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

 

Why are people so obsessed with this "proven" label? What has Marquis proven? That he can be terrible? Please don't respond to me with some 15 win garbage.

 

I sure hope at least one of Guzman or Marshall can outdo what Marquis did last year, because otherwise, what in the world is our farm system producing?

 

Why is it such a leap of faith to assume that one of these pitchers (Guzman, Marshall, Marmol) can perform just as adequately as, if not better than, Marquis for MUCH less money and no big long-term financial committment, along with the added benefit that you may be developing a young pitcher that you can slot into the rotation for years to come?

 

Didn't we take that leap of faith last year? One of these guys could be good but the chances of all three of them being good is one huge leap of faith.

 

We're not talking about last year, we're talking about this year. You only need one of them to be good to fill one rotation spot.

 

But if you think it's worth 3 years and 20 million dollars for the assuredness that we'll have someone who has shown he can be a below average pitcher eating up innings in our rotation, far be it from me to change your mind.

[C.C.]

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

 

Why are people so obsessed with this "proven" label? What has Marquis proven? That he can be terrible? Please don't respond to me with some 15 win garbage.

 

I sure hope at least one of Guzman or Marshall can outdo what Marquis did last year, because otherwise, what in the world is our farm system producing?

 

Why is it such a leap of faith to assume that one of these pitchers (Guzman, Marshall, Marmol) can perform just as adequately as, if not better than, Marquis for MUCH less money and no big long-term financial committment, along with the added benefit that you may be developing a young pitcher that you can slot into the rotation for years to come?

 

Didn't we take that leap of faith last year? One of these guys could be good but the chances of all three of them being good is one huge leap of faith.

 

We're not talking about last year, we're talking about this year. You only need one of them to be good to fill one rotation spot.

 

But if you think it's worth 3 years and 20 million dollars for the assuredness that we'll have someone who has shown he can be a below average pitcher eating up innings in our rotation, far be it from me to change your mind.

 

I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. It seems he and Rothschild feel confident that they found what was wrong with him. So let's just see how it goes. Chances are one of the kids will be brought up because the staff isn't going to stay healthy for the whole year. Hopefully Gooz can spot start and pitch long relief. I'm not here to change your mind, but I'm not going to freak out about the signing. Let's just wait and see what happens.

[abuck1220]

 

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about.

 

and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless.

[C.C.]

 

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about.

 

and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless.

 

And I can ask you what's so proven about Gooz and Marshall? Again, nothing is a sure thing and I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. If Gooz and Marshall are so much better they'll get their shot.

[CubColtPacer]

 

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about.

 

and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless.

 

He's had 5 years with at least 15 starts-he's been very good, good, and slightly above average in 3 of those-in the other 2, one of them was bad, and one of them was simply awful. He also had 1 season in the bullpen thrown in where he was very bad also. While he's been way up and way down, I certainly think you're understating his career to insinuate that he has not had significant times during his career where he has pitched as an above average starter to go with the significant times where he has pitched as a below average or worse starter.

[abuck1220]

 

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about.

 

and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless.

 

And I can ask you what's so proven about Gooz and Marshall? Again, nothing is a sure thing and I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. If Gooz and Marshall are so much better they'll get their shot.

 

no they won't. they're not going to bump marquis out of the rotation no matter how bad he is.

 

oh, and guzman and marshall have proven that their paychecks are a lot smaller than marquis'. i'd agree with you that i'd rather have too much pitching than not enough, but not if you're paying 7 mil a year to the worst pitcher in baseball.

[fromthestretch]

 

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about.

 

and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless.

 

And I can ask you what's so proven about Gooz and Marshall? Again, nothing is a sure thing and I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. If Gooz and Marshall are so much better they'll get their shot.

 

That's just it. It's not certain that Guzman and Marshall will get their shot. The Cubs aren't going to want to toss Marquis aside when he's making $7 mil per season. Look how long they kept throwing Rusch out there, and he was doing a lot worse than I expect Marquis to do. It's one thing if he's blocking the younger pitchers while actually pitching well. It's another if he's blocking these guys while giving up 5.5 runs per game.

 

At least Guzman and Marshall have options left, and both could probably benefit from some time at AAA. But if you're going to sign someone to fill a spot in the rotation until one of them is ready, you sign someone to a Wade Miller-type contract, not a three-year expensive deal.

 

There are two things we can hope for at this point:

 

1. Marquis pitches around league average, so his contract won't be too difficult to trade if/when one of the youngsters is ready to take a spot in the rotation.

 

2. Marquis instantly becomes Cy Young calibur as soon as he puts on a Cubs uniform.

 

Obviously, #1 is a lot more realistic, but still isn't a guarantee. If Marquis' ERA hovers around 6.00 again this year, he's going to hurt this team on the field, and he'll be very difficult to trade with his contract.

[C.C.]

 

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about.

 

and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless.

 

And I can ask you what's so proven about Gooz and Marshall? Again, nothing is a sure thing and I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. If Gooz and Marshall are so much better they'll get their shot.

 

That's just it. It's not certain that Guzman and Marshall will get their shot. The Cubs aren't going to want to toss Marquis aside when he's making $7 mil per season. Look how long they kept throwing Rusch out there, and he was doing a lot worse than I expect Marquis to do. It's one thing if he's blocking the younger pitchers while actually pitching well. It's another if he's blocking these guys while giving up 5.5 runs per game.

 

At least Guzman and Marshall have options left, and both could probably benefit from some time at AAA. But if you're going to sign someone to fill a spot in the rotation until one of them is ready, you sign someone to a Wade Miller-type contract, not a three-year expensive deal.

 

There are two things we can hope for at this point:

 

1. Marquis pitches around league average, so his contract won't be too difficult to trade if/when one of the youngsters is ready to take a spot in the rotation.

 

2. Marquis instantly becomes Cy Young calibur as soon as he puts on a Cubs uniform.

 

Obviously, #1 is a lot more realistic, but still isn't a guarantee. If Marquis' ERA hovers around 6.00 again this year, he's going to hurt this team on the field, and he'll be very difficult to trade with his contract.

 

Nothing is a guarantee and lets just see what happens. Let's see if Rothschild can actually earn his keep and fix'em. Again, someone is bound to get hurt and one of the kids will get a shot.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

whether or not he "outperforms" the other "fifth starters" does not matter. Slotting pitchers and saying "oh he's a fine ____ slot starter" is worthless. If you slot each spot at league average then guess what kind of team you're going to be? Average. Big deal...

 

On the other hand look at this way, is he better than Guzman? Probably not. Is he better than Marshall? Maybe. Is he better than Marmol? Maybe. If he's our fifth starter and we signed him for two million dollars that we can easily write off when Guzman's excelling in AAA (which is likely) that's one thing. But no, he's signed to an albatross of a three year contrat that can't be "eaten" at any point due to Jim Hendry's [expletive] misunderstanding of the concept of money.

 

You're asking me to compare him to the rest of the league's fifth starters when we're paying him seven mil? He's not even the seventh best starter on our team and we gave him 21 mil over three years. Christ. (Z, Prior, Hill, Lilly, Miller, Guzman are all guys I'd say are better without a doubt).

 

I have no idea if there are 150 starters out there who will outperform him, I do know that the Cubs have 7-8 guys who would outperform him or at least perform as good as him. That's all that matters.

 

I can understand the frustration with Marquis, but to say Prior, Miller, and Guzman are better than he is "without a doubt" and that the Cubs have 7-8 guys who can match his performance is certainly questionable. Prior, Miller, Guzman, and the other young pitchers have a lot of question marks next to their names.

 

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

Marshall pitched better than Marquis last season.

[Mephistopheles]

God I hate the word "proven." People need to realize that AAA hitters aren't chopped liver and minor league translations are useful for pitchers.

[Soul]

God I hate the word "proven." People need to realize that AAA hitters aren't chopped liver and minor league translations are useful for pitchers.

 

To be honest, I'm getting sick of the overuse of this word too.

 

It doesn't exist in all the world of sports. There's no such animal.

[CubsWin]

The title of this thread says Marquis signed for 3/20 and attributes that to Cubs.com. As far as I can tell, the only article on Cubs.com about the Marquis signing has him at 3/21. Not a big difference, but...

[Shavo]

 

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about.

 

and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless.

 

And I can ask you what's so proven about Gooz and Marshall? Again, nothing is a sure thing and I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. If Gooz and Marshall are so much better they'll get their shot.

 

no they won't. they're not going to bump marquis out of the rotation no matter how bad he is.

 

oh, and guzman and marshall have proven that their paychecks are a lot smaller than marquis'. i'd agree with you that i'd rather have too much pitching than not enough, but not if you're paying 7 mil a year to the worst pitcher in baseball.

 

Since when is he the worst pitcher in baseball? Are you kidding me?

[CubsWin]

 

I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

 

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about.

 

and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless.

 

And I can ask you what's so proven about Gooz and Marshall? Again, nothing is a sure thing and I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. If Gooz and Marshall are so much better they'll get their shot.

 

no they won't. they're not going to bump marquis out of the rotation no matter how bad he is.

 

oh, and guzman and marshall have proven that their paychecks are a lot smaller than marquis'. i'd agree with you that i'd rather have too much pitching than not enough, but not if you're paying 7 mil a year to the worst pitcher in baseball.

Yeah, I agree whole-heartedly. Good thing the Cubs didn't do that. That would have really been stupid.

[frostwyrm]

Lilly and Marquis will make $22 mil in 2009. What a bargain.