Why NOT Adam Dunn? (Merged)

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I'd love to get Dunn, but we'd have to either play him ahead of Murton or play Murton in RF and Soriano in CF to fit him.

 

That was the plan that I had. Murton can play RF, he's not THAT deficient defensively, and Hendry can sign his boy Cliff Floyd as backup.

 

How about Jones, Dempster, and Marshall for Dunn. I'd even be willing to kick in a Ryan Harvey or Dopirak to get it done.

 

Take it easy there, Vance. You sure there aren't some more slugs you'd like to spin off, too? :D I don't think anyone in baseball is going to get excited about Ryan Harvey or Brian Dopirak.

 

And Dempster is a poor choice, he's been in Cincinnati once before, and he didn't leave on good terms.

 

Jones, Marshall and Ohman however, that might be a conversation starter if Kent Mercker is truly finished. They need a loogy, and we have three.

[tkenm356]

That's the problem with Dunn, it's not that his K-rate is high, his K-Rate is EXTREMELY high. What makes it worse is that his defense is downright AWFUL. Arguably... no wait, scratch that, THE WORST OUTFIELDER IN THE GAME. Bar-none.

 

We can't move him to 1st. His HR and OBP would be a welcome addition, but we can't afford to have the worst defensive outfield in the majors, one of them being a guy who is really only in the majors because he can hit home runs and that's it.

 

The only positive I see outside his HR/OBP potential is that he's only 27 and has yet to hit his prime years.

 

I say pass on Dunn. We already had a free-swinging home run hitter on our team. In my opinion we don't really need that much more power. Soriano, Lee, and Ramirez will provide plenty. Murton and Barrett will supplement it well enough. We don't need Dunn, he would be an embarassment, the fans would tear him apart after each strikeout

[goonys evil twin]

Dunn's numbers were awful last year. I wouldn't do Pie straight up for him.

 

If an 855 OPS and 99 runs scored qualifies as awful in your book, then sign me up for a team of awful players, please. You do know how many runs scored our LEADOFF man had in 2006, right?

 

Jacque Jones out slugged him and put up a 833 OPS. And who cares how many runs he scored?

 

Jacque Jones out SLGd him, but I wouldn't say he out slugged Dunn. JJ just had a few more singles. Dunn blew him away with BB, and subsequently OBP.

[ToupeeOnFire]

We should just have one continuous Adam Dunn thread that can be resurrected whenever the need arises. I swear, it would rival Dusty's Bad Managerial Moves in timelessness.

 

Anyways, Dunn, like Mike Bellhorn before him, tends to get overrated by some folk here simply because his skillset centers on aspects of the game the Cubs don't seem to put much stock in. He's a decent player who's considerable weaknesses will prevent him from becoming anything other than 'pretty good'. And frankly, the guy looks like a DH in waiting.

 

I think any potential starting point for such a deal would involve Rich Hill, remember that old chestnut? It's kind of interesting how the perspective on that has changed.

[nick23]

Dunn's numbers were awful last year. I wouldn't do Pie straight up for him.

 

If an 855 OPS and 99 runs scored qualifies as awful in your book, then sign me up for a team of awful players, please. You do know how many runs scored our LEADOFF man had in 2006, right?

 

Jacque Jones out slugged him and put up a 833 OPS. And who cares how many runs he scored?

 

Jacque Jones out SLGd him, but I wouldn't say he out slugged Dunn. JJ just had a few more singles. Dunn blew him away with BB, and subsequently OBP.

 

Dunn only had 5 more XBH's that Jones. I'm not opposed to having Dunn, I just wouldn't give up great prospects for him.

[goonys evil twin]

 

Anyways, Dunn, like Mike Bellhorn before him, tends to get overrated by some folk here simply because his skillset centers on aspects of the game the Cubs don't seem to put much stock in.

 

Yeah, and if the Cubs don't put stock in it then it must not be important. The Cubs have an unusually high need for OBP ability, because of their unusually low collection of OBP.

 

He also has some power, something the Cubs do value.

 

 

Mark Bellhorn.

[goonys evil twin]

Dunn's numbers were awful last year. I wouldn't do Pie straight up for him.

 

If an 855 OPS and 99 runs scored qualifies as awful in your book, then sign me up for a team of awful players, please. You do know how many runs scored our LEADOFF man had in 2006, right?

 

Jacque Jones out slugged him and put up a 833 OPS. And who cares how many runs he scored?

 

Jacque Jones out SLGd him, but I wouldn't say he out slugged Dunn. JJ just had a few more singles. Dunn blew him away with BB, and subsequently OBP.

 

Dunn only had 5 more XBH's that Jones. I'm not opposed to having Dunn, I just wouldn't give up great prospects for him.

 

And 77 more walks.

[b_wiggy_66]

Not the Dunn thread again :roll:

[ToupeeOnFire]

 

Anyways, Dunn, like Mike Bellhorn before him, tends to get overrated by some folk here simply because his skillset centers on aspects of the game the Cubs don't seem to put much stock in.

 

Yeah, and if the Cubs don't put stock in it then it must not be important. The Cubs have an unusually high need for OBP ability, because of their unusually low collection of OBP.

I never said OBP wasn't important, nor do I disagree about the Cubs' need for OBP. Just saying that because Dunn does excel at one skill that the Cubs frustratingly do not, many tend to overlook his high strikeout/low BA, his horrible defense, and a body-type that suggest he might not age gracefully. He seems to be the classic Bill Jamesian example of a young player with old man skills. Not saying that I wouldn't mind the Cubs picking him up and sticking him in left for a couple of years (his future is as a 1B/DH), but I don't value him as much as others seem to do.

[goonys evil twin]

I never said OBP wasn't important, nor do I disagree about the Cubs' need for OBP. Just saying that because Dunn does excel at one skill that the Cubs frustratingly do not, many tend to overlook his high strikeout/low BA,

 

Because high strikeout and low BA don't matter if you have a good OBP/SLG. Strikeout totals are meaningless. BA doesn't tell you much of everything. Unlike Mark Bellhorn, Dunn actually has a long history of putting up good numbers.

 

He's not a perfect player, far from it. But I don't think anybody is claiming such a thing. He is, however, a perfect matchup with the Cubs biggest needs (LH power bat with OBP ability) offensively.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I never said OBP wasn't important, nor do I disagree about the Cubs' need for OBP. Just saying that because Dunn does excel at one skill that the Cubs frustratingly do not, many tend to overlook his high strikeout/low BA,

 

Because high strikeout and low BA don't matter if you have a good OBP/SLG. Strikeout totals are meaningless. BA doesn't tell you much of everything. Unlike Mark Bellhorn, Dunn actually has a long history of putting up good numbers.

 

He's not a perfect player, far from it. But I don't think anybody is claiming such a thing. He is, however, a perfect matchup with the Cubs biggest needs (LH power bat with OBP ability) offensively.

 

Strikeouts are not meaningless. You do nothing to change the state of the game with a strikeout other than make an out. No runners are moved along. That's not meaningless. It negatively impacts run production.

 

BA is overrated, but a hit is still better than a walk. If player A has a line of .300/.400/.500 and player B has a line of .250/.400/.500, you take player A. Hits are more valuable than walks. Dunn's lack of hits is a problem.

[XZero771679666304]

I never said OBP wasn't important, nor do I disagree about the Cubs' need for OBP. Just saying that because Dunn does excel at one skill that the Cubs frustratingly do not, many tend to overlook his high strikeout/low BA,

 

Because high strikeout and low BA don't matter if you have a good OBP/SLG. Strikeout totals are meaningless. BA doesn't tell you much of everything. Unlike Mark Bellhorn, Dunn actually has a long history of putting up good numbers.

 

He's not a perfect player, far from it. But I don't think anybody is claiming such a thing. He is, however, a perfect matchup with the Cubs biggest needs (LH power bat with OBP ability) offensively.

 

What do you make of the fact that his OBP and SLG have declined each of the past 2 years? I'm not blasting on Dunn, but his numbers have been on the downward trend.

[ToupeeOnFire]

I never said OBP wasn't important, nor do I disagree about the Cubs' need for OBP. Just saying that because Dunn does excel at one skill that the Cubs frustratingly do not, many tend to overlook his high strikeout/low BA,

 

Because high strikeout and low BA don't matter if you have a good OBP/SLG. Strikeout totals are meaningless. BA doesn't tell you much of everything. Unlike Mark Bellhorn, Dunn actually has a long history of putting up good numbers.

 

He's not a perfect player, far from it. But I don't think anybody is claiming such a thing. He is, however, a perfect matchup with the Cubs biggest needs (LH power bat with OBP ability) offensively.

Well, the high strikeout/low BA does negate some of his OBP and SLG. For a guy with his power and walks, he's only reached a .400 OBP once and has slugged below .500 three out of his six total years. Point is, the lack of contact is preventing him from being the player he could be. Of course, maybe he'll turn into Mark McGwire, and I'll have to eat crow.

[goonys evil twin]

What do you make of the fact that his OBP and SLG have declined each of the past 2 years? I'm not blasting on Dunn, but his numbers have been on the downward trend.

 

It is a concern. Then again, lots of guys have down years. When a down year still results in solid production, I'm not going to freak out about it.

[goonys evil twin]

I never said OBP wasn't important, nor do I disagree about the Cubs' need for OBP. Just saying that because Dunn does excel at one skill that the Cubs frustratingly do not, many tend to overlook his high strikeout/low BA,

 

Because high strikeout and low BA don't matter if you have a good OBP/SLG. Strikeout totals are meaningless. BA doesn't tell you much of everything. Unlike Mark Bellhorn, Dunn actually has a long history of putting up good numbers.

 

He's not a perfect player, far from it. But I don't think anybody is claiming such a thing. He is, however, a perfect matchup with the Cubs biggest needs (LH power bat with OBP ability) offensively.

Well, the high strikeout/low BA does negate some of his OBP and SLG.

 

No, it doesn't actually.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I never said OBP wasn't important, nor do I disagree about the Cubs' need for OBP. Just saying that because Dunn does excel at one skill that the Cubs frustratingly do not, many tend to overlook his high strikeout/low BA,

 

Because high strikeout and low BA don't matter if you have a good OBP/SLG. Strikeout totals are meaningless. BA doesn't tell you much of everything. Unlike Mark Bellhorn, Dunn actually has a long history of putting up good numbers.

 

He's not a perfect player, far from it. But I don't think anybody is claiming such a thing. He is, however, a perfect matchup with the Cubs biggest needs (LH power bat with OBP ability) offensively.

 

Strikeouts are not meaningless. You do nothing to change the state of the game with a strikeout other than make an out. No runners are moved along. That's not meaningless. It negatively impacts run production.

 

BA is overrated, but a hit is still better than a walk. If player A has a line of .300/.400/.500 and player B has a line of .250/.400/.500, you take player A. Hits are more valuable than walks. Dunn's lack of hits is a problem.

 

 

For the hundredth time, you cannot look at strikeouts in a vacuum. They are a byproduct of the approach. To use an overly simplistic example, a strikeout + an extra base hit is better than a ground out + a single.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

The Cubs also just hired a very good batting coach who's expertise is in getting hitters to be more selective at the plate. Perry might work wonders with a guy like Dunn.

[XZero771679666304]

What do you make of the fact that his OBP and SLG have declined each of the past 2 years? I'm not blasting on Dunn, but his numbers have been on the downward trend.

 

It is a concern. Then again, lots of guys have down years. When a down year still results in solid production, I'm not going to freak out about it.

 

No, but his flaws become harder to ignore at a .855 OPS than the .957 he posted in 2004. If that .855 becomes, say, .825, then he is nearing the point of be a liability rather than an asset.

[goonys evil twin]

The Cubs also just hired a very good batting coach who's expertise is in getting hitters to be more selective at the plate. Perry might work wonders with a guy like Dunn.

 

He's not going to help Dunn become more selective.

[ToupeeOnFire]

I never said OBP wasn't important, nor do I disagree about the Cubs' need for OBP. Just saying that because Dunn does excel at one skill that the Cubs frustratingly do not, many tend to overlook his high strikeout/low BA,

 

Because high strikeout and low BA don't matter if you have a good OBP/SLG. Strikeout totals are meaningless. BA doesn't tell you much of everything. Unlike Mark Bellhorn, Dunn actually has a long history of putting up good numbers.

 

He's not a perfect player, far from it. But I don't think anybody is claiming such a thing. He is, however, a perfect matchup with the Cubs biggest needs (LH power bat with OBP ability) offensively.

Well, the high strikeout/low BA does negate some of his OBP and SLG.

 

No, it doesn't actually.

Explain.

 

By striking out as much as he does, he has to have an ungodly BABIP to maintain any kind of batting average. The high strikeouts directly contribute to his low BA. The low BA drags down his OBP and the lack of hits from not putting balls in play (even if they are just singles) affect his SLG.

[goonys evil twin]

Explain.

 

By striking out as much as he does, he has to have an ungodly BABIP to maintain any kind of batting average. The high strikeouts directly contribute to his low BA. The low BA drags down his OBP and the lack of hits from not putting balls in play (even if they are just singles) affect his SLG.

 

The outs he makes by striking out are already accounted for in his OBP and SLG, therefore they cannot negate whatever OBP and SLG he has at the end of the season.

[XZero771679666304]

I never said OBP wasn't important, nor do I disagree about the Cubs' need for OBP. Just saying that because Dunn does excel at one skill that the Cubs frustratingly do not, many tend to overlook his high strikeout/low BA,

 

Because high strikeout and low BA don't matter if you have a good OBP/SLG. Strikeout totals are meaningless. BA doesn't tell you much of everything. Unlike Mark Bellhorn, Dunn actually has a long history of putting up good numbers.

 

He's not a perfect player, far from it. But I don't think anybody is claiming such a thing. He is, however, a perfect matchup with the Cubs biggest needs (LH power bat with OBP ability) offensively.

Well, the high strikeout/low BA does negate some of his OBP and SLG.

 

No, it doesn't actually.

Explain.

 

By striking out as much as he does, he has to have an ungodly BABIP to maintain any kind of batting average. The high strikeouts directly contribute to his low BA. The low BA drags down his OBP and the lack of hits from not putting balls in play (even if they are just singles) affect his SLG.

 

If a guy has a .325 AVG and .380 OBP, does he contribute more than the guy with the .240 AVG and .380 OBP? No, especially when that guy hits 40+ HR, and over half of his hits are XBH. As long as Dunn's OBP remains high, the strikeouts are a moot point.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

THE REDS SHOULD FLEECE THE CUBS IF THEY WANT TO TRADE DUNN THERE.

[tkenm356]

Explain.

 

By striking out as much as he does, he has to have an ungodly BABIP to maintain any kind of batting average. The high strikeouts directly contribute to his low BA. The low BA drags down his OBP and the lack of hits from not putting balls in play (even if they are just singles) affect his SLG.

 

The outs he makes by striking out are already accounted for in his OBP and SLG, therefore they cannot negate whatever OBP and SLG he has at the end of the season.

 

The cookie stand counts as an eatery, the eatery is apart of the food court!

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Explain.

 

By striking out as much as he does, he has to have an ungodly BABIP to maintain any kind of batting average. The high strikeouts directly contribute to his low BA. The low BA drags down his OBP and the lack of hits from not putting balls in play (even if they are just singles) affect his SLG.

 

The outs he makes by striking out are already accounted for in his OBP and SLG, therefore they cannot negate whatever OBP and SLG he has at the end of the season.

 

The cookie stand counts as an eatery, the eatery is apart of the food court!

 

Eateries that operate within the designated square downstairs count as food court. Anything outside, of said designated square, counts as an autonomous unit for mid-mall snacking.