Alternatives for Shortstop

[cybercub]

1) In-house. Izturis or Cedeno. IMO a very BAD idea.

 

2) Julio Lugo. Suspect defense at SS, questionable bat vs. NL pitching and will likely cost about $9M per season. IMO mediocre at best.

 

Neither option is very good and it appears a trade to fill this position would be the best decision.

 

Why not talk to Atlanta about Renteria? He is owed appx $18M over the next 2 seasons and Boston was completely responsible for his 2006 salary. I think Atlanta may be willing to listen, especially if Huson could be moved in the same deal.

 

I recently read that Baltimore was interested in aquiring Hudson and was will to include Hayden Penn in the deal. Either Mazzone thinks Penn isn't as good as his billing or he thinks Hudson will be better than his recent numbers would indicate. IMO the Cubs could easily match or exceed this offer and including Renteria would save Atlanta $51M over the next 3 seasons.

 

Soriano

Renteria

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Murton

Barrett

PIE

[mg420]

theriot?

[AAApittsburgh]

I'm just curious as to why Lugo's defense is suspect? I always thought he was about average defensively. I lived in Florida for about a year and saw him play on multiple occasions and I don't remember any problems with his D. Edited November 27, 2006 by AAApittsburgh

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Lugo's defense is average to above average, nothing suspect about it.

[Omar]

Izzy and Cedeno are gambles.. and Cubs havent been lucky with those in the past.

 

What about Hanley Ramirez? He had a good season last year, and is bound to get better. I wonder what Florida wants/needs.

[Drew Doughty]

Izzy and Cedeno are gambles.. and Cubs havent been lucky with those in the past.

 

What about Hanley Ramirez? He had a good season last year, and is bound to get better. I wonder what Florida wants/needs.

 

What incentive do they have to give up Ramirez?

[Butterscup1679666578]

Lugo is the only answer here, and it needs to get done.

[jjgman21]

theriot?

 

I'd really like to see that. it's amazing how the difference between some players and others is nothing other than luck, timing, fortunate circumstances, etc.

 

theriot is probably every bit the ball player Eckstein is. Eckstein gets a chance with the Angels and forges a long career. other players are blocked in an organization, play for an organization that won't play rookies, whatever, and they don't get the chance even though they are just as talented as guys who play a long long time in the league.

[CubinNY]

theriot?

 

I'd really like to see that. it's amazing how the difference between some players and others is nothing other than luck, timing, fortunate circumstances, etc.

 

theriot is probably every bit the ball player Eckstein is. Eckstein gets a chance with the Angels and forges a long career. other players are blocked in an organization, play for an organization that won't play rookies, whatever, and they don't get the chance even though they are just as talented as guys who play a long long time in the league.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are writing. In fact, I think we've seen a lot of that around the league. However, counting on Theriot to be an upgrade over Cedeno or Izturis is not a gamble I'd want to take given the rest of the Cubs everyday lineup.

 

If you plugged Theriot into the Angles lineup circa 2002, maybe. Or if you plug Theriot into a team with Pujols et al. maybe.

 

The 2007 Cubs cannot afford to count on Theriot to be anything more than a backup. If he's pressed into service and does well I would veiw this as an unexpected bonus given his career numbers.

[questionmarkgrace]

I already said this in another thread but why not Vizquel? The giants have already talked about shopping him in the right deal. He's old but depedable and in good shape. Doesn't have much power but he still can steal 20+ bases and hit for average and walk as much as he k's. And everyone knows about his glove.

 

What would it take to get him, an outfielder? Maybe there is a larger trade to be made with sanfran.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Trade for Hall.

[cheapseats]

Vizquel really did have a good year last year, but I can't imagine him being more than a one-year plan.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

ARod, Tejada, Hall

[cheapseats]

Trade for Hall.

 

I wouldn't be surprised for Hall's OBP to drop about ten points next year, but I'd love to have him anyway.

[Yeti]

However, counting on Theriot to be an upgrade over Cedeno or Izturis is not a gamble I'd want to take given the rest of the Cubs everyday lineup.

i'm not sure how much of a gamble it is counting on Theriot to outproduce those two...its a bet i'd make 6 days a week and twice on sunday...remember we're talking about Cedeno and Izturis

[questionmarkgrace]

With theriot's approach like murtons he will be successfull offensively. I'm not sure his arm is strong enough to play short though.

[cybercub]

My original point was, if SS is an organizational weak spot for the Cubs(which it is), would it not be a good idea to trade up if possible?

 

Miguel Tejada is probably the best SS availible in trade but at what cost? Texas would want a ton for Michael Young and the Cubs can ill afford to give up a bunch of arms without getting a starter back in return.

 

Going the FA route would be OK but, after looking at Julio Lugo's stats vs. the NL and his potential pricetag (3/4 years @ $8/9M), he seems an awful risk. BTW Lugo's career best fielding percentage at shortstop came was .969 3 years ago. He managed a .953 in 81 games at short this season.

 

IMO, Renteria provides a better bat and a more reliable glove at short. Add to that, if Jake Westbrook is really off the market, Tim Hudson would be an excellent addition to the rotation. I think if a deal could be struck for both, the Cubs would become a much stronger team.

 

My feeling is that the Cubs need a good #2 hitting shortstop and a solid starting pitcher. In this deal, they could land both.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Lugo's defense is average to above average, nothing suspect about it.

 

Yea, I remember just a couple years ago he was being called the best defensive SS in the AL.

 

Jeter's first GG was stolen from Lugo.

 

And his line in TB last year is sick for a SS. In 289 ABs he hit a very nice to see .308/.373/.498. He managed to suck in 146 ABs as the Dodgers utility guy.

 

He's not a bad player, but I don't trust Hendry on contracts.

[Rob]

We've got three better options than Izturis sitting on the bench everyday anyways... ridiculous.

 

Cedeno is a better option.

Theriot is a better option.

Alan Trammell is a better option. (it's only going to be his age 47 season)

[cheapseats]

Going the FA route would be OK but, after looking at Julio Lugo's stats vs. the NL and his potential pricetag (3/4 years @ $8/9M), he seems an awful risk. BTW Lugo's career best fielding percentage at shortstop came was .969 3 years ago. He managed a .953 in 81 games at short this season.

 

Lugo's stats vs the NL are almost meaningless. He has 3385 career at bats. Why would you only look at 146 of them? As for defense, fielding percentage is a terrible way to judge a player's defensive ability. Most metrics have Lugo as a much better defensive shortstop than Renteria, for example.

 

IMO, Renteria provides a better bat and a more reliable glove at short. Add to that, if Jake Westbrook is really off the market, Tim Hudson would be an excellent addition to the rotation. I think if a deal could be struck for both, the Cubs would become a much stronger team.

 

I think there's little question that Renteria is a better hitter, but as stated above, he's not so hot defensively. He ranks below average according to The Fielding Bible, PMR, Davenport's metric, Chris Dial's metric, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'd still love to have Renteria, but I'm not sure how you can promise that the Cubs would be a better team with Renteria and Hudson without knowing what we'd have to give up to get them.

 

My feeling is that the Cubs need a good #2 hitting shortstop and a solid starting pitcher. In this deal, they could land both.

 

The Cubs definitely need a better SS than Izturis, but why would the shortstop have to hit second? Neifi Perez hit second, and he hit like Number 2. Hehe. :oops:

[Abe Frohman]

I would like to see Theriot win a spot and prosper. He showed last season, in which he got enough time to prove he wasn't really a fluke, that his approach to hitting only got better the higher level he played.

 

Though he has zero power, Ryan Theriot is a disciplined hitter who is a tough out and knows how to get on base. The fact that he is a good baserunner (despite a couple of pretty reckless mistakes) with decent speed doesn't hurt.

 

I think the money, if a factor, should be spent elsewhere - like starting pitching and another OFer with some pop. I think Theriot would make a hell of a #2 hitter behind Soriano.

[Yeti]

I would like to see Theriot win a spot and prosper. He showed last season, in which he got enough time to prove he wasn't really a fluke, that his approach to hitting only got better the higher level he played.

 

Though he has zero power, Ryan Theriot is a disciplined hitter who is a tough out and knows how to get on base. The fact that he is a good baserunner (despite a couple of pretty reckless mistakes) with decent speed doesn't hurt.

 

I think the money, if a factor, should be spent elsewhere - like starting pitching and another OFer with some pop. I think Theriot would make a hell of a #2 hitter behind Soriano.

seconded

[Sarcastic]

I would like to see Theriot win a spot and prosper. He showed last season, in which he got enough time to prove he wasn't really a fluke, that his approach to hitting only got better the higher level he played.

 

Though he has zero power, Ryan Theriot is a disciplined hitter who is a tough out and knows how to get on base. The fact that he is a good baserunner (despite a couple of pretty reckless mistakes) with decent speed doesn't hurt.

 

I think the money, if a factor, should be spent elsewhere - like starting pitching and another OFer with some pop. I think Theriot would make a hell of a #2 hitter behind Soriano.

seconded

 

I disagree that it was enough time to prove it wasn't a fluke. Players have fluke seasons, Theriot easily could have had a fluke 150 ABs. I'd say the chances it was a fluke are much higher than the chances that that is his real skill level. He might be able to produce something, but the Cubs shouldn't count on him like they did Cedeno last year.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Sarcastic

[third eye]

I agree with giving Theriot the SS position. Just seems like Hendry is gun shy about that after what happenned with Cedeno last year. The big difference is Theriot's discipline, which seemed to be there in the minors as well. Even though Ronny hit .300 in his time in the majors in 2005, his OBP was still mediocre. Theriot has a much better chance at being a solid #2 hitter (And for the record, I am in the camp that believes that batting order does matter). As far as fielding, he has played his share of ss. I see him as somewhere between an ekstein and a freel (optimistically). I just hope he gets his chance this year. And if the 9mm it would take to get lugo were applied to starting pitching, i would much rather take that tradeoff.

[Mizzou]

I've always liked Renteria as a player. I'd be thrilled if he were our SS next year. I don't know much about the Braves though... are there any talks of him being dealt? Do they have a SS waiting in the wings?