Spending like this is only going to get us so far...

[UK1679666180]

But there's more to player development and scouting than the U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico. Talent from Latin America and the Pacific Rim could offset failed draft picks and domestic player development.

 

Exactly, look at how many players were International when the Cubs had the top farm in '02.

[UK1679666180]

Angels...

 

Salmon, Erstad, Molina, Anderson, Eckstein, Lackey, Washburn, Ortiz, etc.

 

Definitely the exception and not the rule in the last 10-15 years.

 

How many players were acq'd via trade by trading prospects on each team?

 

It's a 3 tier process on improving a club. Everyone gets giddy over a signing w/out looking as to why it is a necessity.

 

I'd rather to look as to why this team is in the position it is in and it isn't b/c of an inability to spend.

[hawkcub]

Teams like the Twins and Brewers build through there farm system because they have no other alternative. They can't afford the high dollar free agents. The Cubs have the cash to get these FA's. With a team like the Cubs many times you a going to trade your minor league assets to get quality players that can win now. The Cubs are not a team that should try to stink for 3 to 5 years so the kids can grow up. They are a big market team that can and SHOULD try to go all out to win a WS every year.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Would you like to win the world series in 2007 or in 2015? Just curious. The Cubs are taking the steps to improve the farm system now. I'd just like to know if you would rather win in 2007, 2008, or would you rather complain that we are spending too much money?

 

1. We're not even close a WS team in my mind right now.

 

2. What steps? They got Wilken, but this years draft is a very big crapshoot, even compared to the average Cub draft. Alot of risks for a farm system that has rarely coached up positional players.

 

3. I'd rather win next year, but I don't see how overpaying mediocre players helps us do that.

 

4. Any smartly run orginization with a plan can retool and be good in just a couple years.

 

The fact of the matter is the Cubs had tradeable assets and are too afraid to use them. They don't want to piss off fans because it would cost them moooneeey to piss off fans. Why would they risk that?

 

Or maybe its just the kind of person I am. I think quick fixes usually end up being long term screw ups.

 

Unfortunately I do realize I'm part of a very hungry fanbase. A fanbase that has not seen true victory in almost 98 years, and is desperate for one NOW.

 

I think our window was 3-4 years ago, we've gone downhile ever since. The farm system has deteriorated. The big league team has question marks all over the place and the plan is to fill those large holes with some nice, old, expensive, mediocre FAs.

 

Again, no direction in this franchise. Throw money at players who get people excited because we can and see the team marginally improve.

[UK1679666180]

Teams like the Twins and Brewers build through there farm system because they have no other alternative. They can't afford the high dollar free agents. The Cubs have the cash to get these FA's. With a team like the Cubs many times you a going to trade your minor league assets to get quality players that can win now. The Cubs are not a team that should try to stink for 3 to 5 years so the kids can grow up. They are a big market team that can and SHOULD try to go all out to win a WS every year.

 

 

The Cubs can do both, they can have the highest payroll and be able to spend what it takes to develop a good farm system.

 

Look at the Dodgers, they've been better than the Cubs, have a high payroll, and still able to produce a productive farm w/out high picks.

 

It's not an either/or type of situation, in the case of the Cubs it has been more of a case of neglect and moves/picks that didn't work out. The neglect comes from diminishing Latin America (until recently it appears) and nothing in the Pacific Rim (scouting professional Japanese Baseball is diff. than amateur scouting, IMO).

[Laura]

The Cubs can do both, they can have the highest payroll and be able to spend what it takes to develop a good farm system.

 

Look at the Dodgers, they've been better than the Cubs, have a high payroll, and still able to produce a productive farm w/out high picks.

 

It's not an either/or type of situation, in the case of the Cubs it has been more of a case of neglect and moves/picks that didn't work out. The neglect comes from diminishing Latin America (until recently it appears) and nothing in the Pacific Rim (scouting professional Japanese Baseball is diff. than amateur scouting, IMO).

 

Steve Wilson was recently named the Pacific Rim scout. Any word on what that means in terms of dedicating resources there?

[shnsajax]

Teams like the Twins and Brewers build through there farm system because they have no other alternative. They can't afford the high dollar free agents. The Cubs have the cash to get these FA's. With a team like the Cubs many times you a going to trade your minor league assets to get quality players that can win now. The Cubs are not a team that should try to stink for 3 to 5 years so the kids can grow up. They are a big market team that can and SHOULD try to go all out to win a WS every year.

 

 

The Cubs can do both, they can have the highest payroll and be able to spend what it takes to develop a good farm system.

 

Look at the Dodgers, they've been better than the Cubs, have a high payroll, and still able to produce a productive farm w/out high picks.

 

It's not an either/or type of situation, in the case of the Cubs it has been more of a case of neglect and moves/picks that didn't work out. The neglect comes from diminishing Latin America (until recently it appears) and nothing in the Pacific Rim (scouting professional Japanese Baseball is diff. than amateur scouting, IMO).

 

You beat me to it. I don't see how buying players now, means we can't continue to develop our farm system.

 

If nothing else it will prevent us from having to call up slightly above avg. prospects with great tools hoping to hit the lottery. This team doesn't seem to do a very good job in setting up prospects to succeed on the major league level.

[Guest]

This team doesn't seem to do a very good job in setting up prospects to succeed on the major league level.

 

hello understatement!

[shnsajax]

This team doesn't seem to do a very good job in setting up prospects to succeed on the major league level.

 

hello understatement!

 

I am a little curious to how much the past two managers played a role in this. But having a crappy team doesn't help either :-)

[chuckywang]

If Soriano is on next Cubs team that wins a World Series, it will all be money well spent.

[soapy]

Would you like to win the world series in 2007 or in 2015? Just curious. The Cubs are taking the steps to improve the farm system now. I'd just like to know if you would rather win in 2007, 2008, or would you rather complain that we are spending too much money?

 

1. We're not even close a WS team in my mind right now.

 

2. What steps? They got Wilken, but this years draft is a very big crapshoot, even compared to the average Cub draft. Alot of risks for a farm system that has rarely coached up positional players.

 

3. I'd rather win next year, but I don't see how overpaying mediocre players helps us do that.

 

4. Any smartly run orginization with a plan can retool and be good in just a couple years.

 

The fact of the matter is the Cubs had tradeable assets and are too afraid to use them. They don't want to piss off fans because it would cost them moooneeey to piss off fans. Why would they risk that?

 

Or maybe its just the kind of person I am. I think quick fixes usually end up being long term screw ups.

 

Unfortunately I do realize I'm part of a very hungry fanbase. A fanbase that has not seen true victory in almost 98 years, and is desperate for one NOW.

 

I think our window was 3-4 years ago, we've gone downhile ever since. The farm system has deteriorated. The big league team has question marks all over the place and the plan is to fill those large holes with some nice, old, expensive, mediocre FAs.

 

Again, no direction in this franchise. Throw money at players who get people excited because we can and see the team marginally improve.

 

sorry, i don't usually do this, but...

 

=D>

[hawkcub]

Teams like the Twins and Brewers build through there farm system because they have no other alternative. They can't afford the high dollar free agents. The Cubs have the cash to get these FA's. With a team like the Cubs many times you a going to trade your minor league assets to get quality players that can win now. The Cubs are not a team that should try to stink for 3 to 5 years so the kids can grow up. They are a big market team that can and SHOULD try to go all out to win a WS every year.

 

 

The Cubs can do both, they can have the highest payroll and be able to spend what it takes to develop a good farm system.

 

Look at the Dodgers, they've been better than the Cubs, have a high payroll, and still able to produce a productive farm w/out high picks.

 

It's not an either/or type of situation, in the case of the Cubs it has been more of a case of neglect and moves/picks that didn't work out. The neglect comes from diminishing Latin America (until recently it appears) and nothing in the Pacific Rim (scouting professional Japanese Baseball is diff. than amateur scouting, IMO).

 

You beat me to it. I don't see how buying players now, means we can't continue to develop our farm system.

 

If nothing else it will prevent us from having to call up slightly above avg. prospects with great tools hoping to hit the lottery. This team doesn't seem to do a very good job in setting up prospects to succeed on the major league level.

 

I never said we should not develop the farm system. In fact we should, but every player in the Farm System will not play in Wrigley 81 times a year or even have a cup of coffee in the Majors. In the Cubs organization as with other Major markets our development of players in the minors helps us more with getting proven commodities through trades. This should allow us to wait on guys the Cubs believe are the next big thing and not rush them to Chicago. While small market teams are trading away there proven commodities because they can't afford them. This principle also goes for top tier FA's.

[Soul]

Would you like to win the world series in 2007 or in 2015? Just curious. The Cubs are taking the steps to improve the farm system now. I'd just like to know if you would rather win in 2007, 2008, or would you rather complain that we are spending too much money?

 

1. We're not even close a WS team in my mind right now.

 

2. What steps? They got Wilken, but this years draft is a very big crapshoot, even compared to the average Cub draft. Alot of risks for a farm system that has rarely coached up positional players.

 

3. I'd rather win next year, but I don't see how overpaying mediocre players helps us do that.

 

4. Any smartly run orginization with a plan can retool and be good in just a couple years.

 

The fact of the matter is the Cubs had tradeable assets and are too afraid to use them. They don't want to piss off fans because it would cost them moooneeey to piss off fans. Why would they risk that?

 

Or maybe its just the kind of person I am. I think quick fixes usually end up being long term screw ups.

 

Unfortunately I do realize I'm part of a very hungry fanbase. A fanbase that has not seen true victory in almost 98 years, and is desperate for one NOW.

 

I think our window was 3-4 years ago, we've gone downhile ever since. The farm system has deteriorated. The big league team has question marks all over the place and the plan is to fill those large holes with some nice, old, expensive, mediocre FAs.

 

Again, no direction in this franchise. Throw money at players who get people excited because we can and see the team marginally improve.

 

sorry, i don't usually do this, but...

 

=D>

 

For the most part, they are good points. However, 2 things:

 

1) Soriano is not a mediocre player.

2) The DeRosa contract now looks to be right in line with the market, not overpaying as it looked earlier. So yes, he's a mediocre player but given the market, Hendry did not overpay.

 

3) WeGotWood's main thrust is that the Cubs' farm system is terrible. Correct, it is indeed bad. But this is a problem the Cubs need to focus on better, and HAVE needed to for ages. It has nothing to do with spending on free agents. Mentioning the Yankees and Red Sox only proves this point. Both of these clubs lay out way more cash than the Cubs, yet have a proper farm-club focus as well.

 

 

So the real issue here is that the Cubs don't work on their farm system enough. Agreed.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

1) Soriano is not a mediocre player.

 

Considering his salary, I'd say so. He's being paid elite money to be a good player. Right now he looks like he might be a .275/.330/.520 line, which is good but not for his paycheck.

 

2) The DeRosa contract now looks to be right in line with the market, not overpaying as it looked earlier. So yes, he's a mediocre player but given the market, Hendry did not overpay.

 

What middle infielder was signed before DeRosa? Was he similar to DeRosa? I think the Cubs SET the market for mediocre middle infielders.

 

3) WeGotWood's main thrust is that the Cubs' farm system is terrible. Correct, it is indeed bad. But this is a problem the Cubs need to focus on better, and HAVE needed to for ages. It has nothing to do with spending on free agents. Mentioning the Yankees and Red Sox only proves this point. Both of these clubs lay out way more cash than the Cubs, yet have a proper farm-club focus as well.

 

No. My problem is that this orginization has no plan. Scratch that...it's that the plan is "we have money, lets spend it." So far it's upgraded us, but not nearly enough considering what we've paid.

 

Meanwhile this FA market is crazy, but we have to spend the money "because we can" and the orginization can't (and hasn't) trusted the farm system to fill the holes.

 

Anyone notice that unless you're an ELITE talent very early the Cubs rarely pay attention to you in the farm? Elite tools specifically.

 

The orginization is just so pathetic top to bottom, but now we can cover it with money!! GREAT!! Still doesn't mean we'll be anywhere big soon, not with Hendry spending the money like he is.

 

Yes, there have been positive changes. But with Hendry at GM I don't think this orginization is going nowhere.

 

So basically its:

 

1. I hate Jim Hendry.

2. I hate that they keep him around.

3. Hendry in charge makes this orginization a reactive, not proactive one.

4. Being reactive means we have no plan.

5. That lack of plan has led to overspending on names and ignoring the farm system.

6. The team is now expensive, not too young, and not even all that good.

[WrigleyField 22]

Wasn't Hendry in charge of the minor league system when we turned it from one of the worst until it became regarded as one of the best several years ago?

 

It is smart to build from within, but in the meantime I don't see why we wouldn't try to improve by other means until we can improve our player development.

[NCCubFan]

Wasn't Hendry in charge of the minor league system when we turned it from one of the worst until it became regarded as one of the best several years ago?

Actually, one recent year it was rated THE best, not just one of the best.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Wasn't Hendry in charge of the minor league system when we turned it from one of the worst until it became regarded as one of the best several years ago?

Actually, one recent year it was rated THE best, not just one of the best.

 

2002.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Wasn't Hendry in charge of the minor league system when we turned it from one of the worst until it became regarded as one of the best several years ago?

 

Yea, he was. He was doing a decent job down there.

 

Don't forget, much of the reason the Cubs had the top farm system a few years ago are for our pitchers. Prior was the best pitching prospect (and arguably prospect) in baseball by a nice, long distance. Everyone was in love with Guzman, Jones, Hagerty, Blascko, Ryu, and all their friends. Choi was actually getting ABs somewhere and was producing. Corey was

oozing tools.

 

But besides for Choi and the pitchers, the Cubs were always infatuated with athletes.

 

It is smart to build from within, but in the meantime I don't see why we wouldn't try to improve by other means until we can improve our player development.

 

I'll tell you why:

 

8 years 136 million for a 30+ year old guy with a .280/.325/.510 line is dumb deal.

 

3 years 13 million for a 31 year old guy who just had a career year in Texas is not a good deal.

 

The Cubs have used their money irresponsibly. They threw money around because they could, they can't handle being able to spend. Even in the draft they can't help but spend poorly. Don't get me wrong, I actually like this years draft potential but that doesn't mean I like what they did. Considering the state of the farm system, the Cubs should have been stocking up on premium talent, because they can afford to. Instead they overdraft an OF. Overpay a football player with a fastball and mediocre college performance. Pay big money to Rundle and his athleticism. Draft more tall pitchers who throw hard but need help with everything else.

 

It's tough to explain but it this way...the draft could look fine in years but they took some serious risk and money into it. Why do that considering the state of the farm system? Do guys like Rundle and friends have any value to us right now? Can we expect quick value from them (performance or in a trade)? Not really.

 

If anything money should be poured into international scouting, especially since we lost Leon Lee in the Pacific Rim a whlie back. He was the guy who signed Choi and Ryu, both very highly thought of at one point. Plus, he's Derrick Lee's dad.

 

As an orginization we have money to spend, which means we can fight for the big guys. We can take risks more than orginizations and take the hit, but when money is spent so poorly theres a problem. Pretty soon we could have a nice old, expensive, mediocre at best team.

 

My problem is not the money we have to spend, its how we've been spending it.

[jaydee]

The sorioano deal isn't bad if you compare what other players are getting this offseason. Prices are high. You can't just lok at something totally out of context and judge it that way.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Guys. We set this market. The Cubs were the first team to overpay for a MIF. The Cubs were the first team to strike a deal with one of the career year or big name OFers.

 

We helped make this offseason the joke it is.

 

Sure, Soriano wanted 8 years in his deal so we gave it to him. Drew was rumored to be getting 4 at best, and is a far better player.

 

DeRosa was barely needed. He's not a bad player, but he's not a good player either. And even more annoying is that he blocks one of our better prospects (Patterson) and a young guy who could maybe have been something (Theorit).

 

The players have only so much control. At the end of the day its the owners who descides who plays and who gets paid. They write the checks. The Trib. descided to pay alot of money to a couple guys before anyone else, and now everyone on the FA market can look foward to cashing in on stupidity. We easily could have shunned Soriano and signed Drew for less years, less oney. We CHOSE to. That descision is going to affect the ENTIRE market, and it obviously has.

[CubColtPacer]

Guys. We set this market. The Cubs were the first team to overpay for a MIF. The Cubs were the first team to strike a deal with one of the career year or big name OFers.

 

We helped make this offseason the joke it is.

 

 

 

Sure, Soriano wanted 8 years in his deal so we gave it to him. Drew was rumored to be getting 4 at best, and is a far better player.

 

DeRosa was barely needed. He's not a bad player, but he's not a good player either. And even more annoying is that he blocks one of our better prospects (Patterson) and a young guy who could maybe have been something (Theorit).

 

The players have only so much control. At the end of the day its the owners who descides who plays and who gets paid. They write the checks. The Trib. descided to pay alot of money to a couple guys before anyone else, and now everyone on the FA market can look foward to cashing in on stupidity. We easily could have shunned Soriano and signed Drew for less years, less oney. We CHOSE to. That descision is going to affect the ENTIRE market, and it obviously has.

 

DeRosa does not block anybody. That's partially why they signed him instead of some other options, because if Patterson is ready there are some places in which to move DeRosa. The same thing is going on in CF where they are trying not to block Pie.

 

We may have set the market for overpaying, but other teams have taken it to a new level. For example-the Alex Gonzalez deal. These signings were made within a week of each other, and which one was the clearly worse deal?

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

DeRosa does not block anybody. That's partially why they signed him instead of some other options, because if Patterson is ready there are some places in which to move DeRosa. The same thing is going on in CF where they are trying not to block Pie.

 

He seems like a pretty expensive bench player. And where else would he have value if he doesn't play 2B and hit like he did last year?

 

We may have set the market for overpaying, but other teams have taken it to a new level. For example-the Alex Gonzalez deal. These signings were made within a week of each other, and which one was the clearly worse deal?

 

So because our terrible deal was not the worst terrible deal it makes it a good deal?

 

Thats the kind of thinking that I throw down the toilet, along with stuff like "the Cubs can afford to do it."

 

I realize I am a fan, not the man owning/funding this team. That does not mean I don't think whats been done so far is not a terrible waste of money and resources.

[CubColtPacer]

DeRosa does not block anybody. That's partially why they signed him instead of some other options, because if Patterson is ready there are some places in which to move DeRosa. The same thing is going on in CF where they are trying not to block Pie.

 

He seems like a pretty expensive bench player. And where else would he have value if he doesn't play 2B and hit like he did last year?

 

 

Well, if he hits like he did last year, he would have 4 million dollars of value at any poistion he can play. If he reverts a little bit, he can become a super utility player again, or else he could become a valuable trade chip because of his versatility.

 

We may have set the market for overpaying, but other teams have taken it to a new level. For example-the Alex Gonzalez deal. These signings were made within a week of each other, and which one was the clearly worse deal?

So because our terrible deal was not the worst terrible deal it makes it a good deal?

 

Thats the kind of thinking that I throw down the toilet, along with stuff like "the Cubs can afford to do it."

 

I realize I am a fan, not the man owning/funding this team. That does not mean I don't think whats been done so far is not a terrible waste of money and resources.

 

No, I'm not saying because it's not the worst deal. I'm saying that there's a certain point where you decide you want to upgrade the team-and it looks like there may be 2, 3 players at most that would not be classified as "overpaying" after this free agency period. One of those players has a good chance of being DeRosa-if he is an average second baseman, then he will be worth the average second baseman salary of 4 million-and to be an average second baseman, he doesn't even have to come close to what he did last year.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Well, if he hits like he did last year, he would have 4 million dollars of value at any poistion he can play. If he reverts a little bit, he can become a super utility player again, or else he could become a valuable trade chip because of his versatility.

 

While I think DeRosa will be a solid player for us, he's not going to do any of those things for us.

 

He makes too much money to be a "super utility" guy, and no team is going to consider him a great guy to trade for.

 

Meanwhile Patterson and Theorit are demoted or stay right where they are.

 

This team is sacraficing alot in the long term for the short team. Stupiditiy.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm still not understanding the direction of this rant. The fact that the Cubs farm system sucks has nothing to do with buying free agents. The best you can come up with in terms of blockage is your opinion that Derosa is going to block Patterson with no factual basis behind it. Am I enamored with the Derosa signing? Of course not. But I do like having somebody else aroudn rather than just hoping Theriot established a new level of talent(And I'm a Theriot fan.) If Patterson stays on the path he's headed, he will unseat Derosa, I'd guarantee it. This isn't Dusty Baker's Cubs anymore. Hendry had a 66 win team last year and is improving it through free agency so that the farm system won't be depleted. This rant would make a lot more sense if if it was coming after prospects were cleared out for somebody mediocre. Yes, Soriano and Derosa were overpaid, possibly severely, but when you have a 66 win team and are a looking to improve soon it's what you do.

 

As I said before, short of trading the studs for top prospects, nothing with the farm system is going to change the face of the major league team in the next 3 years.

 

Re: Spending money on Latin America guys, didn't the Cubs just shell out a lot of money on Suarez recently? It seems like a good first step to me.