Pierre to the Dodgers: 5Y/$45M

[Shilzzz]

so pierre ends up a type b free agent. what kind of compensation does that give us draft wise?

 

The Cubs get a sandwich pick between the first and second round.

 

well at least we will get something hopefully worthwhile out of that trade.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

so pierre ends up a type b free agent. what kind of compensation does that give us draft wise?

 

The Cubs get a sandwich pick between the first and second round.

 

well at least we will get something hopefully worthwhile out of that trade.

 

You mean like Chadd Blasko? Wait, you said worthwhile...

[Banedon]

Keith Law of ESPN has an excellent blog entry on this....heh.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2670934&name=law_keith

 

Insider access required

 

Pierre is a slap-hitting speedster who has drawn 50 walks in a season just once in his career (2003), and whose above-average range in center is mitigated somewhat by his below-average throwing arm. His primary asset, his ability to run, is generally the first skill to decline as a player ages, and since Pierre turns 30 in August, he's headed quickly towards the edge of the cliff. On a good team, he's a bench player -- even at his current level of ability; if he can't run, he's a 4A player.

 

It's made all the worse by its combined ripple effect with the decision to re-up Nomar Garciaparra for two years, leaving just two lineup spots (left and right field) for Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp and James Loney. Ethier is the most polished of the three and has the most big-league experience but has the lowest ceiling; Kemp has by far the highest ceiling but is still somewhat raw as a player; Loney is in between but may be at a slight disadvantage because he has only appeared in 20 games in the outfield in his pro career. All three of these players are likely to outproduce Pierre right now given the same kind of playing time, and their combined salaries will barely top 10 percent of what Pierre himself will make this year. We've seen some surprisingly high deals so far this offseason, but this is the first one that's certifiable.

[VanceJergins]

Keith Law of ESPN has an excellent blog entry on this....heh.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2670934&name=law_keith

 

Insider access required

 

Pierre is a slap-hitting speedster who has drawn 50 walks in a season just once in his career (2003), and whose above-average range in center is mitigated somewhat by his below-average throwing arm. His primary asset, his ability to run, is generally the first skill to decline as a player ages, and since Pierre turns 30 in August, he's headed quickly towards the edge of the cliff. On a good team, he's a bench player -- even at his current level of ability; if he can't run, he's a 4A player.

 

It's made all the worse by its combined ripple effect with the decision to re-up Nomar Garciaparra for two years, leaving just two lineup spots (left and right field) for Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp and James Loney. Ethier is the most polished of the three and has the most big-league experience but has the lowest ceiling; Kemp has by far the highest ceiling but is still somewhat raw as a player; Loney is in between but may be at a slight disadvantage because he has only appeared in 20 games in the outfield in his pro career. All three of these players are likely to outproduce Pierre right now given the same kind of playing time, and their combined salaries will barely top 10 percent of what Pierre himself will make this year. We've seen some surprisingly high deals so far this offseason, but this is the first one that's certifiable.

 

Hopefully Hendry is feeling generous and agrees to take one off their hands.

 

But the experts at the dodgers.com message board will disagree with this analysis, comparing Pierre to a young Kenny Lofton. Sure, at Pierre's age Lofton was putting up an OBP in the .400's and SLG in the upper .400's, but Pierre gets almost as many stolen bases. And as the following quote from poster bjinla points out, Pierre's game is more than meaningless stats like OPS:

 

Why do you guys always quote meaningless stats? That's a bunch of Depodesta nonsense. The guy's a winner. He's a great clubhouse presence and coupled with the talent the Dodgers already have he's going to make a big impact on the team. He set the table for the 2003 Marlins -- he's an experienced winning ballplayer with a lot of heart. A guy who has played in all his team's games for the past four years. You can't punch heart and character into a stat sheet. It's those intangibles that help you win games.

 

Do you want to start the slow clap or should I?

[Outshined_One]

But the experts at the dodgers.com message board will disagree with this analysis, comparing Pierre to a young Kenny Lofton.

 

Okay, THAT made me laugh.

[AllStarMe]

But the experts at the dodgers.com message board will disagree with this analysis, comparing Pierre to a young Kenny Lofton.

 

Okay, THAT made me laugh.

Yeah I just read that over there and though that comparison was worthy of posting over here. A lot of them seem pretty happy with the pickup. When one poster brought up JP horrendous OPS, it elicited this oh-so enlightened response:

 

"Why do you guys always quote meaningless stats? That's a bunch of Depodesta nonsense. The guy's a winner. He's a great clubhouse presence and coupled with the talent the Dodgers already have he's going to make a big impact on the team. He set the table for the 2003 Marlins -- he's an experienced winning ballplayer with a lot of heart. A guy who has played in all his team's games for the past four years. You can't punch heart and character into a stat sheet. It's those intangibles that help you win games."

 

Sounds exactly like what Hendry was saying about him a year ago. :twisted:

[EricG]

so pierre ends up a type b free agent. what kind of compensation does that give us draft wise?

 

The Cubs get a sandwich pick between the first and second round.

do the Cubs lose any picks for the Soriano and other signings?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

so pierre ends up a type b free agent. what kind of compensation does that give us draft wise?

 

The Cubs get a sandwich pick between the first and second round.

do the Cubs lose any picks for the Soriano and other signings?

 

We'll lose our second round pick for signing Soriano.

[Sabermetrician]

Remember when we all we thinking our top of the order last year would be Furcal-Pierre? Yeah... glad that didn't happen.

[Drew Doughty]

Remember when we all we thinking our top of the order last year would be Furcal-Pierre? Yeah... glad that didn't happen.

 

Well, I still would've liked Furcal.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Furcal would be better than Izturis.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Furcal would be better than Izturis.

 

you could put a lot of things in place of Furcal in that sentence.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Furcal would be better than Izturis.

 

you could put a lot of things in place of Furcal in that sentence.

 

What about syphilis?

[Butterscup1679666578]

Furcal would be better than Izturis.

 

you could put a lot of things in place of Furcal in that sentence.

 

What about syphilis?

 

Syphilis works.

[NorthsideAvenger]

http://www.sportsblah.com/2006_11_01_archive.html#116425157140827539

 

Absolutely GREAT read about the recent contracts given to Pierre/GMJ. Enjoy.

[abuck1220]

what has pierre done to trick so many people into thinking he's good? he's the most overrated player in baseball, by far.

 

I was in Virginia this summer and watched a number of Nationals games. I saw Alfonso Soriano strike out a lot. The good stats have been in the articles, but what about his batting average with runners in scoring position, how many times has he left runners in scoring position with two outs, how many game-winning hits does he have and how many of his home runs and doubles are with runners on base? I'm sure there are other "effectiveness" stats. I hope I'm wrong, but having watched Soriano, I'm sorry Juan Pierre is gone.-- Robert S., Sacramento, Calif.

 

 

Why did the Cubs give up on Pierre? His defense in center was irreplaceable and his abilities while leading off would have made the Cubs unstoppable with Soriano, Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez following him in the lineup.

-- Matt M., Marion, Iowa

 

i swear these people slept through 2006.

[goonys evil twin]

what has pierre done to trick so many people into thinking he's good? he's the most overrated player in baseball, by far.

 

I was in Virginia this summer and watched a number of Nationals games. I saw Alfonso Soriano strike out a lot. The good stats have been in the articles, but what about his batting average with runners in scoring position, how many times has he left runners in scoring position with two outs, how many game-winning hits does he have and how many of his home runs and doubles are with runners on base? I'm sure there are other "effectiveness" stats. I hope I'm wrong, but having watched Soriano, I'm sorry Juan Pierre is gone.-- Robert S., Sacramento, Calif.

 

 

Why did the Cubs give up on Pierre? His defense in center was irreplaceable and his abilities while leading off would have made the Cubs unstoppable with Soriano, Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez following him in the lineup.

-- Matt M., Marion, Iowa

 

i swear these people slept through 2006.

 

Facts have never been the most important thing in baseball. Myths sell.

[abuck1220]

The good stats have been in the articles, but what about his batting average with runners in scoring position, how many times has he left runners in scoring position with two outs, how many game-winning hits does he have and how many of his home runs and doubles are with runners on base?

 

you're right. the 'good' stats have all been in the paper. that stats you listed, however, don't qualify as 'good' stats.

 

my goodness.

[CubColtPacer]

what has pierre done to trick so many people into thinking he's good? he's the most overrated player in baseball, by far.

 

I was in Virginia this summer and watched a number of Nationals games. I saw Alfonso Soriano strike out a lot. The good stats have been in the articles, but what about his batting average with runners in scoring position, how many times has he left runners in scoring position with two outs, how many game-winning hits does he have and how many of his home runs and doubles are with runners on base? I'm sure there are other "effectiveness" stats. I hope I'm wrong, but having watched Soriano, I'm sorry Juan Pierre is gone.-- Robert S., Sacramento, Calif.

 

 

Why did the Cubs give up on Pierre? His defense in center was irreplaceable and his abilities while leading off would have made the Cubs unstoppable with Soriano, Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez following him in the lineup.

-- Matt M., Marion, Iowa

 

i swear these people slept through 2006.

 

Well, apparently it looks like Murton liked Pierre :D