Cubs sign Soriano

[jjgman21]

no worries on the quote issue, they are long behind us

 

I disagree, the critics (me, KC, TT, Jon, Navin, and Rob) are using all the information taht is available to make our claim. We do not propose to know everything or be able to predict what will happen in the future.

 

you may have wanted to hold onto that before KC's posts about Pie.

[nilodnayr]

Todd will be lucky to get more than a one year deal, with no position to play.

 

And the fact his numbers are even in the same ballpark as Soriano's while he'd be lucky to get a contract at all doesn't scare you?

 

It makes me angry that I'm not a GM.

 

Are you talking about Todd *Walker*???

 

.278/.356/.398 9HR 53RBI

 

Soriano: .277/.351/.560 46HR 95RBI 40+SB

 

I fail to see how they are in the same ballpark. Not at all. Soriano is also a multiple all-star and has been each year since his rookie year.

 

I don't get it. There's no comparison whatsoever. Soriano is a great player in his prime. Walker's got one foot out of the league, IMO. We can argue about the deal, but Soriano is such a quality pick up it isn't even funny.

 

The comparison was the last three years production. I don't care about allstar appearances since those are just opinions of managers/players/fans/whoever. I do agree that the fact that you could get Walker and Drew for the same $ as Soriano isn't funny at all.

[da bears]

Deep breath TT ;)

 

It was only copy/paste, had this come later in the week when boredom had fully set in though.....

 

Ha, that's where we differ. I'm bored already. I'm hoping for more Cubs moves this week to keep me occupied. ;)

 

Correctamundo. More Cubs moves, please.

[jjgman21]

Has it been established if any/how many of the 8 years are option years?

 

I don't think so.

 

for new comers to the thread, I don't think any details have been released. heck, I don't know that any official sources have even confirmed the deal yet.

[jjgman21]

Deep breath TT ;)

 

It was only copy/paste, had this come later in the week when boredom had fully set in though.....

 

Ha, that's where we differ. I'm bored already. I'm hoping for more Cubs moves this week to keep me occupied. ;)

 

Correctamundo. More Cubs moves, please.

 

its like fricken heroine.

[rjchapma]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

Ha I love it! I love the signing, but the amount of year is a little exsessive!

[nilodnayr]

no worries on the quote issue, they are long behind us

 

I disagree, the critics (me, KC, TT, Jon, Navin, and Rob) are using all the information taht is available to make our claim. We do not propose to know everything or be able to predict what will happen in the future.

 

you may have wanted to hold onto that before KC's posts about Pie.

 

Im not sure what KC used for Pie's numbers if by chance Drew did go down for 40 or how many ever games, but I'm guessing he used MLE. KC, can you expound?

[Rob]

Deep breath TT ;)

 

It was only copy/paste, had this come later in the week when boredom had fully set in though.....

 

Ha, that's where we differ. I'm bored already. I'm hoping for more Cubs moves this week to keep me occupied. ;)

 

Correctamundo. More Cubs moves, please.

 

its like fricken heroine.

 

If you don't know how to spell it, you certainly don't know how to inject it into your forehead while on somebody's doorstep.

[hardcorecubfan]

The generosity of idiots never cease to amaze me.

 

so much for a high end SP

[Mephistopheles]

yes because asking pie to post a 700 ops is impossible. And even if its in the 680 range the cubs still come on top with drew for 120 games Edited November 20, 2006 by Mephistopheles

[USSoccer]

This has been a really interesting conversation. I'm not necessarily all about declaring myself in one camp or another, but there are some positives here that the anti-Soriano camp are missing, and some negatives that bear mentioning.

 

Soriano didn't really get more patient last season. He showed an increase in BB's that was heavily influenced by IBB's. He also set a career high in K's, and while he also set one in p/PA, it wasn't like a huge increase. I have doubts that his swing will age well as he loses bat speed, and I have severe doubts about his ability to ever improve his palte discipline. Also, his contract is obviously very risky. Even 6/$90m with options is a lot of money for someone who's not even the best offensive player on your team. If he plays RF, that's the toughest OF position in Wrigley. That bears watching.

 

On the other hand, Soriano will provide one of the 2 things the Cubs offense was lacking: SLG%. He's not going to be an on-base maven, but he will slug. I would be stunned if he hit less than 35 HR's. If he puts up his career averages we're a much better offense right now than we were at any point in 2005-6. Depending on other factors, the Cub offense will improve to at least 2003 levels, and come close to 2004 levels depending on other moves. The fact that we signed him means we now have some flexibility with the tradable assets we still hold. We have 4 relievers, Jones, Izturis and some minor league players with which to deal.

 

Assuming we still are looking for a CF, Boston could move Coco Crisp for Izturis and Eyre, and I'd take that deal. I'm also assuming Hendry will also look to deal for a starter. Given the lack of quantity and quality in the FA market, Hendry seems to have done a halfway decent job of maximizing the cards in his hand. Of the 4 best offensive FA's, we retained one and brought a second in. 2/4 is not half bad.

 

I don't think this move should be judged solely on Soriano's plate discipline. Even supporters of this move should concede that it's terrible and not likely to improve. Likewise, his contract is bad, but at least for the first 3 years we should get good production from him. I'm thinking that this is an overall positive for the team, but it's not all that clear cut. Should it be clear cut for $17m per? Maybe it should be, but the Cubs are not in a position to pick and choose.

 

I'd have been happier with Drew, but am okay with this.

[HoopsCubs]

Here's what Mr. Miles wrote:

 

"When the deal is announced, it will be stunner. Soriano is expected to receive a contract of eight years and worth up to an estimated $135 million, based on how much money is deferred."

 

Notice the "up to an estimated" phrase and the infamous word "deferred."

 

It's hard to tell what the real numbers are - I'm sure Mr. Miles will give us more clarification after the physical is done, and the deal becomes official.

[jjgman21]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

what about those of us who don't like the terms but like the signing anyway?

[Rob]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

what about those of us who don't like the terms but like the signing anyway?

 

You don't exist.

[A New Era]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Soriano to Cubs, 8 years/135 million.

 

Any everybody assuming that before they post the official "guaranteed" deal.

[ConstableRabbit]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

what about those of us who don't like the terms but like the signing anyway?

 

:shock: :shock: You and I AGREE ON SOMETHING?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Soriano to Cubs, 8 years/135 million.

 

 

Holy That's a lot of [expletive] cash!

[Jazz]

Has it been established if any/how many of the 8 years are option years?

 

We'll probably know by tommorow at the press conference, but from what Kaplan and other beat writers/analysts its looking like 5 years/85M with 3 option years at 17M each, or it could be 6 years/98M with 2 options years for 19M each.

[Mephistopheles]

Im not sure what KC used for Pie's numbers if by chance Drew did go down for 40 or how many ever games, but I'm guessing he used MLE. KC, can you expound?

 

averaged his 2005 MLE EqA, 2006 MLE EqA and 2007 PECOTA projection (last years pecotas) and those figures were {.265,.244,.257} respectively, which average to .255 which was basically what we got from Pierre last season. (Actually it's higher but I didn't bother saying that)

[jjgman21]

This has been a really interesting conversation. I'm not necessarily all about declaring myself in one camp or another, but there are some positives here that the anti-Soriano camp are missing, and some negatives that bear mentioning.

 

Soriano didn't really get more patient last season. He showed an increase in BB's that was heavily influenced by IBB's. He also set a career high in K's, and while he also set one in p/PA, it wasn't like a huge increase. I have doubts that his swing will age well as he loses bat speed, and I have severe doubts about his ability to ever improve his palte discipline. Also, his contract is obviously very risky. Even 6/$90m with options is a lot of money for someone who's not even the best offensive player on your team. If he plays RF, that's the toughest OF position in Wrigley. That bears watching.

 

On the other hand, Soriano will provide one of the 2 things the Cubs offense was lacking: SLG%. He's not going to be an on-base maven, but he will slug. I would be stunned if he hit less than 35 HR's. If he puts up his career averages we're a much better offense right now than we were at any point in 2005-6. Depending on other factors, the Cub offense will improve to at least 2003 levels, and come close to 2004 levels depending on other moves. The fact that we signed him means we now have some flexibility with the tradable assets we still hold. We have 4 relievers, Jones, Izturis and some minor league players with which to deal.

 

Assuming we still are looking for a CF, Boston could move Coco Crisp for Izturis and Eyre, and I'd take that deal. I'm also assuming Hendry will also look to deal for a starter. Given the lack of quantity and quality in the FA market, Hendry seems to have done a halfway decent job of maximizing the cards in his hand. Of the 4 best offensive FA's, we retained one and brought a second in. 2/4 is not half bad.

 

I don't think this move should be judged solely on Soriano's plate discipline. Even supporters of this move should concede that it's terrible and not likely to improve. Likewise, his contract is bad, but at least for the first 3 years we should get good production from him. I'm thinking that this is an overall positive for the team, but it's not all that clear cut. Should it be clear cut for $17m per? Maybe it should be, but the Cubs are not in a position to pick and choose.

 

I'd have been happier with Drew, but am okay with this.

 

outstanding post.

[CuseCubFan69]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

what about those of us who don't like the terms but like the signing anyway?

 

:shock: :shock: You and I AGREE ON SOMETHING?

 

Dogs cats...living together!

[UK1679666180]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

what about those of us who don't like the terms but like the signing anyway?

 

Throw me into that catagory as well.

[jjgman21]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

what about those of us who don't like the terms but like the signing anyway?

 

:shock: :shock: You and I AGREE ON SOMETHING?

 

we've agreed on a few other things. it just took me weeks to convince you I was right. :lol:

[ConstableRabbit]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

what about those of us who don't like the terms but like the signing anyway?

 

:shock: :shock: You and I AGREE ON SOMETHING?

 

we've agreed on a few other things. it just took me weeks to convince you I was right. :lol:

 

Nah, I was just tired of you PMing me...

[Soul]

Todd will be lucky to get more than a one year deal, with no position to play.

 

And the fact his numbers are even in the same ballpark as Soriano's while he'd be lucky to get a contract at all doesn't scare you?

 

It makes me angry that I'm not a GM.

 

Are you talking about Todd *Walker*???

 

.278/.356/.398 9HR 53RBI

 

Soriano: .277/.351/.560 46HR 95RBI 40+SB

 

I fail to see how they are in the same ballpark. Not at all. Soriano is also a multiple all-star and has been each year since his rookie year.

 

I don't get it. There's no comparison whatsoever. Soriano is a great player in his prime. Walker's got one foot out of the league, IMO. We can argue about the deal, but Soriano is such a quality pick up it isn't even funny.

 

The comparison was the last three years production. I don't care about allstar appearances since those are just opinions of managers/players/fans/whoever. I do agree that the fact that you could get Walker and Drew for the same $ as Soriano isn't funny at all.

 

all star appearances do reflect opinions. but opinions are formed, more often than not, because the player is actually getting the job done. they matter to me......slightly.

 

i'm more concerned that someone would think that walker and soriano are in any way comparable players. throw Drew in there and i suppose it becomes a different argument. i like Drew but i don't think it's clear whether a deal for him would even be a possibility, so i think that's playing the game with some cards that might not be in the deck.