WOW- Vernon Wells

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Trade Jock, trade for Wells or sign Drew for CF and we're set.

 

Soriano

Murton

Lee

ARam

Wells/Drew

Barrett

DeRosa

Theriot

Pitcher

 

I would LOVE that lineup.

 

Drew is not coming to the Cubs via Bruce Miles. I'll take his word for it.

 

I'd love Wells. But any deal involving him starts with Barrett, and probably with Pie/Veal.

I would do it.

 

What's better, Jacque/Barrett, or Blanco/Wells?

 

Jacque/Barrett with The Don a year or two away by far.

[da bears]

I'd rather have Carl Crawford, but that'd never happen. Anyways, I'm very interested to see what Hendry has up his sleeve.

[Magnetic Curses]

i'm not a huge wells fan. he'll have to improve his isod before he'd be worth any kind of package.

 

Bush League Stat.

 

no it's not. it loses alot of meaning if the player consistently puts up an astronomical batting average, but it's not a bush league stat for most players in baseball.

 

So isod has no value to it. If you can't use it for everyplayer, then why use it at all.

 

what the hell are you talking about?

 

Im not a big stat guy like you guys seem to be. Some of these stats are a waste of time in my opinion. BTW, isod means International Society of Orbital Disorder. :lol: :lol:

 

i'm sorry, i didn't understand what you were trying to say. go on appreciating baseball, just don't ever assert that you understand it.

 

Relax.

 

????

 

Just because I dont use the International Society of Orbital Disorder stat doesn't mean I don't understand baseball. :roll:

 

no, but i've seen enough of your posts to make that assumption.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Vernon Wells could be moved at any time according to the Toronto Star. He's also been removed from promotions involving tickets for next season.

 

Link.

 

On the other hand, the departure of Vernon Wells, which now sounds sooner rather than later, won't make anyone reflect fondly on this time of runaway inflation. Wells, who has been omitted from the team's 2007 ticket advertisements — news to me, Ricciardi called it — has become too pricey for the Jays. His greatest value in a trade comes now; in a year they'll lose him for nothing.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Vernon Wells could be moved at any time according to the Toronto Star. He's also been removed from promotions involving tickets for next season.

 

Link.

 

On the other hand, the departure of Vernon Wells, which now sounds sooner rather than later, won't make anyone reflect fondly on this time of runaway inflation. Wells, who has been omitted from the team's 2007 ticket advertisements — news to me, Ricciardi called it — has become too pricey for the Jays. His greatest value in a trade comes now; in a year they'll lose him for nothing.

 

The problem with Wells is that he's had only one great season, and he's an impending free agent. How can you give up serious talent for a one-year rental? If he's great again in 07, he'll be the top FA outfielder on the market, after seeing what guys like GMJ and Lucky Pierre are pulling in, not to mention Soriano, no WAY he signs an extension this winter.

 

Toronto is screwed here, but some team will overpay in prospects for the one-year rental, and after Pierre, I don't think Hendry is that man. I look for Wells to end up either in Philly or on the South Side.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I agree that Wells would not be my first choice. I was just posting the information.

 

If I'm renting another CF, I'd much rather take a run at Andruw Jones.

[Abe Frohman]

I agree that Wells would not be my first choice. I was just posting the information.

 

If I'm renting another CF, I'd much rather take a run at Andruw Jones.

 

I don't know, man. Three straight Gold Gloves in CF and a solid bat in which you could pretty much count on 100 runs, 30 HR and 80+ RBI in this Cub lineup - not to mention his whole career ahead of him. He'd probably come cheaper than Andruw Jones too.

 

With the instability in positions the Cubs have (Soriano, SS, 2B) in key defensive positions, Vernon Wells would greatly improve this team for years to come.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I agree that Wells would not be my first choice. I was just posting the information.

 

If I'm renting another CF, I'd much rather take a run at Andruw Jones.

 

I don't know, man. Three straight Gold Gloves in CF and a solid bat in which you could pretty much count on 100 runs, 30 HR and 80+ RBI in this Cub lineup - not to mention his whole career ahead of him. He'd probably come cheaper than Andruw Jones too.

 

With the instability in positions the Cubs have (Soriano, SS, 2B) in key defensive positions, Vernon Wells would greatly improve this team for years to come.

 

Wells is only slightly younger than Jones. Both are FA after 2007, so whichever is acquired, it would still be a rental.

 

Jones has a much better bat than Wells. Wells career year is similar to Jones' standard year.

[BWcubs21]

I agree that Wells would not be my first choice. I was just posting the information.

 

If I'm renting another CF, I'd much rather take a run at Andruw Jones.

 

I don't know, man. Three straight Gold Gloves in CF and a solid bat in which you could pretty much count on 100 runs, 30 HR and 80+ RBI in this Cub lineup - not to mention his whole career ahead of him. He'd probably come cheaper than Andruw Jones too.

 

With the instability in positions the Cubs have (Soriano, SS, 2B) in key defensive positions, Vernon Wells would greatly improve this team for years to come.

 

I would welcome either of those guys to this team with open arms, but considering what the cost will be to get that done I would much rather just put JJ in CF. BTW why is Soriano unstable defensively?

[Derwood]

Vernon Wells would greatly improve this team for years to come.

 

assuming you can extend him, which is in no way guaranteed if he thinks he can make $13 per in free agency

[tkenm356]

 

Wells is only slightly younger than Jones. Both are FA after 2007, so whichever is acquired, it would still be a rental.

 

Jones has a much better bat than Wells. Wells career year is similar to Jones' standard year.

 

Yes, but Jones was cut from a different mold than Wells, he was great from the very beginning, when he was 21, and he didn't truly unleash his power potential until 2005, the year he turned 28, the start of his prime years.

 

Wells had an outstanding year last year, and stole more bases than he's ever stole in a single season, and he will be 28 next year. It's not out of line to think that Wells has 40HR and 20SB potential in him (Jones lost his SB ability years ago). Plus, Wells is a career .280 hitter with RISP, Jones .256, not to mention a career .288 hitter period, while Jones is a career .267 hitter

 

I'm not saying Jones is or isn't better, what I'm trying to get at is they're both very similar in regards to talent. Both are young and entering/in their prime, both are big power threats, perenial gold glovers. Wells, in my opinion, is the better hitter. He has more potential to hit .300 each year than Andruw Jones does hitting .280.

 

As far as trading for Wells, I don't think it can be done, especially after they resigned Greg Zaun. Had they let Zaun go, they would've needed a catcher, and they never had a set SS last year, and their bullpen was atrocious. Only way to get Wells from them probably would've been Barrett, Izturis, Eyre/Howry, and Pie. That'd be too much for me

[Abe Frohman]

Vernon Wells would greatly improve this team for years to come.

 

assuming you can extend him, which is in no way guaranteed if he thinks he can make $13 per in free agency

 

That is a very important point. I am thinking that if Hendry were to acquire him, it would be contingent on him signing an extension - which is probably pretty unlikely. BUT, Hendry does want to WIN NOW, so who's to say he wouldn't do something out of the norm (like a 8 year contract).

 

Realisticly, with Pie in the wings - I wouldn't be surprised if the OF is set, or if Hendry goes for Kenny Lofton should he trade J. Jones. I just keep thinking about the statement that this is not the team that will be on the field come opening day.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

Wells is only slightly younger than Jones. Both are FA after 2007, so whichever is acquired, it would still be a rental.

 

Jones has a much better bat than Wells. Wells career year is similar to Jones' standard year.

 

Yes, but Jones was cut from a different mold than Wells, he was great from the very beginning, when he was 21, and he didn't truly unleash his power potential until 2005, the year he turned 28, the start of his prime years.

 

Wells had an outstanding year last year, and stole more bases than he's ever stole in a single season, and he will be 28 next year. It's not out of line to think that Wells has 40HR and 20SB potential in him (Jones lost his SB ability years ago). Plus, Wells is a career .280 hitter with RISP, Jones .256, not to mention a career .288 hitter period, while Jones is a career .267 hitter

 

I'm not saying Jones is or isn't better, what I'm trying to get at is they're both very similar in regards to talent. Both are young and entering/in their prime, both are big power threats, perenial gold glovers. Wells, in my opinion, is the better hitter. He has more potential to hit .300 each year than Andruw Jones does hitting .280.

 

As far as trading for Wells, I don't think it can be done, especially after they resigned Greg Zaun. Had they let Zaun go, they would've needed a catcher, and they never had a set SS last year, and their bullpen was atrocious. Only way to get Wells from them probably would've been Barrett, Izturis, Eyre/Howry, and Pie. That'd be too much for me

 

First of all, BA with RISP is not a predictive stat. It's far too random to use when trying to predict which player is better.

 

Secondly, let's look at each player's OPS+ from 2002-2006.

Wells: 100, 131, 103, 104, 126.

Jones: 129, 121, 113, 133, 129

 

Wells has two good years and three just average or slightly above average years. There's a lot of question whether 2006 was a break-out year for Wells or simply a spike and his true production is more along the 103-106 OPS+ level.

 

Jones has above average years in every year. Even assuming the low range for Jones, he's likely to produce an OPS+ of 113-120. His liklihood of being a better offensive run producer is much greater than Wells.

 

You mention Wells stealing 20 bases, but he's never stolen that many once in his career. His career high of 17 was last season, but that nearly doubled anything he had done previously. It points more to a career year than a trend. Furthermore, stolen bases aren't really that valuable unless you can do so at a high percentage. He has some value as a base stealer, but not enough to make up for the lesser production elsewhere.

 

Jones also brings much more power than Wells. Wells has topped the 500 SLG mark four of the last five years while Wells has only topped it twice.

 

Jones also gets on base better than Wells. Jones has topped the 340 OBP in four of the last six years, while Wells has only done it twice.

 

When looking at the numbers, Jones is consistently a good to very good hitter. Wells has had two good seasons while being league average in the other three. They may both be great hitters going forward, and Wells may out produce Jones, but the safer bet is Jones.

[goonys evil twin]

Realisticly, with Pie in the wings - I wouldn't be surprised if the OF is set, or if Hendry goes for Kenny Lofton should he trade J. Jones. I just keep thinking about the statement that this is not the team that will be on the field come opening day.

 

The current team better not be. The offense is a little better, but nothing special, and the pitching still stinks. He needs a couple more pitchers and a bat.

[Abe Frohman]

You are right, Vance. Although is Atlanta shopping Jones like Toronto is?

[CP_414]

 

Wells is only slightly younger than Jones. Both are FA after 2007, so whichever is acquired, it would still be a rental.

 

Jones has a much better bat than Wells. Wells career year is similar to Jones' standard year.

 

Yes, but Jones was cut from a different mold than Wells, he was great from the very beginning, when he was 21, and he didn't truly unleash his power potential until 2005, the year he turned 28, the start of his prime years.

 

Wells had an outstanding year last year, and stole more bases than he's ever stole in a single season, and he will be 28 next year. It's not out of line to think that Wells has 40HR and 20SB potential in him (Jones lost his SB ability years ago). Plus, Wells is a career .280 hitter with RISP, Jones .256, not to mention a career .288 hitter period, while Jones is a career .267 hitter

 

I'm not saying Jones is or isn't better, what I'm trying to get at is they're both very similar in regards to talent. Both are young and entering/in their prime, both are big power threats, perenial gold glovers. Wells, in my opinion, is the better hitter. He has more potential to hit .300 each year than Andruw Jones does hitting .280.

 

As far as trading for Wells, I don't think it can be done, especially after they resigned Greg Zaun. Had they let Zaun go, they would've needed a catcher, and they never had a set SS last year, and their bullpen was atrocious. Only way to get Wells from them probably would've been Barrett, Izturis, Eyre/Howry, and Pie. That'd be too much for me

 

First of all, BA with RISP is not a predictive stat. It's far too random to use when trying to predict which player is better.

 

Secondly, let's look at each player's OPS+ from 2002-2006.

Wells: 100, 131, 103, 104, 126.

Jones: 129, 121, 113, 133, 129

 

Wells has two good years and three just average or slightly above average years. There's a lot of question whether 2006 was a break-out year for Wells or simply a spike and his true production is more along the 103-106 OPS+ level.

 

Jones has above average years in every year. Even assuming the low range for Jones, he's likely to produce an OPS+ of 113-120. His liklihood of being a better offensive run producer is much greater than Wells.

 

You mention Wells stealing 20 bases, but he's never stolen that many once in his career. His career high of 17 was last season, but that nearly doubled anything he had done previously. It points more to a career year than a trend. Furthermore, stolen bases aren't really that valuable unless you can do so at a high percentage. He has some value as a base stealer, but not enough to make up for the lesser production elsewhere.

 

Jones also brings much more power than Wells. Wells has topped the 500 SLG mark four of the last five years while Wells has only topped it twice.

 

Jones also gets on base better than Wells. Jones has topped the 340 OBP in four of the last six years, while Wells has only done it twice.

 

When looking at the numbers, Jones is consistently a good to very good hitter. Wells has had two good seasons while being league average in the other three. They may both be great hitters going forward, and Wells may out produce Jones, but the safer bet is Jones.

 

Agreed, and all things equal I would much rather have Andruw than Wells, but do yout hink Hendry is looking at OPS+ or BA with RISP? I'm thinking Hendry values BA with RISP more.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

You are right, Vance. Although is Atlanta shopping Jones like Toronto is?

 

Atlanta would have as much reason to move Jones as Toronto would Wells. It's unlikely that either sign an extension, so both are likley to leave after the 2007 season. Both teams at least want to give the impression of contending, so they will need bonafide talent back in return.

 

I think Atlanta would prefer to move Hudson instead of Jones. They may not be shopping him at all, but how much is Toronto really shopping Wells?

 

Jones has 10-5 rights, so he could veto any trade. Wells doesn't have that.

 

I'm not opposed to Wells. I just believe that if both are available at a near equal price, Jones is the best target.

[Abe Frohman]

You are right, Vance. Although is Atlanta shopping Jones like Toronto is?

 

Atlanta would have as much reason to move Jones as Toronto would Wells. It's unlikely that either sign an extension, so both are likley to leave after the 2007 season. Both teams at least want to give the impression of contending, so they will need bonafide talent back in return.

 

I think Atlanta would prefer to move Hudson instead of Jones. They may not be shopping him at all, but how much is Toronto really shopping Wells?

 

Jones has 10-5 rights, so he could veto any trade. Wells doesn't have that.

 

I'm not opposed to Wells. I just believe that if both are available at a near equal price, Jones is the best target.

 

I really can't disagree with you there. I don't think we could lose either way.

[tkenm356]

You mention Wells stealing 20 bases, but he's never stolen that many once in his career. His career high of 17 was last season, but that nearly doubled anything he had done previously.

 

Actually I said Wells has 20SB potential, I never said he stole 20SB.

 

Jones also brings much more power than Wells. Wells has topped the 500 SLG mark four of the last five years while Wells has only topped it twice.

 

Well yeah, that's a no-brainer. I wasn't suggesting Wells is a better power hitter than Jones. I'd have to be on crack to think that.

 

When looking at the numbers, Jones is consistently a good to very good hitter. Wells has had two good seasons while being league average in the other three. They may both be great hitters going forward, and Wells may out produce Jones, but the safer bet is Jones.

 

Wells has also been in the majors for 5 less years. Jones is a seasoned veteran who has been playing a lot longer than Wells has. Despite Wells being a year and a half or so younger, Wells obviously is a lesser player all around than Jones. Jones was hitting his 30HR 100RBI stride before he turned 24. There's only a handful of players to be able to do that (Miguel Cabrera comes to mind). Wells may fit the more prototypical major leaguer who won't hit is stride until he reaches his 28 year old prime, which may be next year. I was simply suggesting that if that were the case, then I think Wells could have potential for 40HR and 20SB, and that since he's already arrived as a perenial gold glover that he may not be much different than Jones in the long run.

[CubbieSouthpaw]

Barrett is more valuable at C than Vernon is at CF. Besides, there's still a chance the Cubs can sign Drew and we wouldn't have to give up Barrett.

 

I agree.

I'm a Wells fan. (At least from a fantasy standpoint.) One thing I do like of the proposed trade is another catching prospect in the Cubs system. They seem to be few and far between. Maybe the Cubs feel its not as important to work in that area.

[Guest]

Wells has two good years and three just average or slightly above average years. There's a lot of question whether 2006 was a break-out year for Wells or simply a spike and his true production is more along the 103-106 OPS+ level.

 

The line drive and BABIP data suggest 2003 and 2006 are more the norms than 2004 and 2005. I don't think its at all far-fetched that Wells outproduces Jones for the next four years. I think when Pie arrives Wells could be moved to a corner as he isn't that great a CF anyway.

[Abe Frohman]

Wells has two good years and three just average or slightly above average years. There's a lot of question whether 2006 was a break-out year for Wells or simply a spike and his true production is more along the 103-106 OPS+ level.

 

The line drive and BABIP data suggest 2003 and 2006 are more the norms than 2004 and 2005. I don't think its at all far-fetched that Wells outproduces Jones for the next four years. I think when Pie arrives Wells could be moved to a corner as he isn't that great a CF anyway.

 

Do you really think that Wells is not a great CFer? Three straight Gold Gloves say otherwise. I don't watch him play much, but 3 straight says a lot.

[Rob]

Palmeiro got the gold glove in 99.

 

He had only played 28 games at first that season.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Well, if we're using gold gloves as the standard, Andruw beats Wells there also. Jones has won the gold glove every year since 1998.

[Guest]

Well, if we're using gold gloves as the standard, Andruw beats Wells there also. Jones has won the gold glove every year since 1998.

 

Andruw was the best CF in the game by far. was.