Bruce: Cubs to make hard push for Soriano soon

[Wheelimus]

If payroll is damn near unlimited, just trade off Dempster, let Wuertz, Howry, etc., battle it out for closer at the start of the season, and then sign Eric Gagne to a rehab deal, send him down to Iowa, and tell him to call us when he's ready.

[Bluescale]

i've been advoacting the trade of jones, dempster, and marmol for freddy garcia for a while. westbrook would do, but we need to trade for a pitcher.

 

if we could get rid of jones, sign soriano and put drew in center and soriano in right, i'd be happy. the ability to include dempster in any deal for a starter would probably be necessary, though.

 

I don't have a problem including Dempster in a deal.

 

Would it really be that hard to replace him as closer? We got Dempster off the trash heap and made him a closer. Not all that hard to do something similar again. Certainly if it means acquiring an innings-eating SP----I'd trade him.

 

Wood.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

i've been advoacting the trade of jones, dempster, and marmol for freddy garcia for a while. westbrook would do, but we need to trade for a pitcher.

 

if we could get rid of jones, sign soriano and put drew in center and soriano in right, i'd be happy. the ability to include dempster in any deal for a starter would probably be necessary, though.

 

I don't have a problem including Dempster in a deal.

 

Would it really be that hard to replace him as closer? We got Dempster off the trash heap and made him a closer. Not all that hard to do something similar again. Certainly if it means acquiring an innings-eating SP----I'd trade him.

 

Wood.

 

Or Howry or Wuertz.

[Magnetic Curses]

i've been advoacting the trade of jones, dempster, and marmol for freddy garcia for a while. westbrook would do, but we need to trade for a pitcher.

 

if we could get rid of jones, sign soriano and put drew in center and soriano in right, i'd be happy. the ability to include dempster in any deal for a starter would probably be necessary, though.

 

I don't have a problem including Dempster in a deal.

 

Would it really be that hard to replace him as closer? We got Dempster off the trash heap and made him a closer. Not all that hard to do something similar again. Certainly if it means acquiring an innings-eating SP----I'd trade him.

 

Wood.

 

Or Howry or Wuertz.

 

any of them would do, but i'd like to see wood in that role. he was near-unhittable out of the bullpen in 05--with a bad shoulder.

[cjbucks]

Shortening his name to Alf makes me shudder, and I think it can only mean bad things will come of him if we end up signing him. Can we shorten it to something better, like the Fonz?

 

I always thought his nickname was Fonzie.

 

No that dude is Arthur Fonzerelli on Happy Days 8)

[johnnyba99]

 

The improvement this year isn't because he got more comfortable in leadoff. It's because his approach was better.

 

 

Maybe pitchers weren't even tempting him in 2006 due to the rest of the Washington lineup being so bad? Guess I'm a true cub fan who sees the most negative option first.

[Jehrico]

Link

 

Any updates Bruce?

Sorry, but am I missing something everyone else in the thread is catching? I see nothing in Bruce's article about the Cubs being on the cusp of making a hard push for Soriano. Just wondering...

[Garwilly]

Link

 

Any updates Bruce?

Sorry, but am I missing something everyone else in the thread is catching? I see nothing in Bruce's article about the Cubs being on the cusp of making a hard push for Soriano. Just wondering...

 

Despite reports the Phillies are hot after free-agent outfielder Alfonso Soriano, expect the Cubs to make a hard push soon.

 

 

??

[Jehrico]

Link

 

Any updates Bruce?

Sorry, but am I missing something everyone else in the thread is catching? I see nothing in Bruce's article about the Cubs being on the cusp of making a hard push for Soriano. Just wondering...

 

Despite reports the Phillies are hot after free-agent outfielder Alfonso Soriano, expect the Cubs to make a hard push soon.

 

 

??

Had to read the article twice...it's just a short blurb between all of the old Cubs returning in some organizational capacity and the Cotts trade. I guess I was expecting a full article about it.

[A New Era]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

Switch Murton and DeRosa.

 

And then platoon DeRosa with Jones and let Theriot play 2nd. Or move Soriano back to 2nd and sign JD Drew.

 

No, I wouldn't stop tinkering after signing Soriano. Izturis, DeRosa, and the P (other than Z) potentially give us 3 big black holes in the lineup.

 

We're in the NL. We play NL teams. You cannot count the P as a "hole". We have 2 "holes" in the line-up if you want to count Derosa. But I don't.

[A New Era]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

I don't think it's enough. There's still only 2 legit power threats in Lee & Ram in the middle of the order. I agree with the pitching that seems to be shaping up (or lack thereof), this lineup wouldn't seem to be able to lift us to many victories----though it is better than last year.

 

Side note: I've always thought Barrett would shine best in the 2 hole rather than lower in the order.

 

I agree 110% about Barrett. Bat him #2 and when he sits slit Murton in there.

 

Don't you DARE slit Murton!!

[jjgman21]

I have zero problem overpaying for Soriano as long as he hits leadoff. Anywhere else is a guarenteed letdown.

 

what difference does it make? he's either going to be productive or he's not.

 

 

the big thing about soriano's 2006 was his improved plate discipline. a low OBP is what kept his OPS down in previous seasons. i'm hoping he turned the corner discipline wise, b/c if he did, he at least has a chance at being worth all the money he's going to get.

Then how do you explain the huge difference in production when he bats anywhere else in the lineup?

 

That still doesn't explain his good numbers at leadoff in 2002 and 2003 though. In 02 and 03, he primarily batted leadoff and did well. In 04 and 05, he primarily did not bat leadoff and his numbers dropped. In 06, he returned to leadoff primarily and had a .956 OPS at leadoff, but only a .911 overall. It can never be conclusively proven that certain players play better in certain lineup spots, but Soriano has had a significantly higher OPS from the leadoff position then not in his career, and his leadoff numbers are significant better than his non-leadoff numbers in 4 out of the last 5 years (and the 1 year it wasn't was one of the 2 years where he had less then 100 AB's at leadoff). The middle of the order might be the best place to use Soriano's numbers, but it is probable that his numbers will drop batting later in the order.

 

last year Soriano's career numbers as a leadoff hitter took a monster jump because of the huge season he had. before last season, his numbers in the 5, 6, and 7 hole were about the same as his leadoff stats.

 

interestingly, the place I would like to see him hit in the above scenerio, 6th, he's had a grand total of 24 ABs at.

[Rob]

I know this is a useless exercise... but as far as lineup construction goes, I just looked at who was available as a FA this offseason plus who we've already got.

 

CF - Soriano

RF - Drew

1B - Lee

LF - Bonds

3B - Ramirez

2B - Durham

C - Barrett

SS - Lugo

P - Zambrano

 

How nice (and extremely expensive!) would that offense have been?

[CubsWin]

Lets just hope that he plays more like his .911 OPS last season, rather then his career .835 OPS, because we are going to pay a LOT.

 

Why does JH always bite on everyone's last season?

 

Hopefully, Neal Cotts last season isn't what impressed him.

 

I think it's more of a case of him biting on a player's best season, not necessarily last. He referred to Jones as a .300 hitter. He thinks of Izturis at his best. He's a glass half full kind of guy. I think it's the scout in him. He's sees the upside, but doesn't pay much regard to the likelihood of reaching the upside. He things of players at their best, and doesn't seem to factor in the notion that career years don't define a player.

We can't know for certain without asking him, of course, but I think that is a likely analysis.

 

It also may have to do with believing in his coaches. He trusts Rothschild to be able to get Cotts back on track. He felt that Jones could be turned around and he may have been right, we'll have to see if it continues. Apparently, he thinks the same about Marquis, as well.

 

Can't say that Jim never buys low anymore. I doubt Aardsma and Vasquez get Cotts last off season.

[Mephistopheles]

the big thing about soriano's 2006 was his improved plate discipline. a low OBP is what kept his OPS down in previous seasons. i'm hoping he turned the corner discipline wise, b/c if he did, he at least has a chance at being worth all the money he's going to get.

 

Half of his "improved" discipline came from him drawing additional intentional walks thanks to the crap Nat lineup. With Ramirez and Lee lurking, he won't get those.

[VanceJergins]

the big thing about soriano's 2006 was his improved plate discipline. a low OBP is what kept his OPS down in previous seasons. i'm hoping he turned the corner discipline wise, b/c if he did, he at least has a chance at being worth all the money he's going to get.

 

Half of his "improved" discipline came from him drawing additional intentional walks thanks to the crap Nat lineup. With Ramirez and Lee lurking, he won't get those.

 

Only 16 of his 67 walks were intentional. Thats still 51 non-intentional which is still 13 more than his previous career high, which was also a year he batted leadoff, and had 35 more AB's. When he was in Texas, where was usually the #5 hitter, he had 33 BB's both seasons.

 

Also, he saw 2839 pitches compared to his previous high of 2657. And this was in 13 fewer PA's.

 

So part of it was IBB's because of a weaker lineup, but I think there are some obvious signs of improved patience when he bats leadoff. I think realistic numbers we should look at for how Soriano would perform next year batting leadoff would be his Yankees numbers with a tad higher OBP. Its not ideal, but I'd certainly take it.

[uppercase_D]

Just heard on local Fox news not too long ago that the Cubs have offered Soriano 5 or 6 years at 14 million per. I dont think that gets him in this market.

[Roast]

Just heard on local Fox news not too long ago that the Cubs have offered Soriano 5 or 6 years at 14 million per. I dont think that gets him in this market.

 

Wowza, thats alot of money. 5/70 6/84. Ouch.

 

That being said; I'd do it.

[mg420]

Just heard on local Fox news not too long ago that the Cubs have offered Soriano 5 or 6 years at 14 million per. I dont think that gets him in this market.

 

good. i would much rather have 4 years of drew than 5-6 of soriano.

[Soriano12]

Just heard on local Fox news not too long ago that the Cubs have offered Soriano 5 or 6 years at 14 million per. I dont think that gets him in this market.

 

good. i would much rather have 4 years of drew than 5-6 of soriano.

 

We may get neither.

[Roast]

Just heard on local Fox news not too long ago that the Cubs have offered Soriano 5 or 6 years at 14 million per. I dont think that gets him in this market.

 

good. i would much rather have 4 years of drew than 5-6 of soriano.

 

I dont see why everyone thinks we can only have one or the other. With a $115 Million payroll, there is no reason we cant have both.

Edited November 19, 2006 by Roast

[CubColtPacer]

Just heard on local Fox news not too long ago that the Cubs have offered Soriano 5 or 6 years at 14 million per. I dont think that gets him in this market.

 

good. i would much rather have 4 years of drew than 5-6 of soriano.

 

I dont see why everyone thinks we can only have one or the other. With a $115 Million payroll, there is no reason we cant have both.

 

We can, but that would leave us only about 5 million for pitching to try to fill 2 spots.

[Brian]

Just heard on local Fox news not too long ago that the Cubs have offered Soriano 5 or 6 years at 14 million per. I dont think that gets him in this market.

 

good. i would much rather have 4 years of drew than 5-6 of soriano.

 

I dont see why everyone thinks we can only have one or the other. With a $115 Million payroll, there is no reason we cant have both.

 

1 big reason - Jim Hendry.

[Roast]

Just heard on local Fox news not too long ago that the Cubs have offered Soriano 5 or 6 years at 14 million per. I dont think that gets him in this market.

 

good. i would much rather have 4 years of drew than 5-6 of soriano.

 

I dont see why everyone thinks we can only have one or the other. With a $115 Million payroll, there is no reason we cant have both.

 

We can, but that would leave us only about 5 million for pitching to try to fill 2 spots.

 

If we got both Soriano and Drew, and added them into the lineup with guys like Ramirez and Lee, we could live with having a rotation of Z, Prior, Miller, Marshall, Marmol/whatever other minor leaguer you want.

[Shavo]

Just heard on local Fox news not too long ago that the Cubs have offered Soriano 5 or 6 years at 14 million per. I dont think that gets him in this market.

 

good. i would much rather have 4 years of drew than 5-6 of soriano.

 

I dont see why everyone thinks we can only have one or the other. With a $115 Million payroll, there is no reason we cant have both.

 

We can, but that would leave us only about 5 million for pitching to try to fill 2 spots.

 

If we got both Soriano and Drew, and added them into the lineup with guys like Ramirez and Lee, we could live with having a rotation of Z, Prior, Miller, Marshall, Marmol/whatever other minor leaguer you want.

 

No, no we couldn't.