piniella: cubs could go after 3 SP's (including marquis???)

[Danny82]

The fact that Marquis is working out for people leads me to believe he'll sign a minor league deal or something with a low base.

 

doubtful, he'll get big time guaranteed money.

 

Define "big time."

[goonys evil twin]

The fact that Marquis is working out for people leads me to believe he'll sign a minor league deal or something with a low base.

 

doubtful, he'll get big time guaranteed money.

 

Define "big time."

 

I would be shocked if he got anything less than $6-8 million guaranteed on a one year deal. And I wouldn't be surprised with a 3/27 type contract (and maybe more). It's not like he's coming off a 20 inning season. He "won" 14 games, and threw 190 innings. He's coming off 3 seasons where he's average 200 innings and 14 wins.

 

A minor league deal is out of the question. A low base isn't going to get him, unless the incentives are obscenely high and easy to achieve.

[CUBZ99]

The fact that Marquis is working out for people leads me to believe he'll sign a minor league deal or something with a low base.

 

doubtful, he'll get big time guaranteed money.

 

Define "big time."

 

I'm pretty sure he said "big time" in jest. :wink:

 

Edit: I guess he was serious. :oops:

[CUBZ99]

The fact that Marquis is working out for people leads me to believe he'll sign a minor league deal or something with a low base.

 

doubtful, he'll get big time guaranteed money.

 

Define "big time."

 

I would be shocked if he got anything less than $6-8 million guaranteed on a one year deal. And I wouldn't be surprised with a 3/27 type contract (and maybe more). It's not like he's coming off a 20 inning season. He "won" 14 games, and threw 190 innings. He's coming off 3 seasons where he's average 200 innings and 14 wins.

 

A minor league deal is out of the question. A low base isn't going to get him, unless the incentives are obscenely high and easy to achieve.

 

There is no way that Hendry would hand a pitcher with a 6+ ERA a 6MM a year deal. I realize some people have been upset with Hendry over the overpaying of Blanco, and DeRosa, but even Hendry is not that out of his mind. My guess is that he will be looking at a low base salary with lots of incentives, similar to Wade Miller's contract.

[biittner77]

Anyone notice this? I like the idea that maybe Derosa wasn't given the starting base job, but is a backup plan in case improvements can't be made.

 

Maybe they see him as a supersub but they paid him as a starting 2nd baseman. The only way he's not the main starter at 2nd is if Soriano will only sign if he can play 2nd base.

[goonys evil twin]

There is no way that Hendry would hand a pitcher with a 6+ ERA a 6MM a year deal. I realize some people have been upset with Hendry over the overpaying of Blanco, and DeRosa, but even Hendry is not that out of his mind. My guess is that he will be looking at a low base salary with lots of incentives, similar to Wade Miller's contract.

 

The problem here is you are saying he's a pitcher with a 6+ ERA, when in fact he's coming off a 6+ ERA season, but has had sub 4 ERAs on two occasions and is 4.55 for his career.

 

Baseball writers are also doing this when talking about players. You can't just say a guy is a .300/30/100 player when he's only just done it this year and has never done it before. It's deceitful to say a pitcher is a 15-game winner when he was 15-15 and had never previously won 10 games. Baseball people tend to define players with their best, or their worst numbers, or just their most recent numbers.

 

Marquis is an inconsistent pitcher who has been both good and awful. He's coming off three straight full seasons, averaging 200 innings. Prior to that he was a young guy averaging under 100 major league innings per year, with mixed results. He had a 6+ ERA last year. He was awful. But it's hard to justify defining him as a 6+ ERA guy.

 

I, for one, am concerned that it's not just a case of a guy losing his mechanics. Duncan tends to get the most out of guys, not the least. But somebody will take into account his body of work. If you told major league GM's that his next three seasons would exactly match his last 3 seasons, I'd bet he'd get 3/33 or more.

[mul21]

Living in St. Louis, I may have a little insight on this. What worries me here is the fact that Duncan has turned around so many pitchers, but the most common report down here was that Marquis just wouldn't listen to him and pitch the way he was instructed to. He's been characterized as hard-headed and difficult to work with. With that info in hand about a guy who just came off a 6+ ERA season, I'm leary of doing anything with the guy unless he signs a minor league or very low cost deal. I know LaRussa and Duncan aren't the most happy go lucky guys, but they typically don't have a lot of problems with players and they both have had enough of Marquis.

[nolanwood]

Living in St. Louis, I may have a little insight on this. What worries me here is the fact that Duncan has turned around so many pitchers, but the most common report down here was that Marquis just wouldn't listen to him and pitch the way he was instructed to. He's been characterized as hard-headed and difficult to work with. With that info in hand about a guy who just came off a 6+ ERA season, I'm leary of doing anything with the guy unless he signs a minor league or very low cost deal. I know LaRussa and Duncan aren't the most happy go lucky guys, but they typically don't have a lot of problems with players and they both have had enough of Marquis.

 

Ditto. I, too, live in Stl, and I don't want to take any chances with Marquis. If Duncan couldn't fix him, forget about it. He's stubborn, 100% unpredictable, and has a major problem keeping the ball down - which is the only way he succeeds.

[baseball7897]

Living in St. Louis, I may have a little insight on this. What worries me here is the fact that Duncan has turned around so many pitchers, but the most common report down here was that Marquis just wouldn't listen to him and pitch the way he was instructed to. He's been characterized as hard-headed and difficult to work with. With that info in hand about a guy who just came off a 6+ ERA season, I'm leary of doing anything with the guy unless he signs a minor league or very low cost deal. I know LaRussa and Duncan aren't the most happy go lucky guys, but they typically don't have a lot of problems with players and they both have had enough of Marquis.

 

Ditto. I, too, live in Stl, and I don't want to take any chances with Marquis. If Duncan couldn't fix him, forget about it. He's stubborn, 100% unpredictable, and has a major problem keeping the ball down - which is the only way he succeeds.

 

He had a hard time keeping the ball down, because he always trying to the throw the ball through the catcher.

Edited November 16, 2006 by baseball7897

[goonys evil twin]

Living in St. Louis, I may have a little insight on this. What worries me here is the fact that Duncan has turned around so many pitchers, but the most common report down here was that Marquis just wouldn't listen to him and pitch the way he was instructed to. He's been characterized as hard-headed and difficult to work with. With that info in hand about a guy who just came off a 6+ ERA season, I'm leary of doing anything with the guy unless he signs a minor league or very low cost deal. I know LaRussa and Duncan aren't the most happy go lucky guys, but they typically don't have a lot of problems with players and they both have had enough of Marquis.

 

Ditto. I, too, live in Stl, and I don't want to take any chances with Marquis. If Duncan couldn't fix him, forget about it. He's stubborn, 100% unpredictable, and has a major problem keeping the ball down - which is the only way he succeeds.

 

I don't know about the Duncan couldn't fix him tag. He was decent for two years under Duncan, better than he'd been in his career as a full-time starter.

 

I think it's a matter of them losing him, rather than not being able to fix him.

[nolanwood]

 

He had a hard time keeping the ball down, because he always trying to the throw the ball through the catcher.

 

 

Exactly!

 

If he was a "head case", I'd take my chances. However, I think his lack of success is a result of being stubborn and/or stupid. And Goony, you're right, Duncan DID turn him around for a couple years.

Edited November 16, 2006 by nolanwood

[goonys evil twin]

 

He had a hard time keeping the ball down, because he always trying to the throw the ball through the catcher.

 

 

Exactly!

 

If he was a "head case", I'd take my chances. However, I think his lack of success is a result of being stubborn and/or stupid.

 

Wouldn't be stubborn/stupid fall into the head case department?

[Wheelimus]

Plus even the best coaches will have that one player that just doesn't click with them. Maybe he was doing what he was told but the things he was told led to a 6+ ERA.

 

And there's no way he gets a big contract. Nobody is going to judge him by the wins because he played for the World Champions. Even though they were barely .500 everyone will attribute the win column to that and look at his 6+ ERA.

 

He gets 2/6, 2/8 at most.

[RynoRules]

The fact that Hendry's list does not include Zito or Schmidt does not bode well.

 

Unless he is planning to use that extra money to get two premier hitters, a la Drew and Soriano.

[nolanwood]

 

He had a hard time keeping the ball down, because he always trying to the throw the ball through the catcher.

 

 

Exactly!

 

If he was a "head case", I'd take my chances. However, I think his lack of success is a result of being stubborn and/or stupid.

 

Wouldn't be stubborn/stupid fall into the head case department?

 

Actually, when I think of a "head case", I think of lack of concentration, inabilitly to perform under pressure, a mental block, etc. If you're stubborn you refuse to listen to good advice...which coincides with stupidity.

[Backtobanks]

Living in St. Louis, I may have a little insight on this. What worries me here is the fact that Duncan has turned around so many pitchers, but the most common report down here was that Marquis just wouldn't listen to him and pitch the way he was instructed to. He's been characterized as hard-headed and difficult to work with. With that info in hand about a guy who just came off a 6+ ERA season, I'm leary of doing anything with the guy unless he signs a minor league or very low cost deal. I know LaRussa and Duncan aren't the most happy go lucky guys, but they typically don't have a lot of problems with players and they both have had enough of Marquis.

 

Ditto. I, too, live in Stl, and I don't want to take any chances with Marquis. If Duncan couldn't fix him, forget about it. He's stubborn, 100% unpredictable, and has a major problem keeping the ball down - which is the only way he succeeds.

 

I do worry that Mazzone and Duncan gave up on him. Now we'll find out whether Rothschild is worthy of his reputation.

[goonys evil twin]

And there's no way he gets a big contract. Nobody is going to judge him by the wins because he played for the World Champions. Even though they were barely .500 everyone will attribute the win column to that and look at his 6+ ERA.

 

He gets 2/6, 2/8 at most.

 

I would be willing to bet that any 2 year deal would be worth much more than that.

[CubinNY]

I've got a bad feeling about this offseason.

[David]

I've got a bad feeling about this offseason.

 

Really? I'm starting to have a really good feeling about it.

 

And it starts with the fact that we A) seem to have no interest in Zito, and B) are showing interested in Drew.

[goonys evil twin]

I've got a bad feeling about this offseason.

 

http://members.tripod.com/~badfeeling/

[XZero771679666304]

I've got a bad feeling about this offseason.

 

Really? I'm starting to have a really good feeling about it.

 

And it starts with the fact that we A) seem to have no interest in Zito, and B) are showing interested in Drew.

I agree. I like that Hendry and Pineilla seem to be changing the philosophy a bit, targeting J.D. Drew and hiring a guy like Perry to be the hitting coach.

 

I like that Hendry is working like his pants are on fire for a change. I love the payroll increase. I feel a whole lot better now than I did a couple weeks ago, that's for sure.

[CubinNY]

I've got a bad feeling about this offseason.

 

Really? I'm starting to have a really good feeling about it.

 

And it starts with the fact that we A) seem to have no interest in Zito, and B) are showing interested in Drew.

I agree. I like that Hendry and Pineilla seem to be changing the philosophy a bit, targeting J.D. Drew and hiring a guy like Perry to be the hitting coach.

 

I like that Hendry is working like his pants are on fire for a change. I love the payroll increase. I feel a whole lot better now than I did a couple weeks ago, that's for sure.

 

What evidence is there that the Cubs are targeting Drew? I haven't seen any.

[Warpticon]

I've got a bad feeling about this offseason.

 

Really? I'm starting to have a really good feeling about it.

 

And it starts with the fact that we A) seem to have no interest in Zito, and B) are showing interested in Drew.

I agree. I like that Hendry and Pineilla seem to be changing the philosophy a bit, targeting J.D. Drew and hiring a guy like Perry to be the hitting coach.

 

I like that Hendry is working like his pants are on fire for a change. I love the payroll increase. I feel a whole lot better now than I did a couple weeks ago, that's for sure.

 

What evidence is there that the Cubs are targeting Drew? I haven't seen any.

 

It's being reported all over the place that the Cubs and Red Sox are the frontrunners for Drew.

[XZero771679666304]

I've got a bad feeling about this offseason.

 

Really? I'm starting to have a really good feeling about it.

 

And it starts with the fact that we A) seem to have no interest in Zito, and B) are showing interested in Drew.

I agree. I like that Hendry and Pineilla seem to be changing the philosophy a bit, targeting J.D. Drew and hiring a guy like Perry to be the hitting coach.

 

I like that Hendry is working like his pants are on fire for a change. I love the payroll increase. I feel a whole lot better now than I did a couple weeks ago, that's for sure.

 

What evidence is there that the Cubs are targeting Drew? I haven't seen any.

:?:

 

 

Do you need Hendry to hold a press conference an announce he is targeting him? I have seen a couple reports saying the Cubs are targeting him in this forum alone.