What are the Cubs going to do about the leadoff hitter?

[goonys evil twin]

I dont know why there is so much love for Dave Roberts. To me he is the same kind of player that Juan Pierre is. I dont see Hendry offering him anymore than a 1 year deal deal with an option for the second.

 

That might be the best part about him. I don't really want Roberts. He's old, and he has serious leg issues. But he's been better than Juan Pierre during their careers. Roberts' peak years were a bit better than Pierre's, and his worst year wasn't as bad. Plus, the past two seasons, he's been significantly better. If Roberts costs $2.5m, he's a nice option to have. Aside from the lack of productivity, Pierre's biggest knock against him was the cost to acquire, as well as the cost to keep.

[RynoRules]

Ray Durham wouldn't look bad playing second and hitting lead-off.

 

I'd love to sign Durham, trade Izturis and place Theriot at SS.

 

I'll throw you one better (I think): Sign Durham, trade Izturis in a pckg for Tejada, and sign Drew:

 

Durham

Murton

Drew

Lee

ARam

Tejada

Barret

Jones

 

Me likes.

[Danny82]

Must be some "package" that you are throwing in with Izturis to acquire Tejada. You know they are going to need much more major league ready talent in return, don't you? If you had any hopes of actually fielding that lineup, the pitching staff would be decimated via trade.

 

Just not going to happen.

[jmajew]

Sign Lugo to play SS and let Theriot play 2b. You bat Lugo first and Theriot second. That si my ideal situation for the top of the order. However, since we know that won't happen I advocate still signing Lugo to play 2nd but when Izturis gets hurt again you put him at ss and then put theriot in the lineup. If you do that you will have Lugo bat first and Barret bat second. I think Murton is more valuable batting 6th.

[jtownie]

I dont know why there is so much love for Dave Roberts. To me he is the same kind of player that Juan Pierre is. I dont see Hendry offering him anymore than a 1 year deal deal with an option for the second.

 

That might be the best part about him. I don't really want Roberts. He's old, and he has serious leg issues. But he's been better than Juan Pierre during their careers. Roberts' peak years were a bit better than Pierre's, and his worst year wasn't as bad. Plus, the past two seasons, he's been significantly better. If Roberts costs $2.5m, he's a nice option to have. Aside from the lack of productivity, Pierre's biggest knock against him was the cost to acquire, as well as the cost to keep.

 

This is how I feel about Ray Durham. He's more productive but hasn't been near 162 games played since he was with the White Sox. If the Cubs decide they have to go after a "prototypical" leadoff hitter than I'd rather go with Roberts. He'll more than likely be the cheapest in terms of money and years.

[Wheelimus]

We'll see. We always tend to undervalue our own talent, being the well reasoned pessimists that we are. Who would have thought that we'd get an actual return for Neifi Perez last year?

 

I'm sure the "gold glove fielder" aspect has value, and just by including Cesar the Orioles would be able to play it as a "swap of two former all stars".

 

Obviously Cesar doesn't get it done by a mile by himself. But perhaps Cesar Izturis, Sean Marshall, and a group of prospects starts the conversation.

 

It would be great, though. Having Tejada and Durham up the middle would leave plenty of starts to keep Ryan Theriot producing. And darn it if he plays above expectations and starts a controversy at second base. Just sucks to have talent to deal :D

[Abe Frohman]

I hope that Hendry goes after Julio Lugo and lands Soriano. Many seem to feel that there is no way that Ryan Theriot can duplicate his performance of late 2006, but he did spend 1/4 of a season in Chicago - and he produced consistantly. Even if his numbers "level off," Theriot has the plate discipline to keep his OB% at a respectable enough level to where he would be a run scorer. He is an above average baserunner who would definately help this team financially and offensively.

 

I would like to see Theriot batting leadoff and playing 2B. Though Theriot can fill in at SS in a pinch, I don't think he is best suited at the position. If the "experiment" fails, you could always stick Lugo at the top and move Soriano to 2B. Izturis could always fill in if he isn't dealt.

 

2B Theriot

LF Murton

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

CF Soriano

RF Jones

CA Barrett

SS Lugo

[Soul]

I hope that Hendry goes after Julio Lugo and lands Soriano. Many seem to feel that there is no way that Ryan Theriot can duplicate his performance of late 2006, but he did spend 1/4 of a season in Chicago - and he produced consistantly. Even if his numbers "level off," Theriot has the plate discipline to keep his OB% at a respectable enough level to where he would be a run scorer. He is an above average baserunner who would definately help this team financially and offensively.

 

I would like to see Theriot batting leadoff and playing 2B. Though Theriot can fill in at SS in a pinch, I don't think he is best suited at the position. If the "experiment" fails, you could always stick Lugo at the top and move Soriano to 2B. Izturis could always fill in if he isn't dealt.

 

2B Theriot

LF Murton

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

CF Soriano

RF Jones

CA Barrett

SS Lugo

 

I'd rather Barrett hit higher than that, though. Maybe swap him & Jones. All this talk about Theriot starting smacks of Cedeno part deux. I would make him work for the job, not give it to him by default.

 

But then again, we might not really have the option since we need to fill holes in the starting rotation first (accoring to Lou, that's first on the docket).

[Abe Frohman]

I hope that Hendry goes after Julio Lugo and lands Soriano. Many seem to feel that there is no way that Ryan Theriot can duplicate his performance of late 2006, but he did spend 1/4 of a season in Chicago - and he produced consistantly. Even if his numbers "level off," Theriot has the plate discipline to keep his OB% at a respectable enough level to where he would be a run scorer. He is an above average baserunner who would definately help this team financially and offensively.

 

I would like to see Theriot batting leadoff and playing 2B. Though Theriot can fill in at SS in a pinch, I don't think he is best suited at the position. If the "experiment" fails, you could always stick Lugo at the top and move Soriano to 2B. Izturis could always fill in if he isn't dealt.

 

2B Theriot

LF Murton

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

CF Soriano

RF Jones

CA Barrett

SS Lugo

 

I'd rather Barrett hit higher than that, though. Maybe swap him & Jones. All this talk about Theriot starting smacks of Cedeno part deux. I would make him work for the job, not give it to him by default.

 

But then again, we might not really have the option since we need to fill holes in the starting rotation first (accoring to Lou, that's first on the docket).

 

I put Barrett there to keep a lefty sort of in the mix. In addition, I have more faith in Barrett with clutch situations - and the chances are that Jones hits a little better with bases empty (which is highly likely with the hitters in front of him cleaning up).

 

As far as Theriot/Cedeno - I think Theriot proved himself to a degree last season. Cedeno proved he is not ready to play at this level (at least offensively). If Theriot can win the position out of Spring Training - I'd say he earned it based on his production in 2006. What better option do they have at 2nd base anyway? Theriot is solid.

[mg420]

I hope that Hendry goes after Julio Lugo and lands Soriano. Many seem to feel that there is no way that Ryan Theriot can duplicate his performance of late 2006, but he did spend 1/4 of a season in Chicago - and he produced consistantly. Even if his numbers "level off," Theriot has the plate discipline to keep his OB% at a respectable enough level to where he would be a run scorer. He is an above average baserunner who would definately help this team financially and offensively.

 

I would like to see Theriot batting leadoff and playing 2B. Though Theriot can fill in at SS in a pinch, I don't think he is best suited at the position. If the "experiment" fails, you could always stick Lugo at the top and move Soriano to 2B. Izturis could always fill in if he isn't dealt.

 

2B Theriot

LF Murton

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

CF Soriano

RF Jones

CA Barrett

SS Lugo

 

I'd rather Barrett hit higher than that, though. Maybe swap him & Jones. All this talk about Theriot starting smacks of Cedeno part deux. I would make him work for the job, not give it to him by default.

 

But then again, we might not really have the option since we need to fill holes in the starting rotation first (accoring to Lou, that's first on the docket).

 

i dont really get the cedneo theriot comparisions. cedeno had 80 ab's in 2005 and ended up with a .731 ops. ryan had 134 ab's in 2006 and ended up with a .934 ops. theriot is 27 and has had some success in the minors hitting .304 twice and has had 3 season with obp above .360. he doesnt strike out, is above average on defense, steals bases and runs well, gets the bunt down and moves guys over. the instincts and fundamentals that theroit showed in his short time in the bigs far surpass anything i've seen from cedeno. i know it's human nature not to want to get burned again by getting our hopes too high and that ryan most likely wont see a .900+ ops in the majors but i dont think .280 with a .750 ops and 40 sb's is out of the question. that is a vast improvement over the .610 ronny put up last year.

[questionmarkgrace]

I agree that like murton theriot's approach will keep his obp up. I like his hustle and attitude. He seems to play with a chip on his shoulder and is definetely an eckstein-esque player in that respect.

 

My question is can he really handle shortstop in the majors?

[goonys evil twin]

Theriot starting smacks of Cedeno part deux. I would make him work for the job, not give it to him by default.

 

But then again, we might not really have the option since we need to fill holes in the starting rotation first (accoring to Lou, that's first on the docket).

 

i dont really get the cedneo theriot comparisions. cedeno had 80 ab's in 2005 and ended up with a .731 ops. ryan had 134 ab's in 2006 and ended up with a .934 ops. theriot is 27 and has had some success in the minors hitting .304 twice and has had 3 season with obp above .360. he doesnt strike out, is above average on defense, steals bases and runs well, gets the bunt down and moves guys over. the instincts and fundamentals that theroit showed in his short time in the bigs far surpass anything i've seen from cedeno. i know it's human nature not to want to get burned again by getting our hopes too high and that ryan most likely wont see a .900+ ops in the majors but i dont think .280 with a .750 ops and 40 sb's is out of the question. that is a vast improvement over the .610 ronny put up last year.

 

They aren't great comparisons for players. But there is a comparison for how the Cubs need to handle the situation. That is, there is nothing wrong with going with either player to start the season, but you have to build a team that can withstand them not doing anything at the plate. You don't know what Theriot will be able to do, and we didn't know what Cedeno was able to do. You can take a risk with such a cheap player, but you have to use the money saved to buy some guaranteed production elsewhere. You can't go into a season with a mediocre OF and risk getting nothing out of a middle infielder.

[Soul]

Theriot starting smacks of Cedeno part deux. I would make him work for the job, not give it to him by default.

 

But then again, we might not really have the option since we need to fill holes in the starting rotation first (accoring to Lou, that's first on the docket).

 

i dont really get the cedneo theriot comparisions. cedeno had 80 ab's in 2005 and ended up with a .731 ops. ryan had 134 ab's in 2006 and ended up with a .934 ops. theriot is 27 and has had some success in the minors hitting .304 twice and has had 3 season with obp above .360. he doesnt strike out, is above average on defense, steals bases and runs well, gets the bunt down and moves guys over. the instincts and fundamentals that theroit showed in his short time in the bigs far surpass anything i've seen from cedeno. i know it's human nature not to want to get burned again by getting our hopes too high and that ryan most likely wont see a .900+ ops in the majors but i dont think .280 with a .750 ops and 40 sb's is out of the question. that is a vast improvement over the .610 ronny put up last year.

 

They aren't great comparisons for players. But there is a comparison for how the Cubs need to handle the situation. That is, there is nothing wrong with going with either player to start the season, but you have to build a team that can withstand them not doing anything at the plate. You don't know what Theriot will be able to do, and we didn't know what Cedeno was able to do. You can take a risk with such a cheap player, but you have to use the money saved to buy some guaranteed production elsewhere. You can't go into a season with a mediocre OF and risk getting nothing out of a middle infielder.

 

I agree with that, and I know Theriot had more ABs than Cedeno, but it's still only 130-ish ABs.

 

But I also agree we just might not be able to make that choice. It might be our best option to shore up the lineup elsewhere, or get solid bench help who could come in if necessary, and then just give Theriot the shot.

[mg420]

Theriot starting smacks of Cedeno part deux. I would make him work for the job, not give it to him by default.

 

But then again, we might not really have the option since we need to fill holes in the starting rotation first (accoring to Lou, that's first on the docket).

 

i dont really get the cedneo theriot comparisions. cedeno had 80 ab's in 2005 and ended up with a .731 ops. ryan had 134 ab's in 2006 and ended up with a .934 ops. theriot is 27 and has had some success in the minors hitting .304 twice and has had 3 season with obp above .360. he doesnt strike out, is above average on defense, steals bases and runs well, gets the bunt down and moves guys over. the instincts and fundamentals that theroit showed in his short time in the bigs far surpass anything i've seen from cedeno. i know it's human nature not to want to get burned again by getting our hopes too high and that ryan most likely wont see a .900+ ops in the majors but i dont think .280 with a .750 ops and 40 sb's is out of the question. that is a vast improvement over the .610 ronny put up last year.

 

They aren't great comparisons for players. But there is a comparison for how the Cubs need to handle the situation. That is, there is nothing wrong with going with either player to start the season, but you have to build a team that can withstand them not doing anything at the plate. You don't know what Theriot will be able to do, and we didn't know what Cedeno was able to do. You can take a risk with such a cheap player, but you have to use the money saved to buy some guaranteed production elsewhere. You can't go into a season with a mediocre OF and risk getting nothing out of a middle infielder.

 

agreed. the cubs seem to be more interested in improving the OF with guys like soriano, drew & roberts so that the questionable middle IF wont be as much of an issue. i even think that keeping jones wouldn't be a bad option if lou platoon's him. if theriot can handle ss (and i dont see any reason he could not having played 189 games there in the minors) i think the big question is what to d owith 2b. epat's bat is ready imo but his d is a big question. if they can sign a guy like frank catalenatto, they can use him as a stop gap unti lthey decide what to do with ep.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Give Durham 2/17. 7 in '07, 8 in '08, and a 8 mil team option w/ 2 mil buyout in '09.

 

Durham

Murton

Drew/Lee/Ramirez

Drew/Lee/Ramirez

Drew/Lee/Ramirez

Barrett

Pie

Izturis/Theriot

[YearofDaCubs]

Theriot starting smacks of Cedeno part deux. I would make him work for the job, not give it to him by default.

 

But then again, we might not really have the option since we need to fill holes in the starting rotation first (accoring to Lou, that's first on the docket).

 

i dont really get the cedneo theriot comparisions. cedeno had 80 ab's in 2005 and ended up with a .731 ops. ryan had 134 ab's in 2006 and ended up with a .934 ops. theriot is 27 and has had some success in the minors hitting .304 twice and has had 3 season with obp above .360. he doesnt strike out, is above average on defense, steals bases and runs well, gets the bunt down and moves guys over. the instincts and fundamentals that theroit showed in his short time in the bigs far surpass anything i've seen from cedeno. i know it's human nature not to want to get burned again by getting our hopes too high and that ryan most likely wont see a .900+ ops in the majors but i dont think .280 with a .750 ops and 40 sb's is out of the question. that is a vast improvement over the .610 ronny put up last year.

 

They aren't great comparisons for players. But there is a comparison for how the Cubs need to handle the situation. That is, there is nothing wrong with going with either player to start the season, but you have to build a team that can withstand them not doing anything at the plate. You don't know what Theriot will be able to do, and we didn't know what Cedeno was able to do. You can take a risk with such a cheap player, but you have to use the money saved to buy some guaranteed production elsewhere. You can't go into a season with a mediocre OF and risk getting nothing out of a middle infielder.

 

I agree with that, and I know Theriot had more ABs than Cedeno, but it's still only 130-ish ABs.

 

But I also agree we just might not be able to make that choice. It might be our best option to shore up the lineup elsewhere, or get solid bench help who could come in if necessary, and then just give Theriot the shot.

I have no problems letting Cedeno and Theriot compete for a starting role if it means we end up with Drew or another difference maker. I also really would hate to see Izturis in a starting role with this team. To me, he is useless and should be traded.

[mg420]

Theriot starting smacks of Cedeno part deux. I would make him work for the job, not give it to him by default.

 

But then again, we might not really have the option since we need to fill holes in the starting rotation first (accoring to Lou, that's first on the docket).

 

i dont really get the cedneo theriot comparisions. cedeno had 80 ab's in 2005 and ended up with a .731 ops. ryan had 134 ab's in 2006 and ended up with a .934 ops. theriot is 27 and has had some success in the minors hitting .304 twice and has had 3 season with obp above .360. he doesnt strike out, is above average on defense, steals bases and runs well, gets the bunt down and moves guys over. the instincts and fundamentals that theroit showed in his short time in the bigs far surpass anything i've seen from cedeno. i know it's human nature not to want to get burned again by getting our hopes too high and that ryan most likely wont see a .900+ ops in the majors but i dont think .280 with a .750 ops and 40 sb's is out of the question. that is a vast improvement over the .610 ronny put up last year.

 

They aren't great comparisons for players. But there is a comparison for how the Cubs need to handle the situation. That is, there is nothing wrong with going with either player to start the season, but you have to build a team that can withstand them not doing anything at the plate. You don't know what Theriot will be able to do, and we didn't know what Cedeno was able to do. You can take a risk with such a cheap player, but you have to use the money saved to buy some guaranteed production elsewhere. You can't go into a season with a mediocre OF and risk getting nothing out of a middle infielder.

 

I agree with that, and I know Theriot had more ABs than Cedeno, but it's still only 130-ish ABs.

 

But I also agree we just might not be able to make that choice. It might be our best option to shore up the lineup elsewhere, or get solid bench help who could come in if necessary, and then just give Theriot the shot.

I have no problems letting Cedeno and Theriot compete for a starting role if it means we end up with Drew or another difference maker. I also really would hate to see Izturis in a starting role with this team. To me, he is useless and should be traded.

 

my guess is that ronny gets traded or sent back to iowa. his pathetic .184 ba in winter ball hasnt done much to increase his chances imo.

[YearofDaCubs]

Theriot starting smacks of Cedeno part deux. I would make him work for the job, not give it to him by default.

 

But then again, we might not really have the option since we need to fill holes in the starting rotation first (accoring to Lou, that's first on the docket).

 

i dont really get the cedneo theriot comparisions. cedeno had 80 ab's in 2005 and ended up with a .731 ops. ryan had 134 ab's in 2006 and ended up with a .934 ops. theriot is 27 and has had some success in the minors hitting .304 twice and has had 3 season with obp above .360. he doesnt strike out, is above average on defense, steals bases and runs well, gets the bunt down and moves guys over. the instincts and fundamentals that theroit showed in his short time in the bigs far surpass anything i've seen from cedeno. i know it's human nature not to want to get burned again by getting our hopes too high and that ryan most likely wont see a .900+ ops in the majors but i dont think .280 with a .750 ops and 40 sb's is out of the question. that is a vast improvement over the .610 ronny put up last year.

 

They aren't great comparisons for players. But there is a comparison for how the Cubs need to handle the situation. That is, there is nothing wrong with going with either player to start the season, but you have to build a team that can withstand them not doing anything at the plate. You don't know what Theriot will be able to do, and we didn't know what Cedeno was able to do. You can take a risk with such a cheap player, but you have to use the money saved to buy some guaranteed production elsewhere. You can't go into a season with a mediocre OF and risk getting nothing out of a middle infielder.

 

I agree with that, and I know Theriot had more ABs than Cedeno, but it's still only 130-ish ABs.

 

But I also agree we just might not be able to make that choice. It might be our best option to shore up the lineup elsewhere, or get solid bench help who could come in if necessary, and then just give Theriot the shot.

I have no problems letting Cedeno and Theriot compete for a starting role if it means we end up with Drew or another difference maker. I also really would hate to see Izturis in a starting role with this team. To me, he is useless and should be traded.

 

my guess is that ronny gets traded or sent back to iowa. his pathetic .184 ba in winter ball hasnt done much to increase his chances imo.

Wow, I didn't even know he was doing that bad.

[A New Era]

If it allows us to spend more money on pitching, AND we have atleast one of Drew, Soriano +1 of Durham, Lugo. Then let Theroit play SS if he earns it in ST. Otherwise you obviously use him as a bench. Since Izturis will likely miss some games and so would Lugo or another older "stopgap 2B".

 

We deffinatly are covered at SS and 2B if we sign a decent 2B stopgap. Because we have Eric waiting at Iowa, we have Theroit and Cedeno as backups, and Izturis. So signing one decent 2B stopgap takes care of those positions.

 

Now you just need Drew, Soriano, or C. Lee for the outfeild. Hopefully enough is left for good pitchers and you fill out the bench with young guys or veterans if you can get decent ones cheap enough. .

[Soriano12]

Marcus Giles.

[CubColtPacer]

Marcus Giles.

 

He's one of those anti-Sorianos though-he absolutely hates leading off. He is willing to do it for the good of the team, but he has said multiple times how much he hates it, and his bad numbers at the leadoff spot might be at least partially the effect of that.

[Soriano12]

Marcus Giles.

 

He's one of those anti-Sorianos though-he absolutely hates leading off. He is willing to do it for the good of the team, but he has said multiple times how much he hates it, and his bad numbers at the leadoff spot might be at least partially the effect of that.

 

Ok...still get him and bat him 2nd.

[CubColtPacer]

Marcus Giles.

 

He's one of those anti-Sorianos though-he absolutely hates leading off. He is willing to do it for the good of the team, but he has said multiple times how much he hates it, and his bad numbers at the leadoff spot might be at least partially the effect of that.

 

Ok...still get him and bat him 2nd.

 

I'd be fine with that.

[Rob]

I've got no problems with picking up Marcus Giles.

 

Most of his peripherals were in line with the last few years, but his BABIP just took a huge dip below what could be expected. He should rebound very nicely.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I've seen a couple stories now that the Padres are having second thoughts about Brian Giles. If the Cubs could move Jones, would a Giles brothers tandem be desirable? Team OBP would be improved at least, as B. Giles > Jones and M. Giles > Cedeno or Izturis.

 

Let Theriot and Izturis platoon at SS, sign Roberts to a short-term deal (he can play CF, right?), and concentrate on pitching for the rest of the offseason. This lineup would score some runs I think--

 

1. Roberts, 2. M. Giles, 3. B. Giles, 4. Lee, 5. Ramirez, 6. Barrett, 7. Murton, 8. Theriot/Izturis.

 

Not bad and financially do-able.