New NSBB Article on Ramirez

[Tim]

Yep, this has me worked up enough that I wrote my first article for the site in goodness knows how long.

 

Link

Edited November 12, 2006 by Tim

[HoopsCubs]

Yep, this has me worked up enough that I wrote my first article for the site in goodness knows how long.

 

Link

 

Nice.

[CuseCubFan69]

Maybe Hendry did plan this.

 

His lack of vision astounds me. He has to stop wasting money on B and C type players and keep or get impact ones and guess what Jim, they cost money. Why do the Cubs always have to get a discount for a player to sign there? This organization is a joke. Nice article by the way Mr. Tim.

[Bear Cub]

Fantastically put. I am afraid this organization is in shambles.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Very nice assessment. With so few resources and so many holes, it is time for the Cubs to begin a retooling.

 

That either means locking up Zambrano or trading him.

 

That means extending Barrett or trading him.

 

Hendry is likely not up to that task. He has too much riding on this season.

[ChiCubsFan]

Very nice spin on things. Cubs should have dealt Ramirez last year. I believe they could have gotten a few top prospects from one of the LA teams. Ramirez for Kendrick and Adenhart or Ramirez and Maddux for LaRoche and Elbert.

[Outshined_One]

Here's my counter-argument to a portion of that.

 

Let's say that the Cubs awarded Ramirez a 6/$90m deal. He'll be 28/29 next season. Let's say he takes a Lowell-like career path and he goes into a massive slump when after turning 31. That gives the team between 2 1/2-3 years of production before he goes into the crapper, so he'd have something like 3/$45m on his contract.

 

As we've seen with countless players, from Lowell to Griffey to plenty of other hitters, teams will always be willing to trade for these guys. Teams talk themselves into thinking a player will eventually turn it around all the time. If Ramirez goes into a slump like that, I'm sure some other team would be fine with trading for him (be it by himself or as a part of a package).

 

The Cubs would have to pick up a portion of his salary, but so what? This team wastes money all the time and is a big market team. Part of the advantage of being a big market team is that you can absorb these kinds of contracts be it through toughing them out or paying a portion of them to drop the guy on some one else.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Very nice spin on things. Cubs should have dealt Ramirez last year. I believe they could have gotten a few top prospects from one of the LA teams. Ramirez for Kendrick and Adenhart or Ramirez and Maddux for LaRoche and Elbert.

 

NTC

[Guest]

Here's my counter-argument to a portion of that.

 

Let's say that the Cubs awarded Ramirez a 6/$90m deal. He'll be 28/29 next season. Let's say he takes a Lowell-like career path and he goes into a massive slump when after turning 31. That gives the team between 2 1/2-3 years of production before he goes into the crapper, so he'd have something like 3/$45m on his contract.

 

As we've seen with countless players, from Lowell to Griffey to plenty of other hitters, teams will always be willing to trade for these guys. Teams talk themselves into thinking a player will eventually turn it around all the time. If Ramirez goes into a slump like that, I'm sure some other team would be fine with trading for him (be it by himself or as a part of a package).

 

The Cubs would have to pick up a portion of his salary, but so what? This team wastes money all the time and is a big market team. Part of the advantage of being a big market team is that you can absorb these kinds of contracts be it through toughing them out or paying a portion of them to drop the guy on some one else.

I thought about adding something to the article that talked about offering up the seventh year on the deal if ARam would either forego the NTC or agree to a limited NTC that wouldn't hamstring the team's efforts to trade him in the future.

 

It is a very valid POV with an awful lot of logic behind it. I just don't know if ARam would have agreed to do the deal without the full NTC. And there's no way I'd give him one.

[ChiCubsFan]

Very nice spin on things. Cubs should have dealt Ramirez last year. I believe they could have gotten a few top prospects from one of the LA teams. Ramirez for Kendrick and Adenhart or Ramirez and Maddux for LaRoche and Elbert.

 

NTC

 

So...players waive NTC all the time. Is Ramirez on record saying that he refused to waive his NTC last year to go to a team with a chance to compete into October? Maybe he is, but if so, I missed it.

[BigbadB]

Manny Ramirez has a bad work ethic, can quite often be considered lazy and is well into his 30's and still putting up quality offensive numbers.

 

I'm not here to label Aramis as the Cubs savior or worthy of every dollar he would earn in a long term contract. However, Hendry put himself in the position that he had to give Aramis what he wanted.

 

And I've seen teams be competitive even though they were hampered by bad contracts.

 

And because Hendry put himself in the position of having to give Aramis the world and didn't do it, now the Cubs are even more worse off.

 

Wow. In 2003, I was so optimistic of the direction this team was headed. BEFORE THEY EVEN MADE THE PLAYOFFS.

 

I was excited about the farm system. I was excited about the money freeing up to spend on quality talent. I was excited about the increased money being made available to add quality players. I even uttered "dynasty" a few times when I viewed the future of the organization.

 

My how far we have fallen. Thanks, Jim Hendry.

[Guest]

Manny doesn't have a history of leg issues.

[Guest]

BBB,

 

I understand your position. And I'm pissed, too. But I don't think the problem is failing to cave to Aramis. The real problem is getting into a position where the team will be very challenged to even reach an average level without him.

[BigbadB]

Fair enough on the leg issues. However, Aramis' leg issues have been different. The one that knocked him out in 2001 was a foot problem. A hamstring problem like the one he had in 2004-2005 seems to have resolved itself.

 

I've heard of a few guys who never got over hamstring issues. But, I've seen a lot more get over that issue.

[Outshined_One]

Manny doesn't have a history of leg issues.

 

Really?

[CubinNY]

BBB,

 

I understand your position. And I'm pissed, too. But I don't think the problem is failing to cave to Aramis. The real problem is getting into a position where the team will be very challenged to even reach an average level without him.

 

I agree with both of you and O_O too.

 

I think another issue not address in the article is the Cubs reluctance to give longer term contracts. It has cost them time and time again.

[Guest]

Sorry for the multiple posts here...

 

One more thing on Manny. Because of his work ethic, attitude and the negatives associated with those, any team in baseball could have had him for free when the Red Sox exposed him to unconditional waivers. Nobody took him.

 

As good as ARam is, he's not in Manny's league. The fact that nobody wanted Manny's deal with fewer years left than ARam is going to get should say something.

[BigbadB]

BBB,

 

I understand your position. And I'm pissed, too. But I don't think the problem is failing to cave to Aramis. The real problem is getting into a position where the team will be very challenged to even reach an average level without him.

 

Yeah, we agree on that. I've been calling for Hendry's head for over a year now. You are well aware of that.

 

Trading 3 prospects for a 1 year rental like Pierre was beyond stupid. The failure to recognize how far his value had decreased in making such a sizeable offer is inexcusable.

[Guest]

Manny doesn't have a history of leg issues.

 

Really?

How many years has that been an issue for him?

[Guest]

I think another issue not address in the article is the Cubs reluctance to give longer term contracts. It has cost them time and time again.

Yeah, I didn't explicitly state that in the article. It is implied, though, that they should have made the move on Beltran if they were looking for a lower risk option to lock up long-term.

[Outshined_One]

Manny doesn't have a history of leg issues.

 

Really?

How many years has that been an issue for him?

 

I know, I'm just giving you a hard time. :P

 

He's had some injury issues in the past, but nothing quite a serious as A-Ram's. Also, Lowell had no major injury issues whatsoever, as memory serves me.

[Guest]

Manny doesn't have a history of leg issues.

 

Really?

How many years has that been an issue for him?

 

I know, I'm just giving you a hard time. :P

 

He's had some injury issues in the past, but nothing quite a serious as A-Ram's. Also, Lowell had no major injury issues whatsoever, as memory serves me.

I thought Lowell played through nagging back injuries for a long time.

 

But I'm going off memory there, so I could be mistaken.

[BigbadB]

Sorry for the multiple posts here...

 

One more thing on Manny. Because of his work ethic, attitude and the negatives associated with those, any team in baseball could have had him for free when the Red Sox exposed him to unconditional waivers. Nobody took him.

 

As good as ARam is, he's not in Manny's league. The fact that nobody wanted Manny's deal with fewer years left than ARam is going to get should say something.

 

I'm not comparing Aram to Manny, per se. I'm just giving an example of a guy I considered to have comparable issues as Aram, yet has continued to stay productive in his mid 30's.

 

Mike Lowell isn't enough of a comparison for me to label Aramis as a lock to drop offensive production significantly. Just as Mike Lowell's recovery from cancer isn't a lock that all baseball players can lead a productive baseball career after a major recovery from cancer.

[Outshined_One]

I thought Lowell played through nagging back injuries for a long time.

 

But I'm going off memory there, so I could be mistaken.

 

Actually, I blocked his 2003 season out of my mind. We all remember Game 1 of the NLCS.

[Guest]

Sorry for the multiple posts here...

 

One more thing on Manny. Because of his work ethic, attitude and the negatives associated with those, any team in baseball could have had him for free when the Red Sox exposed him to unconditional waivers. Nobody took him.

 

As good as ARam is, he's not in Manny's league. The fact that nobody wanted Manny's deal with fewer years left than ARam is going to get should say something.

 

I'm not comparing Aram to Manny, per se. I'm just giving an example of a guy I considered to have comparable issues as Aram, yet has continued to stay productive in his mid 30's.

 

Mike Lowell isn't enough of a comparison for me to label Aramis as a lock to drop offensive production significantly. Just as Mike Lowell's recovery from cancer isn't a lock that all baseball players can lead a productive baseball career after a major recovery from cancer.

Lowell is just one example. There are plenty out there of unathletic guys that fell off a performance cliff shortly after turning 30.