Week 10: Bears at NY Giants - Sunday, Nov 12, 8:15 pm EST

[jmajew]

The problem with the offense is not necessarily Ron Turner. It is Rex Grossman sometimes getting lazy and throwing off his back foot and dropping his elbow to low which causes him to loft the ball.

 

I think the problem is mostly Turner relying too heavily on Grossman throwing deep whenever possible, and abandoning the run. Grossman's mechanical flaws only seem to be exposed once the offense abandons the run and starts taking heat.

 

When Grossmans mechanics are bad teams know they don't have to pay as close attention to the short and intermediate routes because they know Grossman will not be accurate. This allows them to be more aware of the deep routes. When Grossmans mechanics are good and can connect on the quick slants and the short-in/out routes it opens up the deep ball/which is what he does best.

 

Grossman's mechanics breakdown when he is under pressure just like 95% of the QB's in the league. His mechanics in the first quarter were fine and he was very accurate on the first scoring drive.

 

The interception in the 4th quarter Grossman was not under pressure. He was just on his pack foot and he let his arm drop.

[jmajew]

The problem with the offense is not necessarily Ron Turner. It is Rex Grossman sometimes getting lazy and throwing off his back foot and dropping his elbow to low which causes him to loft the ball.

 

I think the problem is mostly Turner relying too heavily on Grossman throwing deep whenever possible, and abandoning the run. Grossman's mechanical flaws only seem to be exposed once the offense abandons the run and starts taking heat.

 

When Grossmans mechanics are bad teams know they don't have to pay as close attention to the short and intermediate routes because they know Grossman will not be accurate. This allows them to be more aware of the deep routes. When Grossmans mechanics are good and can connect on the quick slants and the short-in/out routes it opens up the deep ball/which is what he does best.

 

It's not like he just goes into a game with bad mechanics. He starts to mess up when Turner has him dropping back and throwing deep every play.

 

Grossman's bad mechanics don't effect him on his deep balls as much...it is more when he is throwing the short routes. He threw no picks when he was trying to go deep. In the second quarter he was picked off trying to dump it to Clark when he was rolling out of the pocket and it was picked off by Taylor. In the third quarter he tried to throw a short 5 yard pass to Clark but his arm dropped and he threw it well over his head. Again he was under pressure but he overthrew him not because he was avoiding the rush but because his elbow got low causing a bad angle to throw the ball 5 yards. In the fourth as i said he was under no pressure and overthrough Cage. Again he was on his back foot and his elbow dropped. Even last week against the 49ers on one of the touchdown catches i believe to Rasheed Davis he through off his backfoot, he got lucky on that one.

 

When you throw balls deep the ball has a higher trajectory therefore if the arm angle is a bit low it doesn't effect the pass other than the pass possibly being underthrown because not enough force is generated from being on the back foot and the arm angle. On the short passes the trajectory is usually much lower so when the arm drops and you throw off the back foot the ball generally sails over the recievers head.

Edited November 6, 2006 by jmajew

[Shavo]

The Strahan injury will hurt the Giants run D, but to whoever said the Bears should run the ball, the Giants are amazing against the run. To beat this team, even with injurys, you must exploit the questionable secondary.

 

And Manning > Grossman.

[Chocolate Milk]

The problem with the offense is not necessarily Ron Turner. It is Rex Grossman sometimes getting lazy and throwing off his back foot and dropping his elbow to low which causes him to loft the ball.

 

I think the problem is mostly Turner relying too heavily on Grossman throwing deep whenever possible, and abandoning the run. Grossman's mechanical flaws only seem to be exposed once the offense abandons the run and starts taking heat.

 

When Grossmans mechanics are bad teams know they don't have to pay as close attention to the short and intermediate routes because they know Grossman will not be accurate. This allows them to be more aware of the deep routes. When Grossmans mechanics are good and can connect on the quick slants and the short-in/out routes it opens up the deep ball/which is what he does best.

 

Grossman's mechanics breakdown when he is under pressure just like 95% of the QB's in the league. His mechanics in the first quarter were fine and he was very accurate on the first scoring drive.

 

The interception in the 4th quarter Grossman was not under pressure. He was just on his pack foot and he let his arm drop.

 

He didn't step into the throw because of earlier pressure in that series. Whatever, we are splitting hairs here. Grossman simply doesn't have the expierence the handle the situations that Turner puts him in. His mechanics to breakdown at times in the game, on that we agree. To me it seems pretty clear when he starts doing the "Techmo Bowl" dropbacks and throws off the back foot, he is worried about the pressure.

[jmajew]

The problem with the offense is not necessarily Ron Turner. It is Rex Grossman sometimes getting lazy and throwing off his back foot and dropping his elbow to low which causes him to loft the ball.

 

I think the problem is mostly Turner relying too heavily on Grossman throwing deep whenever possible, and abandoning the run. Grossman's mechanical flaws only seem to be exposed once the offense abandons the run and starts taking heat.

 

When Grossmans mechanics are bad teams know they don't have to pay as close attention to the short and intermediate routes because they know Grossman will not be accurate. This allows them to be more aware of the deep routes. When Grossmans mechanics are good and can connect on the quick slants and the short-in/out routes it opens up the deep ball/which is what he does best.

 

Grossman's mechanics breakdown when he is under pressure just like 95% of the QB's in the league. His mechanics in the first quarter were fine and he was very accurate on the first scoring drive.

 

The interception in the 4th quarter Grossman was not under pressure. He was just on his pack foot and he let his arm drop.

 

He didn't step into the throw because of earlier pressure in that series. Whatever, we are splitting hairs here. Grossman simply doesn't have the expierence the handle the situations that Turner puts him in. His mechanics to breakdown at times in the game, on that we agree. To me it seems pretty clear when he starts doing the "Techmo Bowl" dropbacks and throws off the back foot, he is worried about the pressure.

 

Do we agree that he is worried about pressure that is sometimes non-existent?

[goonys evil twin]

Do we agree that he is worried about pressure that is sometimes non-existent?

 

That is possibly true, but only because he sees so much repeated pressure, that he almost starts to assume it'll be coming when he keeps dropping back.

[Chocolate Milk]

The Strahan injury will hurt the Giants run D, but to whoever said the Bears should run the ball, the Giants are amazing against the run. To beat this team, even with injurys, you must exploit the questionable secondary.

 

And Manning > Grossman.

 

They are good against the run, but not amazing. They are pretty much the same as the Bears against the run and I wouldn't say the Bears are amazing by any stretch.

 

Manning > Grossman I agree. When I compared the two it was in terms of their propensity to turn the ball over through the air. Eli only has one less INT than Rex. In that regard they are similar.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Chocolate Milk

[Chocolate Milk]

Do we agree that he is worried about pressure that is sometimes non-existent?

 

That is possibly true, but only because he sees so much repeated pressure, that he almost starts to assume it'll be coming when he keeps dropping back.

 

I would say that he tends to get skittish when he gets repeated pressure and a few big pops.

[goonys evil twin]

The Strahan injury will hurt the Giants run D, but to whoever said the Bears should run the ball, the Giants are amazing against the run. To beat this team, even with injurys, you must exploit the questionable secondary.

 

And Manning > Grossman.

 

I think that last point is debatable. Manning has more pro experience. But his 2006 rating is barely higher than Grossman's, while his career rating is a tad lower. Manning has a slightly better TD/INT ratio this year, and a bit better completion percentage, but by and large they are similar QB's. Both have big time potential playmaking ability, and both make stupid mistakes.

 

As for the defense against the run, the Giants give up a little more than the Bears, and have given up several more TDs on the ground. I wouldn't call them amazing against the run. Good yes, but hardly invincible, and now they are injury depleted.

[OleMissCub]

Eli has already beaten Rex once when Ole Miss beat Florida in 2002. It was a great day: Goalposts came down and I got maced for trying to do so by the plastic cops. GREAT day.

 

I think it was the only time they played against each other.

[YearofDaCubs]

Eli has already beaten Rex once when Ole Miss beat Florida in 2002. It was a great day: Goalposts came down and I got maced for trying to do so by the plastic cops. GREAT day.

 

I think it was the only time they played against each other.

Jeez do I wish I was the flag pole in your sig. ;)

[Banedon]

Urlacher has a sprained foot...

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-061106urlacher,1,563609.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

Given that the article is all of 2 paragraphs, I'm just going to post it...I'm such a rebel..

 

The MRI on the left foot of Bears linebacker Brian Urlacher revealed a sprained ligament, according to FoxSports.com's Jay Glazer. However, Urlacher told Glazer he has no intention of sitting out of next Sunday's game against the New York Giants at the Meadowlands.

 

"If it's up to me I will [play]," Urlacher said. "They told me it all depends on how much pain I can take. I can deal with that."

 

I love this guy.

[OBPMatters]

During the Bears' press conference, the report is Urlacher has a sprained big-toe and BB is day-to-day w/the rib injury.

[OBPMatters]

McGowan is done w/a ruptured achilles.

[Chocolate Milk]

McGowan is done w/a ruptured achilles.

 

Wow, really bad luck. He made some nice plays on special teams.

[Banedon]

McGowan is done w/a ruptured achilles.

 

Wow, really bad luck. He made some nice plays on special teams.

 

No kidding...that was his first game back right?

[Chocolate Milk]

McGowan is done w/a ruptured achilles.

 

Wow, really bad luck. He made some nice plays on special teams.

 

No kidding...that was his first game back right?

 

Yup. I think it was his first game back from a torn up knee.

[Soul]

Just me, but if I've got a bruised rib I'm finding a way to take the field in the biggest game of the year when my team needs me. Again---that's just me, but I would hope Bernard feels the same way.

 

As for Urlacher, I'm not sure how a guy plays the very next play after the injury, and also walks off the field under his own power without any real difficulty if it's a serious injury.

 

I agree, if these two are out our chances go down dramatically. I'm just saying, from what I'm seeing, I would be disappointed if neither is going to take the field, for *THIS* game of all of them. This is as close to you can get to a playoff-calibre football game in week 10.

 

Did you see his postgame interview? The man could barely talk and was having a hard time breathing. Maybe that would change in a week, but judging by his interview after the game, I was fairly certain he was out.

 

No I'm sorry I didn't see the post-game interview. I was just going on the reports that it was only a bruised rib, not a broken one.

[goonys evil twin]

I met a girl who is getting married Saturday. And the wedding is going to be at the same hotel where the Bears are supposedly staying. Maybe I should go to the bar and talk some sense into Turner, I'm sure he's appreciate my input.

[Soul]

The Strahan injury will hurt the Giants run D, but to whoever said the Bears should run the ball, the Giants are amazing against the run. To beat this team, even with injurys, you must exploit the questionable secondary.

 

And Manning > Grossman.

 

I think that last point is debatable. Manning has more pro experience. But his 2006 rating is barely higher than Grossman's, while his career rating is a tad lower. Manning has a slightly better TD/INT ratio this year, and a bit better completion percentage, but by and large they are similar QB's. Both have big time potential playmaking ability, and both make stupid mistakes.

 

As for the defense against the run, the Giants give up a little more than the Bears, and have given up several more TDs on the ground. I wouldn't call them amazing against the run. Good yes, but hardly invincible, and now they are injury depleted.

 

I do agree with Shavo that Manning is better than Grossman at this point in time. Not sure how it will all shake out in the end, but I would think at some point the Bears are going to need to work on his checkdowns and hot reads in order for him to take the next step.

 

As for running the ball, I think the real point is committing to the run, which we haven't really done consistently enough. I'm confident we can run the ball well enough to be effective so long as we don't give up on it when the going gets tough. Sure----some games we'll get stuffed, but I think that happens to just about everyone anyway.

 

We will learn much about the Bears next Sunday, IMO. No offense to Giants fans, but this game is all about the Bears, and really not about the Giants at all. Win or lose, nobody's opinion of the Giants will change. Opinions about the Bears will be formed next week that will last the rest of the season.

[goonys evil twin]

I do agree with Shavo that Manning is better than Grossman at this point in time. Not sure how it will all shake out in the end, but I would think at some point the Bears are going to need to work on his checkdowns and hot reads in order for him to take the next step.

 

He is probably marginally better, but the numbers indicate it's not a big difference. At this point in their careers, it would not be the least bit surprising to see either play better than the other in any specific game. The general description is quite similar.

 

 

As for running the ball, I think the real point is committing to the run, which we haven't really done consistently enough. I'm confident we can run the ball well enough to be effective so long as we don't give up on it when the going gets tough. Sure----some games we'll get stuffed, but I think that happens to just about everyone anyway.

 

We will learn much about the Bears next Sunday, IMO. No offense to Giants fans, but this game is all about the Bears, and really not about the Giants at all. Win or lose, nobody's opinion of the Giants will change. Opinions about the Bears will be formed next week that will last the rest of the season.

 

I don't know about that. The Giants beat the Bears and all of a sudden they are NFC favorites. If the Giants lose, the steam from their 5 game winning streak runs out, and they fall into a batch of also rans in the NFC. This is a huge game for both teams.

[Soul]

Not sure if this was posted, but Berrian is apparently out up to 4 weeks:

 

http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/news_story/?ID=183202&hubname=nfl

 

 

So, deep threat? Gone. Someone kindly inform Mark Bradley that it is time for his tweaky legs to start actually......you know......HEALING 'n all.

[Magnetic Curses]

The problem with the offense is not necessarily Ron Turner. It is Rex Grossman sometimes getting lazy and throwing off his back foot and dropping his elbow to low which causes him to loft the ball.

 

I think the problem is mostly Turner relying too heavily on Grossman throwing deep whenever possible, and abandoning the run. Grossman's mechanical flaws only seem to be exposed once the offense abandons the run and starts taking heat.

 

the real problem is that the bears ran around a lot and left the ball on the ground.

 

if you take away the big drop by gage, the gage fumble, and the hester fumble, i think the bears win the game.

 

those are a lot of plays to be making "but if" statements about, but if the bears hold onto the ball or make a key catch, they control the tempo of the game. i don't think rex played badly, he's just not good enough yet to be able to make up for the fact that the hester fumble changed the entire complexion of the game.

[Magnetic Curses]

and i reaslly don't see what makes manning better than rex. they look like the same type of QB only manning has a gigantic preying mantis to throw the ball to.

[Soul]

I don't know about that. The Giants beat the Bears and all of a sudden they are NFC favorites. If the Giants lose, the steam from their 5 game winning streak runs out, and they fall into a batch of also rans in the NFC. This is a huge game for both teams.

 

I suppose, but I just feel if the Giants beat the Bears it's like a college team beating the #3 team in week 2, but by the end of the year that club isn't ranked anymore so what did you really beat?

 

My point is, if the Giants win, people will begin to dismiss the Bears so hence, not as triumphant a victory for the Giants.

 

If the Giants lose they stay right where they are now, top challengers to the Bears once the playoffs start. I guess I'm just being biased.