Rotation question.

[Backtobanks]

All of the rumors and speculation I have read involves Hill being traded. I don't have a problem with that except, at this point Hill is the #2 starter in the rotation. If Hill is traded, I would think Hendry has to acquire a #2 and a #3 starter with the assumption that the #4 and#5 starters can come from Prior, Miller(?), Marshall, Guzman, Mateo, etc. I would think that the Cubs can't go into the season with one of the group I mentioned above as a #3 starter and expect to contend.

[Pinktermite]

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Unless a guy named ARod fits into the equation someplace.

[Backtobanks]

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Unless a guy named ARod fits into the equation someplace.

 

Yea, but he doesn't pitch. Having an All-Star lineup with lousy pitching won't get you too far (see the Yankees).

[goonys evil twin]

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Unless a guy named ARod fits into the equation someplace.

 

Yea, but he doesn't pitch. Having an All-Star lineup with lousy pitching won't get you too far (see the Yankees).

 

The Yankees got very far. The Mets have as well, with a rag tag collection of pitchers toward the end. Why people seem to think that winning 97 games isn't very far is beyond me. It's makes for great copy when you talk about great pitching shutting down great hitting. But lots of really mediocre, or even crappy, pitchers shut down lineups from time to time. Great pitching didn't help San Diego, Minnesota or the Angels much.

 

This team needs both pitching and hitting.

[Derwood]

what are all these rumors about Hill being traded? I've heard none

[KingCubsFan]

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Unless a guy named ARod fits into the equation someplace.

 

Yea, but he doesn't pitch. Having an All-Star lineup with lousy pitching won't get you too far (see the Yankees).

 

The Yankees got very far. The Mets have as well, with a rag tag collection of pitchers toward the end. Why people seem to think that winning 97 games isn't very far is beyond me. It's makes for great copy when you talk about great pitching shutting down great hitting. But lots of really mediocre, or even crappy, pitchers shut down lineups from time to time. Great pitching didn't help San Diego, Minnesota or the Angels much.

 

This team needs both pitching and hitting.

I agree that the team needs both pitching and hitting, but the objective is to win a World Series, and teams with bad pitching usually don't do that. the Yankees won't be winning the WS this year, the Mets probably won't and the Red Sox didn't last year. Assembling a great offense and surrounding it with pitchers you hope won't lose you games isn't a great strategy to win a championship.

[goonys evil twin]

Assembling a great offense and surrounding it with pitchers you hope won't lose you games isn't a great strategy to win a championship.

 

But it's got the Cardinals one game away from at least being there, at least the pitchers you hope won't lose part.

 

Great pitching beats great hitting is just an after the fact comment. It's hard to tell, year-in and year-out which group of pitchers will be great, and that's doubly true in the playoffs. I mean Jeff Weaver has shut down some great hitters, and he sucks. Likewise, Kenny Rogers made a career of being the exact oppositive of the proverbial big game pitcher, and all of a sudden he's pitching great in the playoffs.

 

I think the Cubs need to get as many good pitchers as possible. But there's no telling who will be there in the end.

[Electron Blue]

what are all these rumors about Hill being traded? I've heard none

 

A-rod.

 

I'm pretty sure it's all been speculation at this point (particularly, the inclusion of Hill), but it does make some sense, so it's worth considering.

[Backtobanks]

what are all these rumors about Hill being traded? I've heard none

 

Hill is the most realistic option in any trade scenario. Prior has a lot of question marks, Zambrano isn't going anywhere, and the other young pitchers (Marshall, Mateo, Guzman, Marmol, etc.) have shown that they can be solid major league pitchers yet. Hill packaged with Murton/Cedeno/Jones/Pie/etc. would get the attention of most baseball GMs. In addition to the ARod rumors, I'm sure he would be asked for in any deal involving Dunn, Tejada, Crawford, or Andruw Jones all of which have been speculated.

[fiver]

what are all these rumors about Hill being traded? I've heard none

 

A-rod.

 

I'm pretty sure it's all been speculation at this point (particularly, the inclusion of Hill), but it does make some sense, so it's worth considering.

 

Wouldn't the Yankees likely be able to get a better package for ARod from another team? I'm going to go out on a limb and state that Hill and spare parts wont' do it. Hill simply is not a proven top of the rotation SP, and that is what the Yankees will likely demand, IMO.

 

To address the topic presented in this thread, the Cubs would probably pull the trigger on a Hill centered trade for Arod if this were offerred....and then sign 2 FA SPs

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While we hear a lot of the great pitching beats great hitting mantra in the postseason, in the regular season it is possible to make the postseason with average pitching and an extremely potent line-up.

 

Why is this true?

 

There is more mediocre to bad pitching than there is great pitching. A powerful line-up will feast on that bad to mediocre pitching.

 

Pitching becomes more important in the postseason. But even then, it's more important to have 1-2 great starters than it is to have a very good, deep rotation.

 

While most of us are clamoring for a deep rotation, if the Cubs were able to get Arod for SS and improve CF with a Soriano additon, the offense might look like this:

 

CF Soriano

LF Murton

SS Arod

1b Lee

3b Ramirez

RF Jones

C Barrett

2b Izturia/Theriot

 

Even if the Cubs had to pay the price of Rich Hill for Arod, if they could sign one of the dominant pitching FA like Daisuke, Schmidt, or Zito they would be ok.

 

Yes, 3/5 of the rotation would be up in question, but with that line-up the Cubs would score plenty.

 

And even in the playoffs, the Cubs would have Zambrano + Schmidt/Daisuke/Zito as the two aces needed to win along with a potent line-up.

[jmajew]

While we hear a lot of the great pitching beats great hitting mantra in the postseason, in the regular season it is possible to make the postseason with average pitching and an extremely potent line-up.

 

Why is this true?

 

There is more mediocre to bad pitching than there is great pitching. A powerful line-up will feast on that bad to mediocre pitching.

 

Pitching becomes more important in the postseason. But even then, it's more important to have 1-2 great starters than it is to have a very good, deep rotation.

 

While most of us are clamoring for a deep rotation, if the Cubs were able to get Arod for SS and improve CF with a Soriano additon, the offense might look like this:

 

CF Soriano

LF Murton

SS Arod

1b Lee

3b Ramirez

RF Jones

C Barrett

2b Izturia/Theriot

 

Even if the Cubs had to pay the price of Rich Hill for Arod, if they could sign one of the dominant pitching FA like Daisuke, Schmidt, or Zito they would be ok.

 

Yes, 3/5 of the rotation would be up in question, but with that line-up the Cubs would score plenty.

 

And even in the playoffs, the Cubs would have Zambrano + Schmidt/Daisuke/Zito as the two aces needed to win along with a potent line-up.

 

I think the reason people are clamoring for a deep rotation is because of the fact all of our pitchers seem to get injured. I would love to see the cubs with that lineup. However, i'd also love to have Hill. A rotation of Zambrano, Zito/Schmidt/Daisuke, Hill, and Prior/Miller in the postseason would be dominant.

 

The big problem with the big two theory is the situation the Mets are in. Pedro got hurt and left them with Glavine. They now, in all likelyhood have no chance of winning the World Series. Having a big two is fine but you need a capably 3,4,5.

[Zaphkiel]

what are all these rumors about Hill being traded? I've heard none

 

A-rod.

 

I'm pretty sure it's all been speculation at this point (particularly, the inclusion of Hill), but it does make some sense, so it's worth considering.

 

Wouldn't the Yankees likely be able to get a better package for ARod from another team? I'm going to go out on a limb and state that Hill and spare parts wont' do it. Hill simply is not a proven top of the rotation SP, and that is what the Yankees will likely demand, IMO.

 

To address the topic presented in this thread, the Cubs would probably pull the trigger on a Hill centered trade for Arod if this were offerred....and then sign 2 FA SPs

 

There aren't really that many teams that can absorb A-Rod's $23 million salary this year. I guarantee that other teams could offer more in terms of players, but their payroll just won't support it.

[Rob]

what are all these rumors about Hill being traded? I've heard none

 

A-rod.

 

I'm pretty sure it's all been speculation at this point (particularly, the inclusion of Hill), but it does make some sense, so it's worth considering.

 

Wouldn't the Yankees likely be able to get a better package for ARod from another team? I'm going to go out on a limb and state that Hill and spare parts wont' do it. Hill simply is not a proven top of the rotation SP, and that is what the Yankees will likely demand, IMO.

 

To address the topic presented in this thread, the Cubs would probably pull the trigger on a Hill centered trade for Arod if this were offerred....and then sign 2 FA SPs

 

There aren't really that many teams that can absorb A-Rod's $23 million salary this year. I guarantee that other teams could offer more in terms of players, but their payroll just won't support it.

 

Texas is picking up a sizable chunk of that contract. New York is paying 16 per year, I believe.

[WrigleyField 22]

what are all these rumors about Hill being traded? I've heard none

 

A-rod.

 

I'm pretty sure it's all been speculation at this point (particularly, the inclusion of Hill), but it does make some sense, so it's worth considering.

 

Wouldn't the Yankees likely be able to get a better package for ARod from another team? I'm going to go out on a limb and state that Hill and spare parts wont' do it. Hill simply is not a proven top of the rotation SP, and that is what the Yankees will likely demand, IMO.

 

To address the topic presented in this thread, the Cubs would probably pull the trigger on a Hill centered trade for Arod if this were offerred....and then sign 2 FA SPs

 

There aren't really that many teams that can absorb A-Rod's $23 million salary this year. I guarantee that other teams could offer more in terms of players, but their payroll just won't support it.

 

Texas is picking up a sizable chunk of that contract. New York is paying 16 per year, I believe.

 

Add to the fact that the Yankees might be willing to pick up some of the tab, many teams could afford him (money wise at least)