Murton top 5 defensively?

[b_wiggy_66]

I read this in John Heymans article on SI talking about Bonds and this was mentioned in it:

 

On a more mundane level, Bonds has been slowed some by knee problems this year, and some think he'd be better off switching to the DH position. But Borris was quick to point out that Bonds finished fifth in range factor out of 11 qualifying left fielders in the National League, behind only Alfonso Soriano, Dave Roberts, Jason Bay and Matt Murton, and that Bonds' fielding stats resemble the 1994 season, when he won one of his eight Gold Glove awards. This season he has 188 putouts in 115 starts, compared to 198 putouts in 112 starts in 1994, six assists compared to 10, and three errors, same as in '94.

 

This is interesting, many people think that Murton is not good defensively and cannot cover much ground. Turns out he's better than I thought. Just another reason to make him a starter in '07.

[treebird]

I read this in John Heymans article on SI talking about Bonds and this was mentioned in it:

 

On a more mundane level, Bonds has been slowed some by knee problems this year, and some think he'd be better off switching to the DH position. But Borris was quick to point out that Bonds finished fifth in range factor out of 11 qualifying left fielders in the National League, behind only Alfonso Soriano, Dave Roberts, Jason Bay and Matt Murton, and that Bonds' fielding stats resemble the 1994 season, when he won one of his eight Gold Glove awards. This season he has 188 putouts in 115 starts, compared to 198 putouts in 112 starts in 1994, six assists compared to 10, and three errors, same as in '94.

 

This is interesting, many people think that Murton is not good defensively and cannot cover much ground. Turns out he's better than I thought. Just another reason to make him a starter in '07.

 

let's not get too excited about range factor

[RichHillIsABeast]

Range factor? Bwahahahaha

 

 

Sorry.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Murton had a 106 rate, and midway through the season Count the Rings had him on pace to be 7 runs above average over the course of the season.

[Peoriaman]

Murton did a decent job in left. His defensive problems are greatly overexaggerated.

[Wilson A2000]

He seemed to screw up the easy plays at times. But he'll get better. I have confidence in the man.

[Mizzou]

Yet another reason why defensive stats are virtuously worthless.

[jjgman21]

isn't the main knock on range factor that it is based on plays/outs and therefore doesn't account for Ks and flyball v. groundball pitchers?

 

well the Cubs staff leans groundball over flyball, and once again they lead the league in Ks, thus Murton had far less opportunity to build those RF stats, yet still managed to be top 5.

 

what do the defensive metrics say? I view Murton's defense to be firmly in the catagory of nonconcerns.

[Peoriaman]

stat guys always point to stats, except when the stats don't support their bias.

[Sammy Sofa]

stat guys always point to stats, except when the stats don't support their bias.

 

Or they just point to the stats that tell you the whole story.

[Guest]

stat guys always point to stats, except when the stats don't support their bias.

Out of curiosity, which stat person are you attempting to impugn?

[Peoriaman]

general statement about moneyball guys.

[Rob]

general statement about moneyball guys.

 

Interesting point. :roll:

 

By the way, moneyball isn't about stats. It's about identifying weaknesses in the market and exploiting them. It's more about the economics of baseball. But I'm sure you already knew that; otherwise you'd just look silly talking about things you don't know.

 

You'd be better off using the term sabermetrician.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I <3 baseless accusations

[Geech]

general statement about moneyball guys.

 

You probably should have started a rant thread instead of pulling a drive-by in this one.

[Peoriaman]

I don't have time for a rant. :)

[Magnetic Curses]

general statement about moneyball guys.

 

i think that most of the "stat guys" on this board believe that RF is flawed metric.

 

a strange post from the p-man, a poster that i respect greatly.

[frostwyrm]

stat guys always point to stats, except when the stats don't support their bias.

Find me a guy who is a hardcore defensive stat guy. If such a person exists I haven't met him/her.

[brinoch]

general statement about moneyball guys.

 

You've been here a long time -- certainly long enough to know that you shouldn't make generalizations like this.

[SouthSideRyan]

stat guys always point to stats, except when the stats don't support their bias.

Find me a guy who is a hardcore defensive stat guy. If such a person exists I haven't met him/her.

 

Mitchel Lichtman of UZR is. But he's a douchebag.

[MPrior]

Yet another reason why defensive stats are virtuously worthless.

 

The idea of being (or calling someone) virtuously worthless makes me laugh.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Yet another reason why defensive stats are virtuously worthless.

 

The idea of being (or calling someone) virtuously worthless makes me laugh.

 

Mizzou is the Norm Crosby of NSBB, no?

[KingCubsFan]

general statement about moneyball guys.

 

Interesting point. :roll:

 

By the way, moneyball isn't about stats. It's about identifying weaknesses in the market and exploiting them. It's more about the economics of baseball. But I'm sure you already knew that; otherwise you'd just look silly talking about things you don't know.

 

You'd be better off using the term sabermetrician.

You're right about Moneyball, but there's a lot of people that fail to realize this. A lot of people just read Moneyball and, as a result, cling to OBP. What they fail to realize is that their Hero incorporated a lot of the things they criticize (defense, productive outs) into his philosophy a few years ago because he felt they were undervalued.

[SouthSideRyan]

Yeah I don't think Billy Beane has ever looked at how many productive outs a guy has made before deciding to acquire him.

[Drew Doughty]

it's pretty much speed and defense for Beane right now. He doesn't like "productive outs" because it's still an out.