Intriguing Thought: Jones Might Want Out?

[Bull]

I like the JD Drew idea. He's a very, very good all around player who could be an absolute monster in Wrigley.

 

He's not quite Beltran, but he was my second choice when both were on the market.

 

Drew spends a lot of time on the DL. We should be trying to avoid that kind of player, if the last two years has taught us anything.

 

So have a good backup for the 30 games he'll miss. The 125 games he's in the lineup, he'd be a force.

 

He's been pretty healthy this year.

 

I like the idea. If he gets injured (which is likely for about 30 games or so) you could just platoon Pie and Restovich during that time. Drew has himself a lucious OBP and now I'm really liking this scenario. Someone get Hendry on the phone.

 

He's making 11M a year through '09. You don't pay that much money for a guy who's a good bet to spend significant time on the DL.

 

Every acquisition we make needs to take into account durability. There's better ways to spend 11M a season, or roughly 10% of our payroll.

 

You have a very good point, but the fact that Drew usually plays at least 100 games every season makes it less of a gamble. If he played 130 games I think he'd be worth it, mostly because I think a Pie/Restovich platoon would give us some pretty good production if he did get hurt. I know the Cubs have really been burnt by injuries, but eventually we have to get lucky.....right?

 

Of course. In a 100 year span you could accidently win a world series, even if you aren't trying, right? Right?!?

[Magnetic Curses]

i like the idea of obtaining drew, but his deal would cripple our ability to get pitching, which is what we really need.

 

i also think that jones is desperate to be out of chicago, he hates the fans, pure and simple. i can't say that i blame him, but to repeatedly rail publicly against the people that help pay his check is bush league. hey jacque, maybe twins fans would be a little higher strung if they hadn't had a title in almost 100 years, ya think?

 

but anyway, back to pitching. if we have to neglect the offense in order to field a good staff, i say do it. bring me two of zito, schmidt, matsuzaka, and mussina. let aram walk, play moore at third, sign edmonds.

 

maybe jacque for brady clark and tony graffanino would do the job. it imroves our OBP and gives us a pretty decent utility infielder. the contracts work out, at least for next year, i think.

 

if edmonds gets hurt, or has to miss some games, clark can play center, restovich/pagan can play right.

 

our obp is improved without having to spend all of our available cash on high priced position players, plus our pitching is dominant. we're in the playoffs next season.

[goonys evil twin]

but anyway, back to pitching. if we have to neglect the offense in order to field a good staff, i say do it. bring me two of zito, schmidt, matsuzaka, and mussina. let aram walk, play moore at third, sign edmonds.

 

That's a terrible idea.

 

Neglecting the offense is exactly why this team has struggled so much.

[Magnetic Curses]

but anyway, back to pitching. if we have to neglect the offense in order to field a good staff, i say do it. bring me two of zito, schmidt, matsuzaka, and mussina. let aram walk, play moore at third, sign edmonds.

 

That's a terrible idea.

 

Neglecting the offense is exactly why this team has struggled so much.

 

no, this team has struggled because of a lack of pitching. management's conventional view of offense has only added to the team's problems.

 

a team can excel with a lack of offense, that much has been proven. it cannot excel with a lack of pitching.

 

aram is a valuable part of the offense, no doubt, but if his departure means the pitching will be improved, i'm all for it. i'd give moore a chance.

[goonys evil twin]

but anyway, back to pitching. if we have to neglect the offense in order to field a good staff, i say do it. bring me two of zito, schmidt, matsuzaka, and mussina. let aram walk, play moore at third, sign edmonds.

 

That's a terrible idea.

 

Neglecting the offense is exactly why this team has struggled so much.

 

no, this team has struggled because of a lack of pitching. management's conventional view of offense has only added to the team's problems.

 

a team can excel with a lack of offense, that much has been proven. it cannot excel with a lack of pitching.

 

aram is a valuable part of the offense, no doubt, but if his departure means the pitching will be improved, i'm all for it. i'd give moore a chance.

 

Well, the worst part is your obsession with Edmonds.

 

It's possible to win without good hitting, it's very difficult though. And pretty stupid, and unnecessary for the Cubs. They have plenty of financial rooms to get pitching and hitting. I don't get why people are so hung up on the idea that they can only add very little this offseason. I've ran through the numbers several times and there is plenty of space for hitting and pitching.

[Magnetic Curses]

but anyway, back to pitching. if we have to neglect the offense in order to field a good staff, i say do it. bring me two of zito, schmidt, matsuzaka, and mussina. let aram walk, play moore at third, sign edmonds.

 

That's a terrible idea.

 

Neglecting the offense is exactly why this team has struggled so much.

 

no, this team has struggled because of a lack of pitching. management's conventional view of offense has only added to the team's problems.

 

a team can excel with a lack of offense, that much has been proven. it cannot excel with a lack of pitching.

 

aram is a valuable part of the offense, no doubt, but if his departure means the pitching will be improved, i'm all for it. i'd give moore a chance.

 

Well, the worst part is your obsession with Edmonds.

 

he'd come cheaper than ramirez and likely put up a similar OPS. that's simple.

 

It's possible to win without good hitting, it's very difficult though. And pretty stupid, and unnecessary for the Cubs. They have plenty of financial rooms to get pitching and hitting. I don't get why people are so hung up on the idea that they can only add very little this offseason. I've ran through the numbers several times and there is plenty of space for hitting and pitching.

 

i don't know how much money they have, but with a significant raise due for zambrano this offseason, there won't be the money you think is available, and who knows what effect the loss of macphail will have on payroll, it could go up or down. personally, i also don't know how much the addition of soriano AND CLee would improve this team without adding a significant amount of pitching as well.

 

and the astros made the world series last season with almost no hitting to speak of. the white sox won the series without one .300 hitter.

[goonys evil twin]

he'd come cheaper than ramirez and likely put up a similar OPS. that's simple.

 

I'd bet heavily against that.

 

i don't know how much money they have, but with a significant raise due for zambrano this offseason, there won't be the money you think is available,

 

Yeah, I'm not an idiot, I took that into account. There's lot of money available. Plenty to not have to settle on Moore at 3B and Edmonds as the key offensive addition.

[Mizzou]

he'd come cheaper than ramirez and likely put up a similar OPS. that's simple.

What do you base that on? The part about the similar OPS, that is.

[goonys evil twin]

he'd come cheaper than ramirez and likely put up a similar OPS. that's simple.

What do you base that on? The part about the similar OPS, that is.

 

Expecting a soon to be 37 year old centerfielder with massive injury concerns including head injuries to come back and improve upon his clearly declining numbers is a terrible way to go about offseason strategies.

[RichHillIsABeast]

but anyway, back to pitching. if we have to neglect the offense in order to field a good staff, i say do it. bring me two of zito, schmidt, matsuzaka, and mussina. let aram walk, play moore at third, sign edmonds.

 

That's a terrible idea.

 

Neglecting the offense is exactly why this team has struggled so much.

 

We don't have the money to put together an elite offense. OBP and SLG have become expensive.

 

There are other ways to win...e.g. the 2006 Oakland A's.

 

Pitching and defense really do matter.

[USSoccer]

but anyway, back to pitching. if we have to neglect the offense in order to field a good staff, i say do it. bring me two of zito, schmidt, matsuzaka, and mussina. let aram walk, play moore at third, sign edmonds.

 

That's a terrible idea.

 

Neglecting the offense is exactly why this team has struggled so much.

 

We don't have the money to put together an elite offense. OBP and SLG have become expensive.

 

There are other ways to win...e.g. the 2006 Oakland A's.

 

Pitching and defense really do matter.

 

We have enough money to improve both offensively and defensively, and to your point there aren't the pitchers out there to become an elite staff only. The best course of action would be to become better in both areas, and make sure you are balanced.

 

Resigning Ramirez, signing Soriano and exploring a trade for a better CF or RF isone way to make your offense better.

 

Pitchingwise, Zito and Schmidt aren't the end all, be all, but you can still get one of them, and combined with the above offense moves improve dramatically without busting the budget.

[goonys evil twin]

We don't have the money to put together an elite offense. OBP and SLG have become expensive.

 

There are other ways to win...e.g. the 2006 Oakland A's.

 

Pitching and defense really do matter.

 

We have enough money to improve both offensively and defensively, and to your point there aren't the pitchers out there to become an elite staff only. The best course of action would be to become better in both areas, and make sure you are balanced.

 

Resigning Ramirez, signing Soriano and exploring a trade for a better CF or RF isone way to make your offense better.

 

Pitchingwise, Zito and Schmidt aren't the end all, be all, but you can still get one of them, and combined with the above offense moves improve dramatically without busting the budget.

 

Who said elite? The Cubs should be a top 5 run scoring team and top 5 run preventing team in the NL every year. It's not smart to try and just build around pitching. If your pitching falters, you are screwed. Pitching is less reliable anyway. Great pitchers go down or disappoint with far more regularity than great hitters.

 

Improve the offense, improve the pitching. Try to avoid pathetic defenders, but don't focus on improving the defense.

[USSoccer]

We don't have the money to put together an elite offense. OBP and SLG have become expensive.

 

There are other ways to win...e.g. the 2006 Oakland A's.

 

Pitching and defense really do matter.

 

We have enough money to improve both offensively and defensively, and to your point there aren't the pitchers out there to become an elite staff only. The best course of action would be to become better in both areas, and make sure you are balanced.

 

Resigning Ramirez, signing Soriano and exploring a trade for a better CF or RF isone way to make your offense better.

 

Pitchingwise, Zito and Schmidt aren't the end all, be all, but you can still get one of them, and combined with the above offense moves improve dramatically without busting the budget.

 

Who said elite? The Cubs should be a top 5 run scoring team and top 5 run preventing team in the NL every year. It's not smart to try and just build around pitching. If your pitching falters, you are screwed. Pitching is less reliable anyway. Great pitchers go down or disappoint with far more regularity than great hitters.

 

Improve the offense, improve the pitching. Try to avoid pathetic defenders, but don't focus on improving the defense.

 

I agree. I was responding to the previous poster who said we didn't have enough money to be an elite offense, implying that we can become an elite pitching staff instead using money in the FA market.

 

There's no excuse to ignore offense for the sake of pitching. You need both to win.

[goonys evil twin]

I agree. I was responding to the previous poster who said we didn't have enough money to be an elite offense, implying that we can become an elite pitching staff instead using money in the FA market.

 

There's no excuse to ignore offense for the sake of pitching. You need both to win.

 

I agree, I was just quoting your quote of him so I wouldn't have to go back a page.

[USSoccer]

I agree. I was responding to the previous poster who said we didn't have enough money to be an elite offense, implying that we can become an elite pitching staff instead using money in the FA market.

 

There's no excuse to ignore offense for the sake of pitching. You need both to win.

 

I agree, I was just quoting your quote of him so I wouldn't have to go back a page.

 

Gotcha. So we're on the same page. :D

[RichHillIsABeast]

but anyway, back to pitching. if we have to neglect the offense in order to field a good staff, i say do it. bring me two of zito, schmidt, matsuzaka, and mussina. let aram walk, play moore at third, sign edmonds.

 

That's a terrible idea.

 

Neglecting the offense is exactly why this team has struggled so much.

 

We don't have the money to put together an elite offense. OBP and SLG have become expensive.

 

There are other ways to win...e.g. the 2006 Oakland A's.

 

Pitching and defense really do matter.

 

We have enough money to improve both offensively and defensively, and to your point there aren't the pitchers out there to become an elite staff only. The best course of action would be to become better in both areas, and make sure you are balanced.

 

Resigning Ramirez, signing Soriano and exploring a trade for a better CF or RF isone way to make your offense better.

 

Pitchingwise, Zito and Schmidt aren't the end all, be all, but you can still get one of them, and combined with the above offense moves improve dramatically without busting the budget.

 

I agree that we need to improve on both sides of the ball. I'm just saying that improving offensively to the point where we can overcome a barren rotation of Z/?/?/Hill/? isn't in the cards. The offensive talent isn't there.

 

We need another ace badly.

 

We're not going to sign two of the top tier FA this offseason. A lot of clubs have money to burn and better chances at the post-season. I'd be stunned if we signed one.

 

But, if we do sign one stud FA, it should be a pitcher. They have the most impact.

[USSoccer]

 

I agree that we need to improve on both sides of the ball. I'm just saying that improving offensively to the point where we can overcome a barren rotation of Z/?/?/Hill/? isn't in the cards. The offensive talent isn't there.

 

We need another ace badly.

 

We're not going to sign two of the top tier FA this offseason. A lot of clubs have money to burn and better chances at the post-season. I'd be stunned if we signed one.

 

But, if we do sign one stud FA, it should be a pitcher. They have the most impact.

 

I disagree. A hitter will play in 140-160 games. A pitcher will impact about 35. You go with the hitter.

 

As far as our rotation goes, keep in mind Mark Prior will likely be back and closer to his previous form than he was this year. Zambrano, Prior and Hill in no particular order is pretty decent. Finding 2 more starters shouldn't be that hard.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I agree. I was responding to the previous poster who said we didn't have enough money to be an elite offense, implying that we can become an elite pitching staff instead using money in the FA market.

 

There's no excuse to ignore offense for the sake of pitching. You need both to win.

 

I agree, I was just quoting your quote of him so I wouldn't have to go back a page.

 

Gotcha. So we're on the same page. :D

 

Boo.

[soccer10k]

 

I agree that we need to improve on both sides of the ball. I'm just saying that improving offensively to the point where we can overcome a barren rotation of Z/?/?/Hill/? isn't in the cards. The offensive talent isn't there.

 

We need another ace badly.

 

We're not going to sign two of the top tier FA this offseason. A lot of clubs have money to burn and better chances at the post-season. I'd be stunned if we signed one.

 

But, if we do sign one stud FA, it should be a pitcher. They have the most impact.

 

I disagree. A hitter will play in 140-160 games. A pitcher will impact about 35. You go with the hitter.

 

As far as our rotation goes, keep in mind Mark Prior will likely be back and closer to his previous form than he was this year. Zambrano, Prior and Hill in no particular order is pretty decent. Finding 2 more starters shouldn't be that hard.

 

Virtually anything from Prior next year would be better than what the Cubs got from him this year.

[CubsWin]

How about JD Drew?

 

He supposedly will be available this offseason.

CR, or anyone, what is the reasoning behind Drew being available? Does Colletti think he is too expensive to keep? If so, I'd swap Jones for Drew in a heartbeat though I don't know if Colletti would. That move would require the Cubs to acquire a really good 4th OFer for when Drew goes on the DL, but for the 400-500 ABs the Cubs will likely get out of him, it would be worth it.

 

Dellucci is a FA and would make an excellent 4th OFer. Aubrey Huff, Luis Gonzalez, Gary Matthews Jr., Trot Nixon, Craig Wilson among others are also possibilities, so if Dellucci doesn't want to come to Chicago, the Cubs would have plenty of other candidates from which to choose.

 

Drew would be an upgrade in OBP most certainly, but possibly not much of an upgrade in SLG which is why I think the main move the Cubs must make is acquiring Andruw Jones. The thing that is nice about Drew is that he is left-handed. And with Lee, Barrett, Ramirez (hopefully) and Murton the likely mainstays of the Cubs offense all being right-handed, any and all good left-handed bats would be welcome. The left-handed Felix Pie will help, but he really would benefit from another half season, at least, in AAA. And I would much rather have a lopsided line-up that can produce runs than a balanced one that can't.

[CuseCubFan69]

How about JD Drew?

 

He supposedly will be available this offseason.

CR, or anyone, what is the reasoning behind Drew being available? Does Colletti think he is too expensive to keep? If so, I'd swap Jones for Drew in a heartbeat though I don't know if Colletti would. That move would require the Cubs to acquire a really good 4th OFer for when Drew goes on the DL, but for the 400-500 ABs the Cubs will likely get out of him, it would be worth it.

 

Dellucci is a FA and would make an excellent 4th OFer. Aubrey Huff, Luis Gonzalez, Gary Matthews Jr., Trot Nixon, Craig Wilson among others are also possibilities, so if Dellucci doesn't want to come to Chicago, the Cubs would have plenty of other candidates from which to choose.

 

Drew would be an upgrade in OBP most certainly, but possibly not much of an upgrade in SLG which is why I think the main move the Cubs must make is acquiring Andruw Jones. The thing that is nice about Drew is that he is left-handed. And with Lee, Barrett, Ramirez (hopefully) and Murton the likely mainstays of the Cubs offense all being right-handed, any and all good left-handed bats would be welcome. The left-handed Felix Pie will help, but he really would benefit from another half season, at least, in AAA. And I would much rather have a lopsided line-up that can produce runs than a balanced one that can't.

 

If the Cubs have an OF of Murton, A.Jones and Drew...I think that would help with a possible struggling midde infield of Cedeno/Izturis and Theriot/Fontenot/Bynum.

 

If Theriot could somehow manage to hit 280/360 he could lead off but if he can't I'd be fine with a Murton, Drew, Lee, Ramirez, A.Jones, Barrett, Izturis, Theriot lineup.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

How about JD Drew?

 

He supposedly will be available this offseason.

CR, or anyone, what is the reasoning behind Drew being available? Does Colletti think he is too expensive to keep? If so, I'd swap Jones for Drew in a heartbeat though I don't know if Colletti would. That move would require the Cubs to acquire a really good 4th OFer for when Drew goes on the DL, but for the 400-500 ABs the Cubs will likely get out of him, it would be worth it.

 

Dellucci is a FA and would make an excellent 4th OFer. Aubrey Huff, Luis Gonzalez, Gary Matthews Jr., Trot Nixon, Craig Wilson among others are also possibilities, so if Dellucci doesn't want to come to Chicago, the Cubs would have plenty of other candidates from which to choose.

 

Drew would be an upgrade in OBP most certainly, but possibly not much of an upgrade in SLG which is why I think the main move the Cubs must make is acquiring Andruw Jones. The thing that is nice about Drew is that he is left-handed. And with Lee, Barrett, Ramirez (hopefully) and Murton the likely mainstays of the Cubs offense all being right-handed, any and all good left-handed bats would be welcome. The left-handed Felix Pie will help, but he really would benefit from another half season, at least, in AAA. And I would much rather have a lopsided line-up that can produce runs than a balanced one that can't.

 

Yes, salary concerns is the main reason.

 

I think Drew's SLG will go up once he leaves Dodger Stadium and the NL West (the same for Giles if he ever left Petco and the NL West).

[biittner77]

Drew would be an upgrade in OBP most certainly, but possibly not much of an upgrade in SLG which is why I think the main move the Cubs must make is acquiring Andruw Jones. The thing that is nice about Drew is that he is left-handed. And with Lee, Barrett, Ramirez (hopefully) and Murton the likely mainstays of the Cubs offense all being right-handed, any and all good left-handed bats would be welcome. The left-handed Felix Pie will help, but he really would benefit from another half season, at least, in AAA. And I would much rather have a lopsided line-up that can produce runs than a balanced one that can't.

 

He'd be a significant upgrade over Pierre slg % wise.

 

I agree with the 2nd part

[Magnetic Curses]

but anyway, back to pitching. if we have to neglect the offense in order to field a good staff, i say do it. bring me two of zito, schmidt, matsuzaka, and mussina. let aram walk, play moore at third, sign edmonds.

 

That's a terrible idea.

 

Neglecting the offense is exactly why this team has struggled so much.

 

We don't have the money to put together an elite offense. OBP and SLG have become expensive.

 

There are other ways to win...e.g. the 2006 Oakland A's.

 

Pitching and defense really do matter.

 

PITCHING matters, defense to a lesser extent. if the pitching is there, a bunch of below average fielders can get the job done.

 

and it's not just the oakland a's who have had success with building a team around pitching. like i said, pretty much any world series contender has pitching.

 

imo, USSoccer, simply adding vicente padilla is not going to do it for this staff.

[Magnetic Curses]

We don't have the money to put together an elite offense. OBP and SLG have become expensive.

 

There are other ways to win...e.g. the 2006 Oakland A's.

 

Pitching and defense really do matter.

 

We have enough money to improve both offensively and defensively, and to your point there aren't the pitchers out there to become an elite staff only. The best course of action would be to become better in both areas, and make sure you are balanced.

 

Resigning Ramirez, signing Soriano and exploring a trade for a better CF or RF isone way to make your offense better.

 

Pitchingwise, Zito and Schmidt aren't the end all, be all, but you can still get one of them, and combined with the above offense moves improve dramatically without busting the budget.

 

Who said elite? The Cubs should be a top 5 run scoring team and top 5 run preventing team in the NL every year. It's not smart to try and just build around pitching. If your pitching falters, you are screwed. Pitching is less reliable anyway. Great pitchers go down or disappoint with far more regularity than great hitters.

 

Improve the offense, improve the pitching. Try to avoid pathetic defenders, but don't focus on improving the defense.

 

improve the pitching, how? how else are we going to improve the pitching significantly? by adding lilly? padilla? some other pitcher with a perpetual + 4.50 era?

 

in order to significantly upgrade the pitching, and i mean to championship level, not just (and you'll love this one, goony) "competing within the division" level, we need to add TWO top of the rotation pitchers, TWO.

 

there are 4 FA pitchers that i'd be okay with, i've posted the list.

 

Zito

Schmidt

Matsuzaka

Mussina

 

get two of them and the cubs have a chance to win the world series NEXT year, with or without a top 5 offense.