Are the Cubs really going to consider resigning Pierre?

[CubsWin]

I'm really hoping Hendry has his sights set on trading for Andruw Jones.

As am I. There's that word again...hope.

 

I certainly don't want Pierre back. The only reason to have him on your team is because he can supposedly fill the lead-off hitter role of getting on base and stealing 2nd. But he can't even do it that well anymore. I believe the Cubs already have a guy on the roster that can lead-off better than Pierre can, Ryan Theriot.

 

I don't know if Soriano can play CF well enough to justify his bat, but if he can, I would go strong after him. But trading for Jones is still my first choice. With an high-OPS type bat in CF (and one that can move over to right when Pie is ready), the Cubs can easily afford the weak OPS bat of Theriot at the top of the line-up.

 

His numbers since being called up are clearly unsustainable and flukish, but he has the sufficient history to realistically put up a .350 OBP with 20-30 SBs and solid defense at 2B for the league minimum. I don't know if any of the FA secondbasemen can beat that, especially when the Cubs are looking at acquiring an expensive bat and an expensive arm this off season. Throw in the likelihood of having to resign Aramis and the need to find a cheap but effective lead-off hitter gets even greater.

 

Isn't it nice for once to already have that guy on the roster?

 

Of course, if the Cubs do resign Pierre, then they can't afford the low-OPS of Theriot's bat and would have to spend more money to get one of the FA 2B. It simply doesn't make any sense. Let Pierre go, Jim.

[A New Era]

At this point, I'd rather see Pie than Pierre. And I was a big Pierre supporter. It's mainly the money, sure he'd be an OK CF if he was $3-$4 mil. Not what he's gonna get though. .

[ZFan38]

You need to try to get Vernon Wells. He is the perfect solution, not only for next year but for the future. He will be 28 when the season begins next year. He should have 3-5 more exceptional years left.

 

The only question is what will it take to get Wells? For that matter whta would it take to get Andruw Jones?

 

If they want too much we may have to look at someone like Mike Cameron to play center.

 

Have you seen Wells's stats? Fluke season alert.

 

He's no fluke, this isn't even his best year. He's also a Gold Glover in center field. He only makes around 6 million next year but its well known that he wants to play in Texas after his current contract expires so unless the Cubs signed him long term I wouldn't want him.

[Outshined_One]

Wells get a bit too much hype because of his RBIs. His base numbers are pretty good, but nothing particularly spectacular.

 

This season: .305/.358/.547

Past three seasons:.288/.339/.498

Career: .288/.336/.493

 

I think the Blue Jays are going to hold some one hostage for him. I don't think he'd be worth giving up a boatload of prospects over, especially if he just ends up being a one year rental.

 

He'd be a step up in CF, but I don't know if you could justify giving up a package of top prospects for him. I'd imagine Andruw Jones could be had for cheaper given his down year.

[CubsWin]

At this point, I'd rather see Pie than Pierre. And I was a big Pierre supporter. It's mainly the money, sure he'd be an OK CF if he was $3-$4 mil. Not what he's gonna get though. .

I agree that Pie would be a better option than Pierre at this point, but ideally, I don't want Pie in a Cubs uniform at the start of next season. It would be rushing him.

 

The ideal move would be to have the Cubs get a CFer that can put up a good OPS, play solid defense and can move over to RF when Pie is ready and have Theriot lead-off next season. Someone like Andruw Jones, Vernon Wells or possibly Soriano would fit that bill. I'm just not sure Soriano can play center defensively, or right, for that matter. Is there anyway to adequately predict his ability in those fields without him having played there before? Or is he simply a LFer and a really bad 2B?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

L+O+F+T+O+N = Much, much better option than what we had and would probably take the hometown discount to finish his career waiting for Pie to be ready.

[A New Era]

L+O+F+T+O+N = Much, much better option than what we had and would probably take the hometown discount to finish his career waiting for Pie to be ready.

 

Agree. We should have gotten Lofton, LAST year. And I think alot of us agree with this.

[RichHillIsABeast]

At this point, I'd rather see Pie than Pierre. And I was a big Pierre supporter. It's mainly the money, sure he'd be an OK CF if he was $3-$4 mil. Not what he's gonna get though. .

I agree that Pie would be a better option than Pierre at this point, but ideally, I don't want Pie in a Cubs uniform at the start of next season. It would be rushing him.

 

The ideal move would be to have the Cubs get a CFer that can put up a good OPS, play solid defense and can move over to RF when Pie is ready and have Theriot lead-off next season. Someone like Andruw Jones, Vernon Wells or possibly Soriano would fit that bill. I'm just not sure Soriano can play center defensively, or right, for that matter. Is there anyway to adequately predict his ability in those fields without him having played there before? Or is he simply a LFer and a really bad 2B?

 

You're not going to "accurately" predict a move like that, but Soriano is average in LF right now. Assists and whatnot don't matter as everyone is testing him right now. He's got a decent arm, which surprised me. His throwing motion is ok and his release point is consistent, which blew me away. I thought he'd tank in LF b/c of the different throwing styles from 2B to the OF. His reads off the bat leave a little to be desired, but he's defiinitely improved over the course of this season. Another full season in the OF and he's well above average, especially in range.

 

Stick him in CF after he's improved, and he's average to below average, but certainly not a butcher. He'll never be a gold glover in CF, but he'd be adequate. He's not Adam Dunn defensively.

 

The problem is sticking Murton in LF and Jones in RF, who don't have above average range. We're going to give up a lot of doubles into the gaps.

 

Murton is a great fielder with the stuff he can get to, but he has average range at best. Jones...is overrated defensively. OK range, horrible accuracy with his throws with ok arm strength for RF.

 

Soriano doesn't have the arm strength for RF.

 

Pie is a real problem. He should be a cheap producer in CF. Anywhere else he's a waste and the RF pickings are slim.

[CubsWin]

L+O+F+T+O+N = Much, much better option than what we had and would probably take the hometown discount to finish his career waiting for Pie to be ready.

 

Agree. We should have gotten Lofton, LAST year. And I think alot of us agree with this.

I agree. I was one of those guys who wanted Lofton...last year.

 

But the problem now is the Cubs ideally need another big bat in the line-up and what position should that big bat fill? To me, the obvious choice is CF and Lofton is not a big bat. He is purely a lead-off guy, and the Cubs already have a pretty good one under contract in Theriot.

 

You could try to upgrade offensively at SS or 2B, but the options there are either less realistic (ARod) or not a big OPS type hitter (Giles, Loretta, Durham, etc.) which is what the Cubs line-up really needs. I don't know how realistic trading for Andruw Jones is at this point, but it has to be more attainable than trading for ARod.

 

Getting high OPS out of the CF position is the Cubs best option and should be plan A going into the off season.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The Cubs need a bat. There's doubts as to whether Soriano can handle CF. We do know he can play 2b. If the Cubs cannot trade for A. Jones, then they really have to get Soriano and pencil him in at second. They can then sign Dave Roberts, Lofton, or let Pie play CF.

 

If the Cubs end up with Jones, then they have a number of options for secondbase, the best of which is probably signing Durham.

[Backtobanks]

The Cubs need a bat. There's doubts as to whether Soriano can handle CF. We do know he can play 2b. If the Cubs cannot trade for A. Jones, then they really have to get Soriano and pencil him in at second. They can then sign Dave Roberts, Lofton, or let Pie play CF.

 

If the Cubs end up with Jones, then they have a number of options for secondbase, the best of which is probably signing Durham.

 

There may be doubts about him playing CF, but there aren't any doubts about his ability to play 2B.....he's terrible. Considering the fact that he did okay in LF, I might think his defense in CF can't be much worse than his defense at 2B.

[RichHillIsABeast]

The Cubs need a bat. There's doubts as to whether Soriano can handle CF. We do know he can play 2b. If the Cubs cannot trade for A. Jones, then they really have to get Soriano and pencil him in at second. They can then sign Dave Roberts, Lofton, or let Pie play CF.

 

If the Cubs end up with Jones, then they have a number of options for secondbase, the best of which is probably signing Durham.

 

There may be doubts about him playing CF, but there aren't any doubts about his ability to play 2B.....he's terrible. Considering the fact that he did okay in LF, I might think his defense in CF can't be much worse than his defense at 2B.

 

:lol: I agree.

[Guest]

The Cubs need a bat. There's doubts as to whether Soriano can handle CF. We do know he can play 2b. If the Cubs cannot trade for A. Jones, then they really have to get Soriano and pencil him in at second. They can then sign Dave Roberts, Lofton, or let Pie play CF.

 

If the Cubs end up with Jones, then they have a number of options for secondbase, the best of which is probably signing Durham.

 

There may be doubts about him playing CF, but there aren't any doubts about his ability to play 2B.....he's terrible. Considering the fact that he did okay in LF, I might think his defense in CF can't be much worse than his defense at 2B.

 

 

:lol: I agree.

 

how is his defense in LF? I think he can play CF because he has the tools and judging the ball in CF is slightly easier than LF in my experience. I guess the question becomes twofold: 1. where will his defense cost the cubs fewer runs and 2. what are the alternatives at each position. I see some good alternatives at 2b but very few at CF.

[badger1679666666]

Of COURSE they are going to resign him.

 

He's almost got 200 HITS!!!!!! He's amazing. 200 HITS!!!!! in er, 660 AB's..

 

Baker said he wanted 9 Pierre's on his team. Now THAT's a ringing endorsement.

[daske17]

Of COURSE they are going to resign him.

 

He's almost got 200 HITS!!!!!! He's amazing. 200 HITS!!!!! in er, 660 AB's..

 

Baker said he wanted 9 Pierre's on his team. Now THAT's a ringing endorsement.

 

yeah, Baker wants 9 Pierre's on his team and 5 Rusch's in his rotation. World Series here we come!

[rawaction]

The Cubs need a bat. There's doubts as to whether Soriano can handle CF. We do know he can play 2b. If the Cubs cannot trade for A. Jones, then they really have to get Soriano and pencil him in at second. They can then sign Dave Roberts, Lofton, or let Pie play CF.

 

If the Cubs end up with Jones, then they have a number of options for secondbase, the best of which is probably signing Durham.

 

There may be doubts about him playing CF, but there aren't any doubts about his ability to play 2B.....he's terrible. Considering the fact that he did okay in LF, I might think his defense in CF can't be much worse than his defense at 2B.

 

 

:lol: I agree.

 

how is his defense in LF? I think he can play CF because he has the tools and judging the ball in CF is slightly easier than LF in my experience. I guess the question becomes twofold: 1. where will his defense cost the cubs fewer runs and 2. what are the alternatives at each position. I see some good alternatives at 2b but very few at CF.

 

I hated LF. CF was much easier, unless the ball was hit right at you.

[Jehrico]

Pie will play CF for the Cubs next year. We won't have the money to re-sign Pierre after extending Aramis, signing Soriano for 2B, and trading for ARod to play SS.

 

The Angels have expressed interest in A-Rod. The asking price is assumed to be Ervin Santana, Scot Shields, Chone Figgins and a top prospect.

 

What can the Cubs offer that would closely resemble the talent the Angels would need to give up for A-Rod?

The conversation would probably have to include Zambrano, which would immediately kill the deal for me. I could handle a package of Hill, Howry, Moore (or better yet, Izturis), and Pie for ARod, but I don't think that would be as enticing as the Angels package. On the other hand, I doubt the Angels would make that deal, so I don't know if we'd be competing against such a strong package.

 

And why would the Yankees trade a franchise player for 3 relative unknowns and an old reliever? The Angels package looks much better.

pure speculation, but I don't think tha Halos do that deal, so I don't think that is a package we have to compete with. We view ARod as a franchise player, but they sure don't act as if he is in NY. As far as the part about the aging reliever, since when has age ever scared the Yanks? They did want Howry last year...

[frostwyrm]

Pierre: 32 walks in 720 PA. His BB/PA peaked at .075 in 2003 and has steadily declined since, it's at .045 for 2006. This is yet another thing that makes Pierre dependent on speed. If he loses a step he couldn't even play for a decent college team.

[Backtobanks]

Pie will play CF for the Cubs next year. We won't have the money to re-sign Pierre after extending Aramis, signing Soriano for 2B, and trading for ARod to play SS.

 

The Angels have expressed interest in A-Rod. The asking price is assumed to be Ervin Santana, Scot Shields, Chone Figgins and a top prospect.

 

What can the Cubs offer that would closely resemble the talent the Angels would need to give up for A-Rod?

The conversation would probably have to include Zambrano, which would immediately kill the deal for me. I could handle a package of Hill, Howry, Moore (or better yet, Izturis), and Pie for ARod, but I don't think that would be as enticing as the Angels package. On the other hand, I doubt the Angels would make that deal, so I don't know if we'd be competing against such a strong package.

 

And why would the Yankees trade a franchise player for 3 relative unknowns and an old reliever? The Angels package looks much better.

pure speculation, but I don't think tha Halos do that deal, so I don't think that is a package we have to compete with. We view ARod as a franchise player, but they sure don't act as if he is in NY. As far as the part about the aging reliever, since when has age ever scared the Yanks? They did want Howry last year...

 

Let's hope the Angels do make that deal because that would reduce the number of suitors for ARam.

[Jehrico]

Pie will play CF for the Cubs next year. We won't have the money to re-sign Pierre after extending Aramis, signing Soriano for 2B, and trading for ARod to play SS.

 

The Angels have expressed interest in A-Rod. The asking price is assumed to be Ervin Santana, Scot Shields, Chone Figgins and a top prospect.

 

What can the Cubs offer that would closely resemble the talent the Angels would need to give up for A-Rod?

The conversation would probably have to include Zambrano, which would immediately kill the deal for me. I could handle a package of Hill, Howry, Moore (or better yet, Izturis), and Pie for ARod, but I don't think that would be as enticing as the Angels package. On the other hand, I doubt the Angels would make that deal, so I don't know if we'd be competing against such a strong package.

 

And why would the Yankees trade a franchise player for 3 relative unknowns and an old reliever? The Angels package looks much better.

pure speculation, but I don't think tha Halos do that deal, so I don't think that is a package we have to compete with. We view ARod as a franchise player, but they sure don't act as if he is in NY. As far as the part about the aging reliever, since when has age ever scared the Yanks? They did want Howry last year...

 

Let's hope the Angels do make that deal because that would reduce the number of suitors for ARam.

Not really. If they get ARod, then the Yanks need a 3b instead, and the Halos will certainly deal Figgins to someone that needs a 3b. If Figgins goes to the Yanks, then whoever could have traded for him if he stayed in LA still needs a 3B instead of the Yanks.

 

My guess is even if the Yanks got Figgins in the deal, they'd still go after ARam if he's available, then use Figgins in a package for some pitching. So even if they make that trade, the suiter would just change from LA to NYY, which is worse, IMO.

Edited September 25, 2006 by Jehrico

[mg420]

Pierre: 32 walks in 720 PA. His BB/PA peaked at .075 in 2003 and has steadily declined since, it's at .045 for 2006. This is yet another thing that makes Pierre dependent on speed. If he loses a step he couldn't even play for a decent college team.

 

right. loss of a step in speed = going from hitting .290 in the majors to not being able to hit in college with an aluminum bat. that statement makes a whole lot of sense.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Pierre: 32 walks in 720 PA. His BB/PA peaked at .075 in 2003 and has steadily declined since, it's at .045 for 2006. This is yet another thing that makes Pierre dependent on speed. If he loses a step he couldn't even play for a decent college team.

 

right. loss of a step in speed = going from hitting .290 in the majors to not being able to hit in college with an aluminum bat. that statement makes a whole lot of sense.

 

How many infield hits does the guy get? He loses that step and he loses a lot of hits. Seems sensible to me.

[frostwyrm]

Pierre: 32 walks in 720 PA. His BB/PA peaked at .075 in 2003 and has steadily declined since, it's at .045 for 2006. This is yet another thing that makes Pierre dependent on speed. If he loses a step he couldn't even play for a decent college team.

 

right. loss of a step in speed = going from hitting .290 in the majors to not being able to hit in college with an aluminum bat. that statement makes a whole lot of sense.

 

How many infield hits does the guy get? He loses that step and he loses a lot of hits. Seems sensible to me.

And you'd have to put him at a corner OF position, where his offense would be pathetic.

[David]

Pierre: 32 walks in 720 PA. His BB/PA peaked at .075 in 2003 and has steadily declined since, it's at .045 for 2006. This is yet another thing that makes Pierre dependent on speed. If he loses a step he couldn't even play for a decent college team.

 

right. loss of a step in speed = going from hitting .290 in the majors to not being able to hit in college with an aluminum bat. that statement makes a whole lot of sense.

 

How many infield hits does the guy get? He loses that step and he loses a lot of hits. Seems sensible to me.

 

QFT

[C.C.]

GOOD NEWS! Pierre said he'd love to play for Ozzie!

 

''Yeah, I love Ozzie,'' Pierre said of Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, his former third-base coach during the Florida Marlins' World Series championship season in 2003. ''I know how he is as a person. He talks, but you go out there and play hard with no excuses, and you get along with him. Just knowing him and being around him for so long, and winning the World Series with him, yeah, I definitely wouldn't mind playing for Ozzie.''

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/72254,CST-SPT-deluca26.article