Mock Headline

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Maybe Miller can give you the same type of production, but it's not very likely.

 

I wonder if Hendry sees Zambrano, Hill and Miller as his 1,3, and 5. If so, might Padilla and Lilly be candidates for 2 and 4?

 

do you really think Hendry would leave no room for Marshall, Marmol, Guzman, or Mateo?

 

 

Where does Prior fit?

[goonys evil twin]

Maybe Miller can give you the same type of production, but it's not very likely.

 

I wonder if Hendry sees Zambrano, Hill and Miller as his 1,3, and 5. If so, might Padilla and Lilly be candidates for 2 and 4?

 

do you really think Hendry would leave no room for Marshall, Marmol, Guzman, or Mateo?

 

 

Where does Prior fit?

 

It's not like any of those 4 have shown they are able to be counted on next year. I think going with Miller as the 5 would be a de facto spot for the kids to find space.

 

 

As for Prior, I'm really interested in what Hendry thinks of him right now. I think there's a chance Jim questions his toughness, and somewhat blames him for making Hendry's brilliant plan look bad. And I would not be surprised if he goes into next year with 5 starters other than Prior, and forces Prior to earn his way past one of those starters.

[CubinNY]

Maybe Miller can give you the same type of production, but it's not very likely.

 

I wonder if Hendry sees Zambrano, Hill and Miller as his 1,3, and 5. If so, might Padilla and Lilly be candidates for 2 and 4?

 

do you really think Hendry would leave no room for Marshall, Marmol, Guzman, or Mateo?

 

 

Where does Prior fit?

 

It's not like any of those 4 have shown they are able to be counted on next year. I think going with Miller as the 5 would be a de facto spot for the kids to find space.

 

 

As for Prior, I'm really interested in what Hendry thinks of him right now. I think there's a chance Jim questions his toughness, and somewhat blames him for making Hendry's brilliant plan look bad. And I would not be surprised if he goes into next year with 5 starters other than Prior, and forces Prior to earn his way past one of those starters.

 

I wouldn't be surprized either. If Prior wasn't injured for most of the year I wouldn't be shocked if Prior were traded this offseason.

[Guest]

Hudson's 2006 looks pretty fluky. Compared to 2005, he has a very similar batting line against, a similar K rate and walk rate, a simlar FIP, and his batted balls aren't much different. However, this is the second year he's been worse than his time in Oakland, coinciding with his move to the NL. So I don't think his 2006 performance is here to stay(ERA and WHIP-wise at least), but I don't think you see him return to his AL levels.

 

Since 03, Hudson has become MORE hittable, he gives more walks, he strikes out few and few. In other words....as of 2006, Tim Hudson is a VERY MEDIOCRE #2 pitcher, and more likely at this stage is closer to being a #4 pitcher, then a #2. Wade Miller can give same type of production at a fraction of the cost. So unless ATL is willing to eat over 60% of Hudson's contract, I wouldn't even talk about trying to get Hudson.

 

That's just not true. 2003 was a career year for Hudson, using that going forward as a comparison to show a decline is pretty deceiving. His K's have stayed similar, his walks have stayed similar since coming to the NL, and his BAA has been similar. His peripherals show his 2006 ERA and WHIP are pretty unlikely to repeat, that he's more than a 4 starter, and that he's most certainly better than Wade Miller.

The move to the NL has masked a bigger decline in the numbers since any pitcher should get an increase in K's and a decrease in other numbers when moving to the NL and facing pitchers in around 5-9% of at bats.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Hudson's 2006 looks pretty fluky. Compared to 2005, he has a very similar batting line against, a similar K rate and walk rate, a simlar FIP, and his batted balls aren't much different. However, this is the second year he's been worse than his time in Oakland, coinciding with his move to the NL. So I don't think his 2006 performance is here to stay(ERA and WHIP-wise at least), but I don't think you see him return to his AL levels.

 

Since 03, Hudson has become MORE hittable, he gives more walks, he strikes out few and few. In other words....as of 2006, Tim Hudson is a VERY MEDIOCRE #2 pitcher, and more likely at this stage is closer to being a #4 pitcher, then a #2. Wade Miller can give same type of production at a fraction of the cost. So unless ATL is willing to eat over 60% of Hudson's contract, I wouldn't even talk about trying to get Hudson.

 

That's just not true. 2003 was a career year for Hudson, using that going forward as a comparison to show a decline is pretty deceiving. His K's have stayed similar, his walks have stayed similar since coming to the NL, and his BAA has been similar. His peripherals show his 2006 ERA and WHIP are pretty unlikely to repeat, that he's more than a 4 starter, and that he's most certainly better than Wade Miller.

The move to the NL has masked a bigger decline in the numbers since any pitcher should get an increase in K's and a decrease in other numbers when moving to the NL and facing pitchers in around 5-9% of at bats.

 

Point is that since he's gone to the NL his peripherals haven't declined from year 1 to year 2. I'm not saying that 2006 is a fluke in that he's going to return to his top form from Oakland, I'm saying you're more likely to see the ERA and WHIP return to '05 performance than this year going forward.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Hudson's 2006 looks pretty fluky. Compared to 2005, he has a very similar batting line against, a similar K rate and walk rate, a simlar FIP, and his batted balls aren't much different. However, this is the second year he's been worse than his time in Oakland, coinciding with his move to the NL. So I don't think his 2006 performance is here to stay(ERA and WHIP-wise at least), but I don't think you see him return to his AL levels.

 

Since 03, Hudson has become MORE hittable, he gives more walks, he strikes out few and few. In other words....as of 2006, Tim Hudson is a VERY MEDIOCRE #2 pitcher, and more likely at this stage is closer to being a #4 pitcher, then a #2. Wade Miller can give same type of production at a fraction of the cost. So unless ATL is willing to eat over 60% of Hudson's contract, I wouldn't even talk about trying to get Hudson.

 

That's just not true. 2003 was a career year for Hudson, using that going forward as a comparison to show a decline is pretty deceiving. His K's have stayed similar, his walks have stayed similar since coming to the NL, and his BAA has been similar. His peripherals show his 2006 ERA and WHIP are pretty unlikely to repeat, that he's more than a 4 starter, and that he's most certainly better than Wade Miller.

 

No matter how you spin it, Tim Hudson at this stage of ihs career is more of a 5-8 million dollar pitcher, NOT an $11 million dollar pitcher. So if the Cubs are interested in Hudson, ATL has to eat alot of money. I would rather just sign Jason Schmidt.

[goonys evil twin]

Hudson's 2006 looks pretty fluky. Compared to 2005, he has a very similar batting line against, a similar K rate and walk rate, a simlar FIP, and his batted balls aren't much different. However, this is the second year he's been worse than his time in Oakland, coinciding with his move to the NL. So I don't think his 2006 performance is here to stay(ERA and WHIP-wise at least), but I don't think you see him return to his AL levels.

 

Since 03, Hudson has become MORE hittable, he gives more walks, he strikes out few and few. In other words....as of 2006, Tim Hudson is a VERY MEDIOCRE #2 pitcher, and more likely at this stage is closer to being a #4 pitcher, then a #2. Wade Miller can give same type of production at a fraction of the cost. So unless ATL is willing to eat over 60% of Hudson's contract, I wouldn't even talk about trying to get Hudson.

 

That's just not true. 2003 was a career year for Hudson, using that going forward as a comparison to show a decline is pretty deceiving. His K's have stayed similar, his walks have stayed similar since coming to the NL, and his BAA has been similar. His peripherals show his 2006 ERA and WHIP are pretty unlikely to repeat, that he's more than a 4 starter, and that he's most certainly better than Wade Miller.

 

No matter how you spin it, Tim Hudson at this stage of ihs career is more of a 5-8 million dollar pitcher, NOT an $11 million dollar pitcher. So if the Cubs are interested in Hudson, ATL has to eat alot of money. I would rather just sign Jason Schmidt.

 

I think the spin is that you'd take on Hudson in an effort to get Jones. That improves the pitching staff and lineup. Signing Schmidt doesn't help as much.

[TruffleShuffle]

I would rather just sign Jason Schmidt.

 

The usage pattern of Schmidt really concerns me. He threw 115+ pitches in three consectutive starts - in April - and then had four 120+ pitch outings in May and June. His ERA in the first half of the year was 2.78 and is 4.67 since the ASB, and he has been much more hittable. In 2004, he averaged over 115 pitches after three early-season starts in which he was coming back from an elbow injury. He's 4th in Pitcher Abuse Points, and I have to think that he was close to the most abused pitcher in 2003, 2004 and 2005. Felipe Alou has not been kind to him, and I really would worry about how much mileage Schmidt has left in that arm.

[HoopsCubs]

No matter how you spin it, Tim Hudson at this stage of ihs career is more of a 5-8 million dollar pitcher, NOT an $11 million dollar pitcher. So if the Cubs are interested in Hudson, ATL has to eat alot of money. I would rather just sign Jason Schmidt.

 

I think many of us are agreeing that Hudson may not be worth $11M a year, which is why I put the $11M cash clause in the mock deal. Hudson is due to make $6M in 2007, $13M in 2008, $13M in 2009 and $1M buyout in 2010. If the Braves gave the Cubs $5M cash in 2008 and $6M in 2009, the Cubs would owe Hudson $6M in '07, $8M in '08 and $8M in '09. Plus, they get Jones to play CF in 2007 (and maybe beyond). It's a great deal for the Cubs, and a huge salary relief for Atlanta if they want to re-build or re-load. Again, just attempting to think outside the box and improve the offense and rotation simultaneously.

[NorthsideAvenger]

No matter how you spin it, Tim Hudson at this stage of ihs career is more of a 5-8 million dollar pitcher, NOT an $11 million dollar pitcher. So if the Cubs are interested in Hudson, ATL has to eat alot of money. I would rather just sign Jason Schmidt.

 

I think many of us are agreeing that Hudson may not be worth $11M a year, which is why I put the $11M cash clause in the mock deal. Hudson is due to make $6M in 2007, $13M in 2008, $13M in 2009 and $1M buyout in 2010. If the Braves gave the Cubs $5M cash in 2008 and $6M in 2009, the Cubs would owe Hudson $6M in '07, $8M in '08 and $8M in '09. Plus, they get Jones to play CF in 2007 (and maybe beyond). It's a great deal for the Cubs, and a huge salary relief for Atlanta if they want to re-build or re-load. Again, just attempting to think outside the box and improve the offense and rotation simultaneously.

 

If Hudson/Jones require giving up a prospect like Veal/Gallagher/Pawelek/etc, etc, I don't see the upside of getting Hudson/Jones. Now if the Cubs could get them with kids like Mateo/Johnson/ and maybe Marshall, fine...

[HoopsCubs]

Chicago - In an early offseason move that could surely shake up the NL Central in 2007 and years to come, the Chicago Cubs traded their highly touted franchise prospect, OF Felix Pie, and promising pitchers Sean Marshall and Carlos Marmol to the Atlanta Braves for CF Andruw Jones and starting pitcher Tim Hudson. In addition to the players, the Braves agreed to send the Cubs $11M in cash ($5M in 2008 and $6M in 2009) to help with Hudson's contract.

 

Thinking about this idea some more and reading some of the stuff you folks have written about Jacque Jones and the thought that he may want out of Chicago, one variation on this mock deal is to add Jacque and remove the clause requiring the Braves to send $11M in cash (coincidentally that's exactly what Jones will be paid in the next 2 seasons).

 

So the modified trade would be:

 

Cubs send Jacque Jones, Felix Pie, Sean Marshall and Carlos Marmol

Braves send Andruw Jones and Tim Hudson

No cash trades hands

 

Jacque would play either LF or RF depending on whether the Braves decide to trade Langerhans or Francoeur (it appears they will trade one this offseason).

 

Braves would now save $14M in 2007, $7M in 2008 and $13M in 2009.

 

Cubs would now have an opportunity to find a better player for RF.

 

 

Hoops

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Chicago - In an early offseason move that could surely shake up the NL Central in 2007 and years to come, the Chicago Cubs traded their highly touted franchise prospect, OF Felix Pie, and promising pitchers Sean Marshall and Carlos Marmol to the Atlanta Braves for CF Andruw Jones and starting pitcher Tim Hudson. In addition to the players, the Braves agreed to send the Cubs $11M in cash ($5M in 2008 and $6M in 2009) to help with Hudson's contract.

 

Thinking about this idea some more and reading some of the stuff you folks have written about Jacque Jones and the thought that he may want out of Chicago, one variation on this mock deal is to add Jacque and remove the clause requiring the Braves to send $11M in cash (coincidentally that's exactly what Jones will be paid in the next 2 seasons).

 

So the modified trade would be:

 

Cubs send Jacque Jones, Felix Pie, Sean Marshall and Carlos Marmol

Braves send Andruw Jones and Tim Hudson

No cash trades hands

 

Jacque would play either LF or RF depending on whether the Braves decide to trade Langerhans or Francoeur (it appears they will trade one this offseason).

 

Braves would now save $14M in 2007, $7M in 2008 and $13M in 2009.

 

Cubs would now have an opportunity to find a better player for RF.

 

 

Hoops

 

If that worked out, I think the Cubs could sign Sheffield if his option is declined.

 

Potential line-up:

 

2b Theriot

LF Murton

1b Lee

3b Ramirez

CF Jones

RF Sheffield

C Barrett

SS Izturis

 

That's not a bad line-up.

 

Our rotation would be Zambrano, Hudson, Prior, Hill and Mateo/Guzman/Ryu or a FA signing.

 

It's not a bad team.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

If that worked out, I think the Cubs could sign Sheffield if his option is declined.

 

Potential line-up:

 

2b Theriot

LF Murton

1b Lee

3b Ramirez

CF Jones

RF Sheffield

C Barrett

SS Izturis

 

That's not a bad line-up.

 

Our rotation would be Zambrano, Hudson, Prior, Hill and Mateo/Guzman/Ryu or a FA signing.

 

It's not a bad team.

 

You had me until the 8th spot. I keep forgetting he's still with the team.

[soccer10k]

Do the Braves really want to dump that much salary? I do realize this is a hypothetical situation but that would be one hell of a salary dump.

[Backtobanks]

If that worked out, I think the Cubs could sign Sheffield if his option is declined.

 

Potential line-up:

 

2b Theriot

LF Murton

1b Lee

3b Ramirez

CF Jones

RF Sheffield

C Barrett

SS Izturis

 

That's not a bad line-up.

 

Our rotation would be Zambrano, Hudson, Prior, Hill and Mateo/Guzman/Ryu or a FA signing.

 

It's not a bad team.

 

You had me until the 8th spot. I keep forgetting he's still with the team.

 

Unfortunately he is.

[CubFanPhilly]

Do the Braves really want to dump that much salary? I do realize this is a hypothetical situation but that would be one hell of a salary dump.

 

Their payroll was $90 mil. and is due to increase $6 mil. before considering raises to Giles, Reitsma, and H. Ramirez. They probably have to move at least one big contract.