Upgrading in LF?

[Magnetic Curses]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

 

Pie and Veal are probably in the top 50 of all of baseball after this season.

 

yep, and that package could be easily beaten.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Which means there are plenty of teams with more highly thought of prospects to offer up in trade.

 

No it doesn't. Some systems that are loaded can, but the Cubs are not devoid of high end talent.

 

 

The Marlins need position prospects more than pitching prospects. Pie isn't an elite prospect, especially after this season's meh showing. They're not going to take pitching prospects from us and then swap them for position prospects, so we're pretty much out of the Cabrera bidding from the start.

 

Do you think if they trade Cabrera they're going to get a package of all position players? Pie is still a stellar prospect, one of the best in the game. His improvement through the season is anything but meh.

[Magnetic Curses]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

I disagree, we actually are lucky that we kept drafting pitchers. I would think most teams would be interested in Gallagher, Veal, and Pawelek. That and with the guys in front of Pie getting the call I would say he might be top 20 in all of baseball.

 

last time i heard, pawelek was pitching out of the bullpen.

[illiniguy]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

 

Pie and Veal are probably in the top 50 of all of baseball after this season.

 

yep, and that package could be easily beaten.

by whom?

[illiniguy]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

I disagree, we actually are lucky that we kept drafting pitchers. I would think most teams would be interested in Gallagher, Veal, and Pawelek. That and with the guys in front of Pie getting the call I would say he might be top 20 in all of baseball.

 

last time i heard, pawelek was pitching out of the bullpen.

You heard wrong.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

 

Pie and Veal are probably in the top 50 of all of baseball after this season.

 

yep, and that package could be easily beaten.

 

Sure, that doesn't mean the prospects aren't there though.

[Magnetic Curses]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

 

Pie and Veal are probably in the top 50 of all of baseball after this season.

 

yep, and that package could be easily beaten.

 

Sure, that doesn't mean the prospects aren't there though.

 

i said "virtually". :wink:

[Magnetic Curses]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

I disagree, we actually are lucky that we kept drafting pitchers. I would think most teams would be interested in Gallagher, Veal, and Pawelek. That and with the guys in front of Pie getting the call I would say he might be top 20 in all of baseball.

 

last time i heard, pawelek was pitching out of the bullpen.

You heard wrong.

 

no, i didn't.

[illiniguy]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

I disagree, we actually are lucky that we kept drafting pitchers. I would think most teams would be interested in Gallagher, Veal, and Pawelek. That and with the guys in front of Pie getting the call I would say he might be top 20 in all of baseball.

 

last time i heard, pawelek was pitching out of the bullpen.

You heard wrong.

 

no, i didn't.

He just started game one of their playoff series and pitched great, his best outing as a pro. If that is out of the bullpen some of our starters should try it.

[Magnetic Curses]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

I disagree, we actually are lucky that we kept drafting pitchers. I would think most teams would be interested in Gallagher, Veal, and Pawelek. That and with the guys in front of Pie getting the call I would say he might be top 20 in all of baseball.

 

last time i heard, pawelek was pitching out of the bullpen.

You heard wrong.

 

no, i didn't.

He just started game one of their playoff series and pitched great, his best outing as a pro. If that is out of the bullpen some of our starters should try it.

 

i said: "the last i heard", which was true.

[illiniguy]

as far as landing cabrera, we have nothing that could beat anything that any other team could offer.

 

we have virtually no highly thought of prospects in our system.

I disagree, we actually are lucky that we kept drafting pitchers. I would think most teams would be interested in Gallagher, Veal, and Pawelek. That and with the guys in front of Pie getting the call I would say he might be top 20 in all of baseball.

 

last time i heard, pawelek was pitching out of the bullpen.

You heard wrong.

 

no, i didn't.

He just started game one of their playoff series and pitched great, his best outing as a pro. If that is out of the bullpen some of our starters should try it.

 

i said: "the last i heard", which was true.

Ok, but I don't think you should try to answer a prospects worth as of this time if the last time you "heard" about him was two months ago. I would say Pawelek made some very nice progress and might even be ready to start next season at high A.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Which means there are plenty of teams with more highly thought of prospects to offer up in trade.

 

No it doesn't. Some systems that are loaded can, but the Cubs are not devoid of high end talent.

 

 

The Marlins need position prospects more than pitching prospects. Pie isn't an elite prospect, especially after this season's meh showing. They're not going to take pitching prospects from us and then swap them for position prospects, so we're pretty much out of the Cabrera bidding from the start.

 

Do you think if they trade Cabrera they're going to get a package of all position players? Pie is still a stellar prospect, one of the best in the game. His improvement through the season is anything but meh.

 

High end talent doesn't mean top 50 in my book. The only thing that will push Pie up in the ranking is the graduation of guys like Young, Fielder, Verlander, etc. He'll move up by default this season. His .283/.341/.451/.792 line isn't anything great. Pie doesn't suck. I'm not saying that at all, but many teams will have better position propects to offer up in trade. They'll also have more of them. Our organization is the last place to come for position prospects. The Cubs track record on that speaks for itself.

 

I'm not trying to rag on Pie. He's just not good enough to get the likes of Cabrera. The rumors around the ASB were that the Marlins were asking the Dodgers and Angels for 2-3 top prospects and then some. We can't touch that type of quality. Was the asking price high? Yes, maybe even unrealistically so, but it illustrates the depth other orgs have in top tier talent that we don't have. If we couldn't sign Cabrera after his FA clock is up, we'd be in big trouble with and average at best farm system that just gave up it's top prospects.

 

Say no to Cabrera.

[Outshined_One]

I'm not trying to rag on Pie. He's just not good enough to get the likes of Cabrera. The rumors around the ASB were that the Marlins were asking the Dodgers and Angels for 2-3 top prospects and then some. We can't touch that type of quality. Was the asking price high? Yes, maybe even unrealistically so, but it illustrates the depth other orgs have in top tier talent that we don't have.

 

In all fairness, coming into the season the Dodgers, Angels, Diamondbacks, and Marlins arguably had the top four farm systems in all of baseball.

 

Because of his youth, upside, and five tool potential, Pie has been one of the top prospects in all of baseball for awhile now. He was in the Top 25 coming into the season and likely will find himself there again.

 

The Cubs' farm system is now bereft since a number of their pitchers no longer qualify. We have a TON of ML-ready and cheap pitchers which the Marlins would be thrilled to get their hands on. Coupled with that, the system has some rising stars who will appeal to any organization.

 

The Cubs have a lot of trading chips they can use in the offseason. Frankly, given how questionable the majority of the position players are in this year's crop, part of me would simply rather the Cubs look to the trade market.

 

Pie alone won't get Cabrera, but a package involving Pie, Veal, and Marshall would be mighty tempting, no?

[synergy]

Pie, Veal, and Marshall won't get you Cabrera. you would probably have to add Rich Hill or something. Maybe Pie, Hill, and Murton will do it. If that's the case I'd do it. Cabrera playing LF would be nice.

 

Pierre

Izturis

Lee

Cabrera

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Cedeno

 

That's a nice looking lineup.

[C.C.]

Pie, Veal, and Marshall won't get you Cabrera. you would probably have to add Rich Hill or something. Maybe Pie, Hill, and Murton will do it. If that's the case I'd do it. Cabrera playing LF would be nice.

 

Pierre

Izturis

Lee

Cabrera

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Cedeno

 

That's a nice looking lineup.

 

I can see Pie, Hill and Veal would get Cabrera...

[mg420]

i honestly dont think the cubs are just a "caberea" away from the playoffs. selling the farm for one position player is ludicrous imo. if it did happen, the cubs would watch the marlins ride yet another group of the cubs young players into the playoffs & perhaps the world series while the cubs flounder aroung the middle or bottom of the division. on the other hand, if they follow suit and play some of these young guys instead of trading them away, they might have a shot next year. i could see a lineup like this sometime in 2007:

 

pierre cf

murton lf

lee 1b

aram 3b

pie rf

barrett c

ep 2b

izturis ss

 

with sp of z, prior, hill, marshall, mateo/guzman and a pen of ohman, rapada, eyre, wuertz, aardsma, howry & marmol. that would leave guys like theriot, soto, moore, restovich & pagan for the bench.

[synergy]

You wouldn't trade 3 prospects for Cabrera? That's not the farm. Cabrera is much better than Murton and is still young. That's who Cabrera will be replacing. As far as losing Hill, he's good but also we have some more young pitching in the minors. And your lineup including Pie and Patterson next year....what happens if they turn out to be like Cedeno? Then people will say they're rookies wait till 2008. If you have the chance to get Cabrera, you do it.

[RockTheIvy]

What about Pat Burrell in LF? There is a rumor listed by that Ben Maler guy who says he wants to stay in Philly, but you know that means they're thinking of trying to move him. He provides power and good OBP. Platoon Murton and Jones, put Pie in CF, sign Loretta.

 

Loretta

Barrett

Lee

Ramirez

Burrell

Murton/Jones

Izturis

Pie

 

Wouldn't be as bad as this year, IMO.

[jmajew]

The Cubs do not need to sign another big bat. The Cubs need to go out and fill the holes in the lineup. Lee and Ramirez provide enough pop. Our problem is not in LF. We need to find a 2b who can get on base at a 360 clip. We need a CF who can get on base at a 350 clip, which Pierre has done since mid June. We need a platoon partner for Jones so we don't get his 234 OBP against Lefties. So you can resign Pierre for 2-3 years or preferably sign Lofton to a 1 year deal. You then go get Lugo/Giles/Durham/Loretta to play second. You sign Craig Wilson to platoon with Jones. Our offense is significantly upgraded. Then you use the money you don't waste on expensive offensive players to go get 1 or 2 quality starters. Zito/Schmidt/Meche/Mulder/Maddux/Mussina/Padilla

 

vs LH

Pierre/Lofton

2b

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Murton

Wilson

Izturis/Cedeno

 

vs RH

Pierre/Lofton

2b

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis/Cedeno

[muntjack]

A few points:

 

(And yes I believe we could contend by just upgrading slightly in a few areas)

 

1. The cubs could almost certainly get Cabrera for a package of Pie, Veal and Scott Moore. If the marlins are building for anything, it's 2009. All three of those mentioned should be contributing major leaguers at that point. If it takes another one of our top 5 prospects, or Sean Marshall,i'd do it. This is a future hall-of-famer. Do other teams have better packages they could offer? Yes. Are very many other teams in a position to give up half of their farm system to become an instant contender? No. The Dodgers and the Angels are a couple of others.

 

2. Cabrera > Pujols> Howard and everyone else. Cabrera is the perhaps the best pure hitter in all of baseball at just 23 years old. He is spraying line drives from line to line, and although he is sitting on 25 HRs, he already has 47 doubles. His current line again is .339/.429/.584

 

3. This guy is the same age as top prospects like Carlos Quentin and Stephen Drew, and he is 3.5 years younger than Ryan Howard. Imagine what he'll be doing at Howard's age.

 

4. Pierre

Murton

Lee

Cabrera

Ramirez

Barrett

Who cares

Who cares

[Backtobanks]

You wouldn't trade 3 prospects for Cabrera? That's not the farm. Cabrera is much better than Murton and is still young. That's who Cabrera will be replacing. As far as losing Hill, he's good but also we have some more young pitching in the minors. And your lineup including Pie and Patterson next year....what happens if they turn out to be like Cedeno? Then people will say they're rookies wait till 2008. If you have the chance to get Cabrera, you do it.

 

I think that Cabrera is about the only player that you can name who won't get a 20-page discussion on the pros and cons of a trade. I shouldn't speak so soon because if by some miracle Hendry got Cabrera, the Hendry bashers would be complaining about how much he gave up for him.

[A New Era]

You wouldn't trade 3 prospects for Cabrera? That's not the farm. Cabrera is much better than Murton and is still young. That's who Cabrera will be replacing. As far as losing Hill, he's good but also we have some more young pitching in the minors. And your lineup including Pie and Patterson next year....what happens if they turn out to be like Cedeno? Then people will say they're rookies wait till 2008. If you have the chance to get Cabrera, you do it.

 

I think that Cabrera is about the only player that you can name who won't get a 20-page discussion on the pros and cons of a trade. I shouldn't speak so soon because if by some miracle Hendry got Cabrera, the Hendry bashers would be complaining about how much he gave up for him.

 

Maybe so, but I think the "bashing" would be alot less than usual. Because it's CABRERA.

[Warpticon]

You wouldn't trade 3 prospects for Cabrera? That's not the farm. Cabrera is much better than Murton and is still young. That's who Cabrera will be replacing. As far as losing Hill, he's good but also we have some more young pitching in the minors. And your lineup including Pie and Patterson next year....what happens if they turn out to be like Cedeno? Then people will say they're rookies wait till 2008. If you have the chance to get Cabrera, you do it.

 

I think that Cabrera is about the only player that you can name who won't get a 20-page discussion on the pros and cons of a trade. I shouldn't speak so soon because if by some miracle Hendry got Cabrera, the Hendry bashers would be complaining about how much he gave up for him.

 

Maybe so, but I think the "bashing" would be alot less than usual. Because it's CABRERA.

 

Exactly. He would have actually gotten an impact player in or before his prime, rather than another Juan Pierre, who is just pretty good at his best and hasn't been that in three years (and who also cost us three prospects).

[jmajew]

You wouldn't trade 3 prospects for Cabrera? That's not the farm. Cabrera is much better than Murton and is still young. That's who Cabrera will be replacing. As far as losing Hill, he's good but also we have some more young pitching in the minors. And your lineup including Pie and Patterson next year....what happens if they turn out to be like Cedeno? Then people will say they're rookies wait till 2008. If you have the chance to get Cabrera, you do it.

 

I think that Cabrera is about the only player that you can name who won't get a 20-page discussion on the pros and cons of a trade. I shouldn't speak so soon because if by some miracle Hendry got Cabrera, the Hendry bashers would be complaining about how much he gave up for him.

 

Maybe so, but I think the "bashing" would be alot less than usual. Because it's CABRERA.

 

Exactly. He would have actually gotten an impact player in or before his prime, rather than another Juan Pierre, who is just pretty good at his best and hasn't been that in three years (and who also cost us three prospects).

 

I'm all in favor of getting Cabrera, however, if we have guys with 320 OBP 1-2 it will be kind of a waste. The most important thing this team needs to do is upgrade all of the other positions. If we can upgrade 2b, CF and get Cabrera great. But if our Lineup is Pierre, Izturis, Lee, Cabrera, Ramirez, Barrett, Jones, Cedeno we aren't in very good shape. Especially because we will probably have no money/no prospects to improve our rotation. The pitching staff is probably our biggest problem/hardest one to fix. Our offense since the All Star break has been about average. Which if we had a rotation that was worth anything we would be a much improved team.

[mg420]

You wouldn't trade 3 prospects for Cabrera? That's not the farm. Cabrera is much better than Murton and is still young. That's who Cabrera will be replacing. As far as losing Hill, he's good but also we have some more young pitching in the minors. And your lineup including Pie and Patterson next year....what happens if they turn out to be like Cedeno? Then people will say they're rookies wait till 2008. If you have the chance to get Cabrera, you do it.

 

i happen to think that murton, pie & hill will win more games for the cubs than cabrera alone would. the young pitching in the minors will not be ready next year most likely and it was really the starting pitching that did the cubs in this year (or lack there of). imo murton can be a .300 25 hr guy and hill can win 15 games in 2007.