nice knowing you, the riot

[jjgman21]

I didn't see the play, but I have to believe the mistake was missing the sign, not a mental mistake regarding stealing of bases.

 

this is a Dusty Baker lead team, Theriot is a rookie that doesn't have track star speed. I am sure it is abundantly clear to him that he has the permanent red light unless told otherwise. it's hard to imagine he was stealing that base on his own.

[Abe Frohman]

Any time you make the 1st or 3rd out at Third Base, it is a mistake. It is an unwritten baseball rule that you never do that.

 

It isn't a "young mistake," becaue kids know that in High School. Theriot made a bad decision. What he was thinking is the question. There is a difference between aggressive baserunning and intelligent baserunning, no?

[SoonerCubFan]

If Baker had just said that Theriot had made a "mistake" in that situation, I don't think it would get people as upset. By characterizing it as a "young mistake" it fuels the veteran-fetish belief that Baker protests against so much.

 

People who are 100% anti-Baker or bandwagon hoppers will use anything to be upset. It's to the point now where it's almost a contest to see what minor little snippet can be posted the soonest to create the latest furor, which detracts from and drowns out the real issues. IMO using such phraseology can actually serve as a way to protect Theriot is his mind, another form of excuse to which Baker has a proclivity.

[YearofDaCubs]

It is a stupid play and there's nothing wrong pointing it out. I just find it funny how Baker has to emphasize that it's a YOUNG, A VERY YOUNG mistake. It's funny because Baker's veterans make similar so-called "rookie mistakes" all the time. They've done it since he's gotten here. Yet the only ones who get called out of making "young" or "rookie" mistakes are the actual young rookies. Apparantly it's not a young rookie mistake if you do the same thing as a veteran.

Baker is an imbecile full of double standards.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't subscribe to the notion that "that wasn't a good play" even remotely approaches blasting. And, I've seen no evidence that it is routine, other than there being a lot of opportunities to be asked about such plays. Also, I've seen comments made about poor decision making with veterans when asked. I don't like many of his lineup decisions and his tendency to overwork his productive horses to win today, but IMO this whole "Baker Hates Young Players" angle is WAY overblown and not backed by much tanglible evidence all the way back to his San Fran days.

 

Well then you just don't read his quotes very much. He said, that was just a young, very young mistake.

 

He routinely talks about young mistakes, failings of youth, rookie mistakes, etc etc. But his veterans just hustle at the wrong time, or were trying to make something happen. It's a pattern, and if you can't spot it, you are purposefully ignoring it.

[Caryatid]

I don't subscribe to the notion that "that wasn't a good play" even remotely approaches blasting. And, I've seen no evidence that it is routine, other than there being a lot of opportunities to be asked about such plays. Also, I've seen comments made about poor decision making with veterans when asked. I don't like many of his lineup decisions and his tendency to overwork his productive horses to win today, but IMO this whole "Baker Hates Young Players" angle is WAY overblown and not backed by much tanglible evidence all the way back to his San Fran days.

 

Well then you just don't read his quotes very much. He said, that was just a young, very young mistake.

 

He routinely talks about young mistakes, failings of youth, rookie mistakes, etc etc. But his veterans just hustle at the wrong time, or were trying to make something happen. It's a pattern, and if you can't spot it, you are purposefully ignoring it.

 

I believe the horse is officially dead-we can all stop beating it...

[goonys evil twin]

I don't subscribe to the notion that "that wasn't a good play" even remotely approaches blasting. And, I've seen no evidence that it is routine, other than there being a lot of opportunities to be asked about such plays. Also, I've seen comments made about poor decision making with veterans when asked. I don't like many of his lineup decisions and his tendency to overwork his productive horses to win today, but IMO this whole "Baker Hates Young Players" angle is WAY overblown and not backed by much tanglible evidence all the way back to his San Fran days.

 

Well then you just don't read his quotes very much. He said, that was just a young, very young mistake.

 

He routinely talks about young mistakes, failings of youth, rookie mistakes, etc etc. But his veterans just hustle at the wrong time, or were trying to make something happen. It's a pattern, and if you can't spot it, you are purposefully ignoring it.

 

I believe the horse is officially dead-we can all stop beating it...

 

If some people are still trying to claim the horse is not dead, I'm going to stay here until someone puts the horse out of its misery.

[Caryatid]

I don't subscribe to the notion that "that wasn't a good play" even remotely approaches blasting. And, I've seen no evidence that it is routine, other than there being a lot of opportunities to be asked about such plays. Also, I've seen comments made about poor decision making with veterans when asked. I don't like many of his lineup decisions and his tendency to overwork his productive horses to win today, but IMO this whole "Baker Hates Young Players" angle is WAY overblown and not backed by much tanglible evidence all the way back to his San Fran days.

 

Well then you just don't read his quotes very much. He said, that was just a young, very young mistake.

 

He routinely talks about young mistakes, failings of youth, rookie mistakes, etc etc. But his veterans just hustle at the wrong time, or were trying to make something happen. It's a pattern, and if you can't spot it, you are purposefully ignoring it.

 

I believe the horse is officially dead-we can all stop beating it...

 

If some people are still trying to claim the horse is not dead, I'm going to stay here until someone puts the horse out of its misery.

 

Well, if that's the case, can someone remind me to not read any quote that even hints that there is a Baker quote in it? Seeing as how people feel the need to bring this same topic up every day, I could use the head's up.

[goonys evil twin]

Well, if that's the case, can someone remind me to not read any quote that even hints that there is a Baker quote in it? Seeing as how people feel the need to bring this same topic up every day, I could use the head's up.

 

If the first post talks about a Baker quote, and you don't want to partake in the discussion, the wise thing to do would be to clicking out of the thread. It takes more time to read the thing, and send a reply, than to simply wander somewhere else.

[Caryatid]

Well, if that's the case, can someone remind me to not read any quote that even hints that there is a Baker quote in it? Seeing as how people feel the need to bring this same topic up every day, I could use the head's up.

 

If the first post talks about a Baker quote, and you don't want to partake in the discussion, the wise thing to do would be to clicking out of the thread. It takes more time to read the thing, and send a reply, than to simply wander somewhere else.

 

That is my plan from now on...I felt that that someone needed to bring up the redundancy of this thread, however. That's it from me.

[goonys evil twin]

Well, if that's the case, can someone remind me to not read any quote that even hints that there is a Baker quote in it? Seeing as how people feel the need to bring this same topic up every day, I could use the head's up.

 

If the first post talks about a Baker quote, and you don't want to partake in the discussion, the wise thing to do would be to clicking out of the thread. It takes more time to read the thing, and send a reply, than to simply wander somewhere else.

 

That is my plan from now on...I felt that that someone needed to bring up the redundancy of this thread, however. That's it from me.

 

We're talking about the Cubs. Everyting about it is redundent. You aren't going to find any profound new ideas to discuss.

 

 

There is nothing new under the sun.

[abuck1220]

Well, if that's the case, can someone remind me to not read any quote that even hints that there is a Baker quote in it? Seeing as how people feel the need to bring this same topic up every day, I could use the head's up.

 

If the first post talks about a Baker quote, and you don't want to partake in the discussion, the wise thing to do would be to clicking out of the thread. It takes more time to read the thing, and send a reply, than to simply wander somewhere else.

 

That is my plan from now on...I felt that that someone needed to bring up the redundancy of this thread, however. That's it from me.

 

if you don't want to discuss the cubs, baker, or each day's game, i don't know why you read the threads. what else is there to talk about? we surely aren't debating how the cubs should line up their playoff rotation at this point.

 

baker's veteran fetish is blatantly obvious, and it hurts the team in the present and, if he's still the manager, in the future. i think it's a valid discussion topic.

[C.C.]

Well, if that's the case, can someone remind me to not read any quote that even hints that there is a Baker quote in it? Seeing as how people feel the need to bring this same topic up every day, I could use the head's up.

 

If the first post talks about a Baker quote, and you don't want to partake in the discussion, the wise thing to do would be to clicking out of the thread. It takes more time to read the thing, and send a reply, than to simply wander somewhere else.

 

That is my plan from now on...I felt that that someone needed to bring up the redundancy of this thread, however. That's it from me.

 

if you don't want to discuss the cubs, baker, or each day's game, i don't know why you read the threads. what else is there to talk about? we surely aren't debating how the cubs should line up their playoff rotation at this point.

 

baker's veteran fetish is blatantly obvious, and it hurts the team in the present and, if he's still the manager, in the future. i think it's a valid discussion topic.

 

At least the Neifi threads are dying. Thank god! How many more ways can you say "Neifi sucks"?

[Andy]

Well, if that's the case, can someone remind me to not read any quote that even hints that there is a Baker quote in it? Seeing as how people feel the need to bring this same topic up every day, I could use the head's up.

 

If the first post talks about a Baker quote, and you don't want to partake in the discussion, the wise thing to do would be to clicking out of the thread. It takes more time to read the thing, and send a reply, than to simply wander somewhere else.

 

That is my plan from now on...I felt that that someone needed to bring up the redundancy of this thread, however. That's it from me.

 

if you don't want to discuss the cubs, baker, or each day's game, i don't know why you read the threads. what else is there to talk about? we surely aren't debating how the cubs should line up their playoff rotation at this point.

 

baker's veteran fetish is blatantly obvious, and it hurts the team in the present and, if he's still the manager, in the future. i think it's a valid discussion topic.

 

At least the Neifi threads are dying. Thank god! How many more ways can you say "Neifi sucks"?

I suspect there are more that we have yet to discover.

[SoonerCubFan]

I don't subscribe to the notion that "that wasn't a good play" even remotely approaches blasting. And, I've seen no evidence that it is routine, other than there being a lot of opportunities to be asked about such plays. Also, I've seen comments made about poor decision making with veterans when asked. I don't like many of his lineup decisions and his tendency to overwork his productive horses to win today, but IMO this whole "Baker Hates Young Players" angle is WAY overblown and not backed by much tanglible evidence all the way back to his San Fran days.

 

Well then you just don't read his quotes very much. He said, that was just a young, very young mistake.

 

He routinely talks about young mistakes, failings of youth, rookie mistakes, etc etc. But his veterans just hustle at the wrong time, or were trying to make something happen. It's a pattern, and if you can't spot it, you are purposefully ignoring it.

 

That's where you don't understand where I'm coming from. I read his quotes as often as anyone. I just never bought into the whole supposed veteran fetish that was rampant the day he was hired. Having a soft spot for the then burgeoning farm system, I was especially sensitive and did my own research during the 2002-3 offseason. I found that the Giants had a very weak farm system during his tenure there (virtually zero Top 10 prospects, very few Top 100), and the few talented guys they did have (Beck, Aurelia, Mueller, Reuter, Ortiz, Estes, Clayton, etc.) all were brought along nicely on a team that was always in contention. ZERO evidence for a "veteran fetish", quite the opposite IMO. The issue was that was the reality of what his GM was providing him. In short, I had far fewer qualms about his willingness and ability to blend young and veteran players which was the state of the Cubs circa 2003.

 

Since he's been here I've been amazed at how the very quotes I "miss"

get scrutinized and interpreted far differently from what I see, this thread being a perfect example. I've seen a ton of PT for guys under 25 during these 4 years, very few who've proven worthy. Everyone wants to suggest that Baker is somehow stunting Murton when Murton sucks for a while, but when he turns it around Baker gets zero credit. I would suggest that there is a whole lot of pattern missing and purposeful ignoring going on IRT Baker, some preconceived and some just because it's the cool thing to do. Baker has legit faults in some areas, but his handling of "youts" isn't one of them.

[abuck1220]

i look forward to hearing baker rip bynum for getting picked off one pitch before jones' double.

[CubColtPacer]

i look forward to hearing baker rip bynum for getting picked off one pitch before jones' double.

 

As I was just saying on the game thread, what can Dusty say about Bynum's play that won't get criticized tomorrow? If he dismisses it as a regular play of the game, he will get criticized for favortism. If he says it was a mistake, then people will say he is biased against youngsters just like they said today. Basically, there is nothing he can say about a move like this that will be accepted.

[UMFan83]

i look forward to hearing baker rip bynum for getting picked off one pitch before jones' double.

 

As I was just saying on the game thread, what can Dusty say about Bynum's play that won't get criticized tomorrow? If he dismisses it as a regular play of the game, he will get criticized for favortism. If he says it was a mistake, then people will say he is biased against youngsters just like they said today. Basically, there is nothing he can say about a move like this that will be accepted.

 

Oh well, shouldn't have sucked as a manager for the last 3 years and put himself in this situation.

[abuck1220]

i look forward to hearing baker rip bynum for getting picked off one pitch before jones' double.

 

As I was just saying on the game thread, what can Dusty say about Bynum's play that won't get criticized tomorrow? If he dismisses it as a regular play of the game, he will get criticized for favortism. If he says it was a mistake, then people will say he is biased against youngsters just like they said today. Basically, there is nothing he can say about a move like this that will be accepted.

 

for some reason, bynum is one of baker's pets, and thus not considered one of those rookies who have ruined his season and possibly cost him his job. you know, like angel guzman (6 ip, 1 r, 8 k's tonight).

[abuck1220]

Baker chalked up Ryan Theriot's baserunning blunder Tuesday as a "youthful mistake," though even rookies learn not to try to steal third with two outs.

 

"They know it," Baker said. "Just trying to make something happen. I explained to him, you already made it happen; you hit a two-out double."

 

vs

 

Manager Dusty Baker said Ramirez was trying to be too aggressive.

 

"Anytime you get a leadoff double … Aramis was hustling to third," Baker said.

 

"Everybody says he doesn't hustle, then he was hustling. He just hustled at the wrong time."

[CubColtPacer]

Baker chalked up Ryan Theriot's baserunning blunder Tuesday as a "youthful mistake," though even rookies learn not to try to steal third with two outs.

 

"They know it," Baker said. "Just trying to make something happen. I explained to him, you already made it happen; you hit a two-out double."

 

vs

 

Manager Dusty Baker said Ramirez was trying to be too aggressive.

 

"Anytime you get a leadoff double … Aramis was hustling to third," Baker said.

 

"Everybody says he doesn't hustle, then he was hustling. He just hustled at the wrong time."

 

What was the game situation of that Aramis game when he did that? Was it the same as Theriot's?

[Soriano12]

Just as I thought...In todays Sun Times.

 

No mention of Bynums blunder but he is still talking about Theriots mistake

and downright mocking him.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-cubnt24.html

 

Rookie Ryan Theriot committed a baseball sin Tuesday when he tried to steal third base in the eighth inning after doubling with two out. Theriot was thrown out with the 3-4-5 hitters due up.

 

''He was trying to make something happen, but I explained to him you already made something happen with a double and two outs,'' Baker said. ''Here's a young man who's been to the College World Series. They know [better]. Even my [7-year-old] son called me and said, 'Dad, you don't make the last out at third.'''

 

Talk about a unnecessary shot to Theriot. Complete B.S.

 

Dusty Baker is an ignorant racist jackass

[soapy]

Is that for real?? My God, Dusty. I can't figure out why people think you don't like youngsters.

[Guest]

Can we please stop making the accusation that Dusty is racist? Frankly, I simply do not want to see that kind of unsubstantiated slander on the site anymore. Criticize his managing, his handling of youth, his handling of pitching or anything baseball-related. But calling him racist crosses the line.

 

Thanks.

[C.C.]

Just as I thought...In todays Sun Times.

 

No mention of Bynums blunder but he is still talking about Theriots mistake

and downright mocking him.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-cubnt24.html

 

Rookie Ryan Theriot committed a baseball sin Tuesday when he tried to steal third base in the eighth inning after doubling with two out. Theriot was thrown out with the 3-4-5 hitters due up.

 

''He was trying to make something happen, but I explained to him you already made something happen with a double and two outs,'' Baker said. ''Here's a young man who's been to the College World Series. They know [better]. Even my [7-year-old] son called me and said, 'Dad, you don't make the last out at third.'''

 

Talk about a unnecessary shot to Theriot. Complete B.S.

 

Dusty Baker is an ignorant racist jackass

 

If Ozzie makes that comment he's fresh and funny! When Baker makes it it's Racist? What is this Cubs.com fourms?