Neyer: Dusty may be an HOF-worthy manager

[RynoRules]

Dusty Baker

 

Baker was never a great player, not even for a moment (not like his teammate Reggie Smith, for example). In The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, James ranked Baker as the 54th-greatest left fielder in major league history. Not Hall of Fame-worthy, by any measure. But what if we consider Baker's 14 (and counting) seasons as one of the game's best-known (and often successful) managers? You might not like what he has done with the Cubs lately, but he does have a winning record in his career and three first-place finishes and a near miss in the 2002 World Series.

 

Link

[Soriano12]

Drugs are bad Rob...mmmKay.

[OleMissCub]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/nlebess/Whatever%20Pics/ScaredMonkey.jpg

 

 

WHAT!!?????

[Drew Doughty]

he has a point, but i think his stint with the Cubs is going to ruin HOF chances like he ruined arms.

[Sammy Sofa]

And he gets paid to write that?

[CubColtPacer]

It's possible if these people take this overall contribution rule seriously. Neither his playing career nor his managerial career are HOF worthy, but considered together he has a chance. I think he'd have to go somewhere else and have sucess for 5 years or so (including a WS somewhere) to have a good shot at it.

[Electron Blue]

frankly, you get enough wins and enough media coverage, you're guarenteed to at least be considered for the hall (esp. since manager induction is so much more vague than player induction).

 

generally, a well known manager with a ton of wins is hall-worthy, but surely sometimes a guy may have been on many good teams in big markets. not saying that's necessarily dusty's case, but still.

[RynoRules]

Its hard for me to assess Neyer's comments in any objective way b/c my opinion of Dusty is so badly colored by the last three years.

[halplm]

If Dusty makes it into the Hall of Fame, while Santo still hasn't made it... I'll consider the HOF even less important than I already do... if that's even possible...

[erik316wttn]

We should have a "Rob Neyer is stupid" thread.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Dusty Baker

 

Baker was never a great player, not even for a moment (not like his teammate Reggie Smith, for example). In The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, James ranked Baker as the 54th-greatest left fielder in major league history. Not Hall of Fame-worthy, by any measure. But what if we consider Baker's 14 (and counting) seasons as one of the game's best-known (and often successful) managers? You might not like what he has done with the Cubs lately, but he does have a winning record in his career and three first-place finishes and a near miss in the 2002 World Series.

 

Link

 

Rob Neyer....the comic.

[Jon]

Let's not forget that Dusty has no idea what it's like to have to sit at home in October.

 

I'm sure he'll remind us of that in the next few weeks.

[TruffleShuffle]

:pukel: :newugh: :pig: :getyou: :-k :roll: :axe: :assault: :wall: :huh: :shrug: :headache: :scratch: #-o :evil: :thumbdown: :yernuts: :club: ](*,) :puker:

 

 

That is my reaction to this, in smiley form.

[Jehrico]

We should have a "Rob Neyer is stupid" thread.

 

I don't know about that...I think it would water-down the level of the absolute, sheer stupidity of Joe Morgan. Neyer at his dumbest is smarter than Joe Morgan at his smartest.

[NCCubFan]

Dusty Baker

 

Baker was never a great player, not even for a moment (not like his teammate Reggie Smith, for example). In The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, James ranked Baker as the 54th-greatest left fielder in major league history. Not Hall of Fame-worthy, by any measure. But what if we consider Baker's 14 (and counting) seasons as one of the game's best-known (and often successful) managers? You might not like what he has done with the Cubs lately, but he does have a winning record in his career and three first-place finishes and a near miss in the 2002 World Series.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

If abusing pitchers is what qualifies a manager for the Hall, then maybe.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It didn't appear to me that Neyer was advocating Dusty's inclusion in the Hall, he was just mentioning that he could be a candidate someday based on his overall contribution to the game as a player and manager.

[badger1679666666]

Yea, Neyer has been one of the more astute baseball writers out there. At least the stuff I've read of his.

[bhogg]

lots of managers have finished in first place. Why is Dusty so darned special?

[jjgman21]

Dusty Baker

 

Baker was never a great player, not even for a moment (not like his teammate Reggie Smith, for example). In The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, James ranked Baker as the 54th-greatest left fielder in major league history. Not Hall of Fame-worthy, by any measure. But what if we consider Baker's 14 (and counting) seasons as one of the game's best-known (and often successful) managers? You might not like what he has done with the Cubs lately, but he does have a winning record in his career and three first-place finishes and a near miss in the 2002 World Series.

 

Link

 

not only is his premise laughable, his facts are highly debatable. his playing career certainly wasn't HOF worthy, but re: the bolded part above, I would say that winning back to back silver slugger awards and playing defense at least well enough to win a Gold Glove in one of those years, finishing 4th and 7th in MVP voting in those two years, makes a player great for more than an instant. mix in the fact that those two years were arguably the 3rd and 4th best of his career, and Neyer certainly comes off as an idiot with just about every word of that paragraph.

[Caryatid]

Seeing how there is virtually no quantifiable way to evaluate managers, they are going to get evaluated mostly upon their record. And fact is, Baker's record as a manager is pretty good. Hall of Fame good? Who knows. But people need to understand that simply because he doesn't adhere to the baseball philosophies associated with this board does not mean he cannot (or should not) get consideration for the Hall. I don't think he will get in because he could never win in the playoffs (which is where managers truly show their abilities), but I doubt that "pitcher abuse" or "distaste for walks" will be cited by the majority of voters when they decide not to let him in.

 

Face it-the guy won a lot of games as a manager. Who was responsible for those wins (cough...Bonds...cough) will be forgotten by the voters. I don't mind that they consider him simply based upon his W-L record, but I'm fairly certain when all is said and done he will fall firmly in the "no" column.

[SoonerCubFan]

Seeing how there is virtually no quantifiable way to evaluate managers, they are going to get evaluated mostly upon their record. And fact is, Baker's record as a manager is pretty good. Hall of Fame good? Who knows. But people need to understand that simply because he doesn't adhere to the baseball philosophies associated with this board does not mean he cannot (or should not) get consideration for the Hall. I don't think he will get in because he could never win in the playoffs (which is where managers truly show their abilities), but I doubt that "pitcher abuse" or "distaste for walks" will be cited by the majority of voters when they decide not to let him in.

 

Face it-the guy won a lot of games as a manager. Who was responsible for those wins (cough...Bonds...cough) will be forgotten by the voters. I don't mind that they consider him simply based upon his W-L record, but I'm fairly certain when all is said and done he will fall firmly in the "no" column.

 

Very well written and reasoned post to which I agree almost in toto. All managers are pretty much a function of the organization (front office down to players) to which they belong. If the players suck they suck, if the players are good, they're good.

 

If Baker hooks up with another talented team for another 10+ years he'll have numbers similar to HoFers like Durocher, who had great players most of his long career, yet underachieved with terrific Cubs team from 1967-1972. But, most likely he'll be in the Gene Mauch/Ralph Houk group of managers on the outside looking in.

[NewUserName]

I would think that at least 1 WS victory would be mandatory for a manager. Using the line of reasoning that would get Dusty Baker a shot at the Hall of Fame than Lou Piniella would be the first to go. Mike Sciosia(sp) would be getting close to eligble. Heck even Bob Brenley if he was to manage a good team again. These are just modern guys I thought of off the top of my head. I am sure there has been more in baseball history who were slightly above average players and slightly above average managers for several years who are not in the Hall of Fame. Is Billy Martin even in. Burned out arms with the best of them.