The Soccer Thread

[wolf stansson]

That Portland/SSFC game was a beatdown. Not even close.

 

Seattle need a new coach, and a better midfield.

And center backs.

 

 

Brad Evans, Clint Dempsey, Eddie Johnson and Ozzie Alonso are the only players they should write in for next year.

[brinoch]

It's poppin in Portland. The anti-Salt Lake. RSL's crowd put me to sleep.

 

I had the pleasure of being in the crowd last night. What a great time -- my voice still hasn't returned.

[shnsajax]

Huge win for Sunderland over City, Jozy on as a sub again and played fairly well in limited touches just holding the ball up.

 

Sets up a big opportunity for Arsenal today.

[USSoccer]

I'm going to preface this by saying that it's despite United being up 1-0 right now:

 

I can completely see why Man U are very average this year. David Moyes is the wrong coach for these players. He's playing completely away from their strengths by forcing all the attacks on to the flanks. He's utterly wasting Shingi Kagawa.

 

They'll be okay because their defense is still pretty good, and Rooney and van Persie are still great players, but they won't be winning anything unless Moyes understands that he isn't at Everton having to bargain shop and play games like he's stuck in a time warp from 1997.

 

ETA: Arsenal look totally incompetent tonight.

[shnsajax]

This is the 2012 Arsenal playing without much purpose outside the 18. Really annoying.

[USSoccer]

Shouldn't Jack Wilshire be out injured with one of his usual muscle ailments?

[shnsajax]

Aron with a brace in a 2-2 draw.

[Guest]

At least City made me feel a bit better today.

 

Disappointing first half from Spurs before Krul stood on his head in the second.

[USSoccer]

At least City made me feel a bit better today.

 

Disappointing first half from Spurs before Krul stood on his head in the second.

 

Its so enjoyable watching Spurs misfire. I relish every time they're blanked.

[Guest]

31 shots including 14 on goal. At least Spurs created a bunch of chances. Normally they don't get many good shots at all.

 

Every time Townsend shoots from 25 yards out, I dislike him a bit more. He's trying much too hard to be Gareth Bale. He's shooting a ton from far out but the only goal he's scored this year was an attempted cross. It reminds me a bit of Nani trying to do what Ronaldo did at ManU.

[wolf stansson]

Really looking forward to the Bradley-Gil CM pairing after the World Cup. That kid is class.

[wvcbxl]

Not sure if you guys agree with any of this, but I found it an interesting read on the BBC website : Major League Soccer: Can the MLS revolution survive and thrive?

[wolf stansson]

Not sure if you guys agree with any of this, but I found it an interesting read on the BBC website : Major League Soccer: Can the MLS revolution survive and thrive?

MLS inhabits an interesting place in the American sporting landscape. It's underrated by soccer fans who only watch European leagues, it's overrated by it's fans that only follow MLS and it's ignored by almost every casual sports fan who doesn't live in an MLS city.

The way it's hyper-regionalized is reflected in TV ratings. MLS playoffs have been getting about 180,000 viewers while a big Premier League matchup will get around 900,000, yet attendances at the gate are relatively high compared to a lot of established American sports. It's higher than hockey, it's on par with the NBA and in some markets they outdraw baseball.

 

I think that proves that when people go to a game or experience a matchday atmosphere, they are drawn to it, but the quality and excitement isn't high enough to bleed out to regions where people don't get to see the game day experience. That's why Don Garber and MLS have been pushing expansion so hard. They're trying to fill in the map. It's worked well so far, but I think they're running out of hungry soccer markets and the last few cities are a bit of a reach. Especially Miami and Atlanta, but more on that later ([expletive] "Brand Beckham"). Unfortunately for the league, big money only rolls in with TV ratings and right now, they have a lot of work to do to improve that.

 

Soccer, as in the sport itself, has been espoused to be this sleeping giant that is someday going to explode in America since the 70's, but in reality, it's been a slow burn that has grown and grown steadily. It's inevitable that it will be considered a huge sport and it's legitimacy in the eyes of casual sports fans has grown a lot since I started following the pro leagues and internationals in 2006, but how much of the diluted soccer viewing landscape can MLS fill when you can watch every major league in the world on cable? I don't know, but I do know that MLS is an incredibly competitive, fun league to watch and follow. The DIY ethos of media coverage and fan communities that has grown by necessity from being ignored by mainstream media is very relateable and fun to be a part of. It's the best fan experience in American pro sports for my money, but as the sport grows, that access and relatability will go away as more money comes into the league. While I acknowledge the author's point that the salary cap restrictions are a little over-protective at this point, I don't agree that the league is ready to pull off the restrictions and let team's spend whatever they want. The league's parity is it's most attractive quality and having 5 teams willing to spend like huge clubs and 15 teams trying to spend like they currently do is not the way forward. I agree with the league's measured approach. The next step is not removing salary caps. The next step is allowing more free market player movement between teams and getting rid of the single-entity system. They have a long way to go before it can be a free-for-all.

 

Soccer already has a comfortable place in the American sports landscape. MLS will always have a place within soccer's piece of the pie, but I have a hard time seeing it ever be as big as American Football, the NBA or even the Premier League.

 

As for the "Brand Beckham" boosting interest or being a great fit for Miami, that's bull [expletive] propaganda from a media outlet that doesn't understand the limits of Beckham's appeal outside of England. First, we have tons of evidence to prove that Beckham doesn't move the needle in terms of TV ratings or attendance after the initial novelty of his arrival wore off (eventually, his greatest contributions to MLS were on the field, which we're hardly the stuff of legend but he fit in nicely as a complimentary player to Landon Donovan on those Galaxy championship teams), secondly, Miami barely supports American pro teams like the Heat, the Dolphins and the Marlins and third, an MLS team has already failed there once. Florida is the worst and Miami is the worst of the worst. Beckham is an idiot if he thinks he can make that city love an MLS team. He'd be better off starting a team in St. Louis or Minneapolis, but those cities aren't sexy so he wants to put it in Miami. Good luck to him and his PR machine. Much like his initial season as a player in MLS, I think he'll find it a much bigger challenge than he expected to be successful.

[jersey cubs fan]

yet attendances at the gate are relatively high compared to a lot of established American sports. It's higher than hockey, it's on par with the NBA and in some markets they outdraw baseball.

 

I assume you are talking about a per game basis. This is not a particularly meaningful statistic, as those tickets are priced to sell and there are only 17? home dates per season. Hockey plays 41 home dates and tickets are priced at a higher level because there is higher demand. If 22,000 people attend one MLS game and 19,000 people attend one NHL game, that doesn't tell you anything about the status of MLS.

[wolf stansson]

That's definitely a valid point. I view attendance at MLS as something that shows it's quality as a game day experience. People who go keep going. It's not a one-time novelty experience by and large. It's not where the NHL is yet, though it's regionality and struggles with TV ratings are analogous. The NHL is more established and popular than MLS certainly.

 

 

Friendlies roster:

U.S. ROSTER BY POSITION - Detailed Roster

GOALKEEPERS (3) : Bill Hamid (D.C. United), Tim Howard (Everton), Sean Johnson (Chicago Fire)

DEFENDERS (7) : DaMarcus Beasley (Puebla), John Brooks (Hertha Berlin), Geoff Cameron (Stoke City), Brad Evans (Seattle Sounders FC), Omar Gonzalez (LA Galaxy), Eric Lichaj (Nottingham Forest), Michael Orozco (Puebla)

MIDFIELDERS (7) : Alejandro Bedoya (Nantes), Michael Bradley (Roma), Mix Diskerud (Rosenborg), Fabian Johnson (Hoffenheim), Jermaine Jones (Schalke), Sacha Kljestan (Anderlecht), Brek Shea (Stoke City)

FORWARDS (6) : Jozy Altidore (Sunderland), Terrence Boyd (Rapid Vienna), Clint Dempsey (Seattle Sounders FC), Aron Johannsson (AZ Alkmaar), Eddie Johnson (Seattle Sounders FC), Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes)

[jersey cubs fan]

That's definitely a valid point. I view attendance at MLS as something that shows it's quality as a game day experience. People who go keep going. It's not a one-time novelty experience by and large. It's not where the NHL is yet, though it's regionality and struggles with TV ratings are analogous. The NHL is more established and popular than MLS certainly.

 

I think you have a fair amount of that one-time novelty crowd, but there isn't anything wrong with that. I know quite a few fathers that have gone to Red Bulls games strictly because of the affordable "family friendly" environment. The kids generally play soccer but there isn't much passion for the red bulls themselves. It's odd though, that I live about a 10 minute drive from the stadium but really have no idea when they play, or what their upcoming schedule looks like. I would think they would be more proactive to drive interest. We drove right by the stadium last week when going to a friend's house and I mentioned that I'd like to go soon. But my 4-year old was indifferent.

[wolf stansson]

That's definitely a valid point. I view attendance at MLS as something that shows it's quality as a game day experience. People who go keep going. It's not a one-time novelty experience by and large. It's not where the NHL is yet, though it's regionality and struggles with TV ratings are analogous. The NHL is more established and popular than MLS certainly.

 

I think you have a fair amount of that one-time novelty crowd, but there isn't anything wrong with that. I know quite a few fathers that have gone to Red Bulls games strictly because of the affordable "family friendly" environment. The kids generally play soccer but there isn't much passion for the red bulls themselves. It's odd though, that I live about a 10 minute drive from the stadium but really have no idea when they play, or what their upcoming schedule looks like. I would think they would be more proactive to drive interest. We drove right by the stadium last week when going to a friend's house and I mentioned that I'd like to go soon. But my 4-year old was indifferent.

The NYC area is the biggest culprit for apathy about MLS vs interest in European leagues. NYRB/the Metro Stars haven't done a good job cracking the market either. I wonder if NYC FC will do better. A lot of bad excuses are made for why the Red Bulls aren't doing better - the stadium is in Jersey, the sports market is saturated, they've never won MLS cup, blah blah blah. It's all nonsense. The MLS teams that invest in professional marketing and PR kick the Red Bulls ass in attendance and local tv ratings with a fraction of the population to build a fan base. There's no reason MLS can work so well in Seattle, Portland, Kansas City and do so relatively poorly in NY/NJ. Chicago and LA don't do as well as they should either. Maybe there's some population ceiling where cities that have too many options don't choose MLS at the rate as smaller big cities do. I don't know, but I do know that MLS itself is spending tons of money trying to figure out how to crack the New York egg.

[wvcbxl]

Interesting points - thanks.

[shnsajax]

Why does Wondo keep making it?

[wolf stansson]

Why does Wondo keep making it?

Part of me thinks it's to keep EJ humble and show him a less talented but more productive MLS striker nipping at his heels.

Edited November 11, 2013 by wolf stansson

[shnsajax]

Is rather start giving those spots to Agudelo at this point.

[USSoccer]

 

As for the "Brand Beckham" boosting interest or being a great fit for Miami, that's bull [expletive] propaganda from a media outlet that doesn't understand the limits of Beckham's appeal outside of England. First, we have tons of evidence to prove that Beckham doesn't move the needle in terms of TV ratings or attendance after the initial novelty of his arrival wore off (eventually, his greatest contributions to MLS were on the field, which we're hardly the stuff of legend but he fit in nicely as a complimentary player to Landon Donovan on those Galaxy championship teams), secondly, Miami barely supports American pro teams like the Heat, the Dolphins and the Marlins and third, an MLS team has already failed there once. Florida is the worst and Miami is the worst of the worst. Beckham is an idiot if he thinks he can make that city love an MLS team. He'd be better off starting a team in St. Louis or Minneapolis, but those cities aren't sexy so he wants to put it in Miami. Good luck to him and his PR machine. Much like his initial season as a player in MLS, I think he'll find it a much bigger challenge than he expected to be successful.

 

This can't be stated enough; MLS is making a mistake going back into Miami.

[wolf stansson]

Is rather start giving those spots to Agudelo at this point.

Oh hell yeah. Agudelo has secretly been the most dynamic player in the league this year. I'd rather have him than Valeri, Magee, Cahill, Morales or any of the other MVP candidates people talk about. His goal coversion/chances rate has been incredible and the difference between the Revs with him on the field and off is huge. There's a reason Diego Fagundez has had so much room to operate and get a bunch of attention from the media and fans. Agudelo has been great.

 

In fact, at this point it's even money as to who ends up the EPL season with the most goals, him or Altidore.

[USSoccer]

Is rather start giving those spots to Agudelo at this point.

Oh hell yeah. Agudelo has secretly been the most dynamic player in the league this year. I'd rather have him than Valeri, Magee, Cahill, Morales or any of the other MVP candidates people talk about. His goal coversion/chances rate has been incredible and the difference between the Revs with him on the field and off is huge. There's a reason Diego Fagundez has had so much room to operate and get a bunch of attention from the media and fans. Agudelo has been great.

 

In fact, at this point it's even money as to who ends up the EPL season with the most goals, him or Altidore.

 

+1 to all of this. Agudelo was very good this year.

 

Hopefully his work permit goes through and he completes the move to Stoke.

[wolf stansson]

Judging by the comments coming from Adrian Hanauer's presser today, heads are going to roll in Seattle this winter.