Please educate me

[DiamondMind]

 

Patterson's lack of plate discipline and situational hitting cancels out his OPS in my opinion.

 

how can his late of discipline "cancel out" his OPS? his lack of discipline is factored into OPS (thru OBP). that's like saying the outs a guy makes cancels out his batting average.

 

Patterson has hit about 8 million solo home runs.

[DiamondMind]

 

Pierre isn't a good leadoff or #2 hitter unless he can hit .325 because he can't get on base otherwise.

 

I don't think they are necessarily 'critical' to a teams success either, but something has to be said for the non-measurable attributes speed creates like annoying the crap out of the opposing pitcher and him throwing a fastball that catches too much of the plate.

 

Also, what can be said about players like '03 Lofton, '05 Damon/D. Roberts and '05 Podsednik directly leading to a teams playoff success?

I'll assume you mean '04 with Damon and Roberts (since that was the year the Sox won it all) and give you each guy's numbers for that season:

 

Lofton (with the Cubs) in 2003: 327/381/471

Damon in 04: 304/380/477, 20 home runs

Roberts (with the Sox) in 04: 256/330/442

Podsednik in 05: 290/351/349

 

The answers to your questions are: Lofton and Damon were shots in the arm because they got on base at over a .380 clip, and slugged nearly .500, which is pretty good for a CF, not because of "situational hitting" or stealing bases. (For Damon you also can add in the fact that he hit 20 homers, which any team can and should take out of their leadoff man or CF every time).

 

Roberts probably hurt the Sox more than he helped most of his time there except for that one stolen base, which clouds everyone's judgment on him.

 

Podsednik was no more than average for a leadoff hitter, and when you factor in that he was only 59/82 in SB (72 percent), his running around probably hurt the team more than it helped. Oh, and his .700 OPS was absolutely awful (AWFUL) for a LF. The fact that he is largely credited with that team's success is one of the biggest jokes in baseball history.

 

Sorry, yea, '04 - was trying to think of someone in each year in order there.

 

I won't respond to everything, but you can't tell me the White Sox would have won with C. Lee in LF instead of Podsednik leading off.

[Mark Priors Calves]

 

Patterson's lack of plate discipline and situational hitting cancels out his OPS in my opinion.

 

how can his late of discipline "cancel out" his OPS? his lack of discipline is factored into OPS (thru OBP). that's like saying the outs a guy makes cancels out his batting average.

 

Patterson has hit about 8 million solo home runs.

 

What does this have to do with what abuck asked? And what does it have to do with what you originially said?

[SouthSideRyan]

 

Patterson's lack of plate discipline and situational hitting cancels out his OPS in my opinion.

 

how can his late of discipline "cancel out" his OPS? his lack of discipline is factored into OPS (thru OBP). that's like saying the outs a guy makes cancels out his batting average.

 

Patterson has hit about 8 million solo home runs.

 

I'm going out to eat now, but when I get some time later tonight, I'm gonna check this claim. Something tells me Corey doesn't hit many more solo HRs than anyone else.

[Wolverineman]

I'm going out to eat now, but when I get some time later tonight, I'm gonna check this claim. Something tells me Corey doesn't hit many more solo HRs than anyone else.

 

 

I don't feel like looking through a ton of players, but here's just 5 people I picked. This is their % of career homers with runners on.

 

 

Corey Patterson: 42.7%

David Ortiz: 37.4%

Manny Ramirez: 51.2%

Alex Rodriguez: 46.9%

Adam Dunn: 42.2%

 

 

Obviously Corey's sample is much smaller than the rest, but he doesn't seem to do that bad.

 

 

On a somewhat unrelated note, has anyone else noticed that Adam Dunn is hitting .286/.435/.633 with RISP & 2 outs? Holy crap. Combine that with his numerous game winning hits this year, and I hope he's finally shed that silly "he isn't clutch!" label people always use against him.

[DiamondMind]

 

I'm going out to eat now, but when I get some time later tonight, I'm gonna check this claim. Something tells me Corey doesn't hit many more solo HRs than anyone else.

 

Sosa had the same problem. In the clutch, they both try too hard and chase pitches out of the zone. Sometimes they connect, but usually they strike out. With no runners on or with few outs in the inning, they're much more aggressive and likely to pop one out. This is probably a discussion for a new thread though.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Is that what we're doing now -- making up stats?

[stitchface]

 

Pierre isn't a good leadoff or #2 hitter unless he can hit .325 because he can't get on base otherwise.

 

I don't think they are necessarily 'critical' to a teams success either, but something has to be said for the non-measurable attributes speed creates like annoying the crap out of the opposing pitcher and him throwing a fastball that catches too much of the plate.

 

Also, what can be said about players like '03 Lofton, '05 Damon/D. Roberts and '05 Podsednik directly leading to a teams playoff success?

I'll assume you mean '04 with Damon and Roberts (since that was the year the Sox won it all) and give you each guy's numbers for that season:

 

Lofton (with the Cubs) in 2003: 327/381/471

Damon in 04: 304/380/477, 20 home runs

Roberts (with the Sox) in 04: 256/330/442

Podsednik in 05: 290/351/349

 

The answers to your questions are: Lofton and Damon were shots in the arm because they got on base at over a .380 clip, and slugged nearly .500, which is pretty good for a CF, not because of "situational hitting" or stealing bases. (For Damon you also can add in the fact that he hit 20 homers, which any team can and should take out of their leadoff man or CF every time).

 

Roberts probably hurt the Sox more than he helped most of his time there except for that one stolen base, which clouds everyone's judgment on him.

 

Podsednik was no more than average for a leadoff hitter, and when you factor in that he was only 59/82 in SB (72 percent), his running around probably hurt the team more than it helped. Oh, and his .700 OPS was absolutely awful (AWFUL) for a LF. The fact that he is largely credited with that team's success is one of the biggest jokes in baseball history.

 

Sorry, yea, '04 - was trying to think of someone in each year in order there.

 

I won't respond to everything, but you can't tell me the White Sox would have won with C. Lee in LF instead of Podsednik leading off.

 

the white sox would have won the world series with carlos lee leading off. do you even know that the white sox scored a large number fewer runs in 2005 than in 2004? Do you think that they were better by scoring fewer runs? Scott Podsednik may have had less to do with the Sox winning the world series than any player on the team (well, apply to regular season anyway).

[DiamondMind]

Is that what we're doing now -- making up stats?

 

I didn't think you'd take 8 million solo HR's literally.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Is that what we're doing now -- making up stats?

 

I didn't think you'd take 8 million solo HR's literally.

 

I didn't. I also know better than to think that Corey has a higher rate of solo HR's than most.

[DiamondMind]

Is that what we're doing now -- making up stats?

 

I didn't think you'd take 8 million solo HR's literally.

 

I didn't. I also know better than to think that Corey has a higher rate of solo HR's than most.

 

Is that what we're doing now -- making up stats?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Is that what we're doing now -- making up stats?

 

I didn't think you'd take 8 million solo HR's literally.

 

I didn't. I also know better than to think that Corey has a higher rate of solo HR's than most.

 

Is that what we're doing now -- making up stats?

[SouthSideRyan]

Is that what we're doing now -- making up stats?

 

I didn't think you'd take 8 million solo HR's literally.

 

I didn't. I also know better than to think that Corey has a higher rate of solo HR's than most.

 

Is that what we're doing now -- making up stats?

 

Well he didn't think you'd take it literally to mean that Corey hits more solo HRs than usual.