Some optimism about 2007.

[C.C.]

You act as if nobody questioned anything Hendry did before 2005

 

No, in 2005 is when people started to question Hendry. In 2003-04 he was considered gold from everything I read. And what do Dusty pitch counts have to do with Hendry? I'm not going to argue about this, because obvisouly we have vastly different views and/or memories about Hendry in first couple of years as the Cubs GM. Hey, if you saw Hendry faults from 2003 and on, you deserve Kudos! Because I sure didn't...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You act as if nobody questioned anything Hendry did before 2005

 

No, in 2005 is when people started to question Hendry. In 2003-04 he was considered gold from everything I read. And what do Dusty pitch counts have to do with Hendry? I'm not going to argue about this, because obvisouly we have vastly different views and/or memories about Hendry in first couple of years as the Cubs GM. Hey, if you saw Hendry faults from 2003 and on, you deserve Kudos! Because I sure didn't...

 

As someone who really didn't jump on the anti-Hendry bandwagon until around 2005, you're wrong. There were plenty of people up in arms with him prior to then.

[C.C.]

And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Who knew? Most of the members of this community. It was talked about more often than just any other topic DURING the 2003 season.

 

Feel free to dig through the posts in 2003. You'll find many discussions about the pitching abuse we all saw going on during that season.

 

What does pitching abuse in 2003 have to do with Hendry and the moves he made? Isn't that Dusty department?

[C.C.]

You act as if nobody questioned anything Hendry did before 2005

 

No, in 2005 is when people started to question Hendry. In 2003-04 he was considered gold from everything I read. And what do Dusty pitch counts have to do with Hendry? I'm not going to argue about this, because obvisouly we have vastly different views and/or memories about Hendry in first couple of years as the Cubs GM. Hey, if you saw Hendry faults from 2003 and on, you deserve Kudos! Because I sure didn't...

 

As someone who really didn't jump on the anti-Hendry bandwagon until around 2005, you're wrong. There were plenty of people up in arms with him prior to then.

 

Well of couse there is always going to be negative posters about anything no matter how postive things are going! The point I was making is the majority of people and media were overly postive about Hendry. I didn't just mean this forum?

[CubColtPacer]

You act as if nobody questioned anything Hendry did before 2005

 

No, in 2005 is when people started to question Hendry. In 2003-04 he was considered gold from everything I read. And what do Dusty pitch counts have to do with Hendry? I'm not going to argue about this, because obvisouly we have vastly different views and/or memories about Hendry in first couple of years as the Cubs GM. Hey, if you saw Hendry faults from 2003 and on, you deserve Kudos! Because I sure didn't...

 

There were a few voices of dissension for Hendry even in 03 and 04-most of those were from his hiring of Baker-but even that move was still agreed as a good move by the majority of people at the time. There were very few people criticizing Hendry for anything else until the end of the season in 2004, and most people considered him to be an excellent GM. At that point, the Sammy controversy started to really heat up, and questions about Hendry really started to heat up-and it has been exacerbated by the lack of anything more then mediocre moves in the 05 and 06 offseason along with getting nothing worth anything in the 05 offseason. Hendry has also been dragged down by his refusal to fire Baker so far.

[BigbadB]

See you are talking about when things starting to go down hill for the Org. when you say fragile young arms, because in 2003 they weren't fragile. And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Did you not say this? The pitching abuse responses are because of this post. Where is Hendry's name mentioned in this post?

[C.C.]

See you are talking about when things starting to go down hill for the Org. when you say fragile young arms, because in 2003 they weren't fragile. And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Did you not say this? The pitching abuse responses are because of this post. Where is Hendry's name mentioned in this post?

 

Dude, what are you talking about! You are saying that Hendry should have a crystal ball and known that Prior and Wood would go down in 2004? That's what I meant. And where in that post did I mention the pitcher abusing was Hendry's fault? Lord knows we have enough threads about Dusty's abusing our pitching...

[USSoccer]

See you are talking about when things starting to go down hill for the Org. when you say fragile young arms, because in 2003 they weren't fragile. And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Did you not say this? The pitching abuse responses are because of this post. Where is Hendry's name mentioned in this post?

 

Dude, what are you talking about! You are saying that Hendry should have a crystal ball and known that Prior and Wood would go down in 2004? That's what I meant. And where in that post did I mention the pitcher abusing was Hendry's fault? Lord knows we have enough threads about Dusty's abusing our pitching...

 

There are instances where Hendry would have been well within his authority as GM to tell Dusty to put a hard cap on pitches for the 3 most important building blocks of our franchise in 2003. Theo Epstein and John Henry did this with Pedro Martinez in the 2003 ALCS, and the manager's decision to go beyond that hard limit was the reason Grady Little was fired. Hendry didn't do this. We're now seeing what happens when you run a guy with questionable mechanics into the ground, at times for no reason, and we're seeing what happens when a ridiculous workload coupled with freak injuries happen to a young pitcher.

 

Now, obviously Hendry wasn't going to fire Baker after 2003, but to say these injuries aren't an organizational failure is incorrect. Hendry has his share of blame for not asserting his authority to protect important players from overuse and injury.

Edited August 15, 2006 by USSoccer

[goonys evil twin]

See you are talking about when things starting to go down hill for the Org. when you say fragile young arms, because in 2003 they weren't fragile. And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Did you not say this? The pitching abuse responses are because of this post. Where is Hendry's name mentioned in this post?

 

Dude, what are you talking about! You are saying that Hendry should have a crystal ball and known that Prior and Wood would go down in 2004? That's what I meant. And where in that post did I mention the pitcher abusing was Hendry's fault? Lord knows we have enough threads about Dusty's abusing our pitching...

 

Dusty's abuse was known to the public prior to Hendry hiring him, and he hired him anyway. Furthermore, he did nothing to prevent the abuse.

 

He put a tank of gas and a books of matches in a wooden house occupied by an arsonist. If you can't see the correlation between Hendry and pitching abuse you aren't looking.

 

The Cubs decided to put this team's fate on the arms of some very young pitchers. They put in charge of those players a guy with a reputation of overusing pitchers to an extreme degree. It was a match made in hell, and that fact was pointed out long before 2005.

[C.C.]

See you are talking about when things starting to go down hill for the Org. when you say fragile young arms, because in 2003 they weren't fragile. And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Did you not say this? The pitching abuse responses are because of this post. Where is Hendry's name mentioned in this post?

 

Dude, what are you talking about! You are saying that Hendry should have a crystal ball and known that Prior and Wood would go down in 2004? That's what I meant. And where in that post did I mention the pitcher abusing was Hendry's fault? Lord knows we have enough threads about Dusty's abusing our pitching...

 

There are instances where Hendry would have been well within his authority as GM to tell Dusty to put a hard cap on pitches for the 3 most important building blocks of our franchise in 2003. Theo Epstein and John Henry did this with Pedro Martinez in the 2003 ALCS, and the manager's decision to go beyond that hard limit was the reason Grady Little was fired. Hendry didn't do this. We're now seeing what happens when you run a guy with questionable mechanics into the ground, at times for no reason, and we're seeing what happens when a ridiculous workload coupled with freak injuries happen to a young pitcher.

 

Now, obviously Hendry wasn't going to fire Baker after 2003, but to say these injuries aren't an organizational failure is incorrect. Hendry has his share of blame for not asserting his authority to protect important players from overuse and injury.

 

How did this thread turn into another thread about abusing pitchers?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

See you are talking about when things starting to go down hill for the Org. when you say fragile young arms, because in 2003 they weren't fragile. And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Did you not say this? The pitching abuse responses are because of this post. Where is Hendry's name mentioned in this post?

 

Dude, what are you talking about! You are saying that Hendry should have a crystal ball and known that Prior and Wood would go down in 2004? That's what I meant. And where in that post did I mention the pitcher abusing was Hendry's fault? Lord knows we have enough threads about Dusty's abusing our pitching...

 

There are instances where Hendry would have been well within his authority as GM to tell Dusty to put a hard cap on pitches for the 3 most important building blocks of our franchise in 2003. Theo Epstein and John Henry did this with Pedro Martinez in the 2003 ALCS, and the manager's decision to go beyond that hard limit was the reason Grady Little was fired. Hendry didn't do this. We're now seeing what happens when you run a guy with questionable mechanics into the ground, at times for no reason, and we're seeing what happens when a ridiculous workload coupled with freak injuries happen to a young pitcher.

 

Now, obviously Hendry wasn't going to fire Baker after 2003, but to say these injuries aren't an organizational failure is incorrect. Hendry has his share of blame for not asserting his authority to protect important players from overuse and injury.

 

How did this thread turn into another thread about abusing pitchers?

 

Shortly after someone said that everyone thought Hendry was a genius until a couple of months ago.

[C.C.]

See you are talking about when things starting to go down hill for the Org. when you say fragile young arms, because in 2003 they weren't fragile. And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Did you not say this? The pitching abuse responses are because of this post. Where is Hendry's name mentioned in this post?

 

Dude, what are you talking about! You are saying that Hendry should have a crystal ball and known that Prior and Wood would go down in 2004? That's what I meant. And where in that post did I mention the pitcher abusing was Hendry's fault? Lord knows we have enough threads about Dusty's abusing our pitching...

 

There are instances where Hendry would have been well within his authority as GM to tell Dusty to put a hard cap on pitches for the 3 most important building blocks of our franchise in 2003. Theo Epstein and John Henry did this with Pedro Martinez in the 2003 ALCS, and the manager's decision to go beyond that hard limit was the reason Grady Little was fired. Hendry didn't do this. We're now seeing what happens when you run a guy with questionable mechanics into the ground, at times for no reason, and we're seeing what happens when a ridiculous workload coupled with freak injuries happen to a young pitcher.

 

Now, obviously Hendry wasn't going to fire Baker after 2003, but to say these injuries aren't an organizational failure is incorrect. Hendry has his share of blame for not asserting his authority to protect important players from overuse and injury.

 

How did this thread turn into another thread about abusing pitchers?

 

Shortly after someone said that everyone thought Hendry was a genius until a couple of months ago.

 

Who said that? A couple of months ago? I said that in 2003-04 Hendry was considered a genius by some, and highly respected GM. You love to read what you think\want to read don't you?

[Laura]

How did this thread turn into another thread about abusing pitchers?

 

Shortly after someone said that everyone thought Hendry was a genius until a couple of months ago.

 

When we look at back at Hendry's legacy with the Cubs, that may be all that's left.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Who said that? A couple of months ago? I said that in 2003-04 Hendry was considered a genius by some, and highly respected GM. You love to read what you think\want to read don't you?

 

Yes, that's got to be it.

[USSoccer]

Who said that? A couple of months ago? I said that in 2003-04 Hendry was considered a genius by some, and highly respected GM. You love to read what you think\want to read don't you?

 

See you are talking about when things starting to go down hill for the Org. when you say fragile young arms, because in 2003 they weren't fragile. And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Furthermore, in any thread discussing Hendry it is perfectly reasonable to discuss this organizational failure.

[Backtobanks]

I do believe that Hendry can turn this team around this off season. People are tired of excuses, but you have to admit that the Cubs have had more than their share of devastating injuries the last few years. As for all of the people who claim that Hendry wasn't considered one of the "genius GMs", go back and look at all of the sports stories. Anybody who gets the CUBS to a playoff after all those years would have to be considered a miracle worker.

[forbez18]

It is fair to say that Hendry was at the top of the game a few years back, he had the Cubs ready to win the world series and not matter what anyone says it was very close to happening. I know I would have tradded grinding Prior into the ground and Wood never being the same guy again "if" they would have won the World Series.

 

However, they didn't they failed just like they seem to do every year. The problem is Hendry didn't see the long run and that there are little things that can happen to throw a team off track and that is why you have to have a team that can get lucky and win the World Series each and every year, just incase one year a fan knocks down a ball that could send you to the Championship, or if a SS makes a big error, or if a starting pitcher goes down.

 

At the time it looked like he could do no wrong and if the Cubs would have won it that year, there would be no looking back at him. But, he can't stop at his past performances he needs to earn credit every year, and he has failed in the past two years. It is acceptable to judge an athlete, manager, or GM based on performance thats the great thing about sports, and right now we all know what the reaction to Jim should be.

[soccer10k]

I try to control my optimism for the Cubs because each year I end up disappointed.

[C.C.]

Who said that? A couple of months ago? I said that in 2003-04 Hendry was considered a genius by some, and highly respected GM. You love to read what you think\want to read don't you?

 

See you are talking about when things starting to go down hill for the Org. when you say fragile young arms, because in 2003 they weren't fragile. And who knew in 2004 they would all start breaking down. Hell in 2004 SI front cover had us winning the World Series.

 

Furthermore, in any thread discussing Hendry it is perfectly reasonable to discuss this organizational failure.

 

Of course it is, but that wasn't my point.

[C.C.]

Who said that? A couple of months ago? I said that in 2003-04 Hendry was considered a genius by some, and highly respected GM. You love to read what you think\want to read don't you?

 

Yes, that's got to be it.

 

It becomes pretty obvious once you actually read what people write, instead of taking unwarranted jabs.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Who said that? A couple of months ago? I said that in 2003-04 Hendry was considered a genius by some, and highly respected GM. You love to read what you think\want to read don't you?

 

Yes, that's got to be it.

 

It becomes pretty obvious once you actually read what people write, instead of taking unwarranted jabs.

 

Don't give me any garbage about unwarranted jabs. Nobody took a jab. You had been spouting nonsense in this thread that Hendry was a genius then an up-and-coming superstar from 2003-2005. Hendry has had his fair share of detractors since he was named GM, and just because you remember it differently doesn't make it so. The quotes below lead me to believe that you actually believe that "everyone thought Hendry was a genius until a couple of months ago".

 

I remember a time when Hendry was a Genius

 

I never heard claims of him as an up and coming best GM. His critics were numerous from day one, even though I chose to ignore them and only focus on the bright side. I think people thought he was capable of being a good GM, but there was never a general perception that he was a genius or close to the elite.

 

Then we remember things differently.

 

In Chicago, from 2003-2005, this guy could do no wrong in the minds of most fans here...

 

That's the memory I had also. Where did you read anything negative about Hendry in that time span Goon?

 

The "Genius" label was more from the fans...But generally the public and print media was overally positive about hendry. How could you not be at that time?

[David]

Who said that? A couple of months ago? I said that in 2003-04 Hendry was considered a genius by some, and highly respected GM. You love to read what you think\want to read don't you?

 

Yes, that's got to be it.

 

It becomes pretty obvious once you actually read what people write, instead of taking unwarranted jabs.

 

Don't give me any garbage about unwarranted jabs. Nobody took a jab. You had been spouting nonsense in this thread that Hendry was a genius then an up-and-coming superstar from 2003-2005. Hendry has had his fair share of detractors since he was named GM, and just because you remember it differently doesn't make it so. The quotes below lead me to believe that you actually believe that "everyone thought Hendry was a genius until a couple of months ago".

 

I remember a time when Hendry was a Genius

 

I never heard claims of him as an up and coming best GM. His critics were numerous from day one, even though I chose to ignore them and only focus on the bright side. I think people thought he was capable of being a good GM, but there was never a general perception that he was a genius or close to the elite.

 

Then we remember things differently.

 

In Chicago, from 2003-2005, this guy could do no wrong in the minds of most fans here...

 

That's the memory I had also. Where did you read anything negative about Hendry in that time span Goon?

 

The "Genius" label was more from the fans...But generally the public and print media was overally positive about hendry. How could you not be at that time?

 

 

QFT

[C.C.]

The quotes below lead me to believe that you actually believe that "everyone thought Hendry was a genius until a couple of months ago".

 

So from those quotes you can make a broad assumtion that I think everyone thought he was a genius up until 3-4 months ago? Don't assume what people think.

 

 

No, in 2005 is when people started to question Hendry. In 2003-04 he was considered gold from everything I read.

 

Does this sound like I thought he was a genius until a couple of months ago. You pick and choose what you want to believe instead of actually reading what I said...

[goonys evil twin]

 

No, in 2005 is when people started to question Hendry. In 2003-04 he was considered gold from everything I read.

 

Does this sound like I thought he was a genius until a couple of months ago. You pick and choose what you want to believe instead of actually reading what I said...

 

If that's true, you didn't read much but cubs.com headlines then. Hendry has been questioned throughout. You never read anybody question the Baker hiring? His infatuation with tools? His ignorance of patience/walks/OBP? His insistence on overpaying for mediocrity and garbage?

[C.C.]

 

No, in 2005 is when people started to question Hendry. In 2003-04 he was considered gold from everything I read.

 

Does this sound like I thought he was a genius until a couple of months ago. You pick and choose what you want to believe instead of actually reading what I said...

 

If that's true, you didn't read much but cubs.com headlines then. Hendry has been questioned throughout. You never read anybody question the Baker hiring? His infatuation with tools? His ignorance of patience/walks/OBP? His insistence on overpaying for mediocrity and garbage?

 

I said Generally as said here:

 

But generally the public and print media was overally positive about hendry.

 

And once again here:

 

Well of couse there is always going to be negative posters about anything no matter how postive things are going! The point I was making is the majority of people and media were overly postive about Hendry.

 

I never said that nothing was ever said negative about him.

Edited August 15, 2006 by C.C.