08/05 Pitts (Duke) @ CUBS (Prior) 3:05 pm CDT CSN TV

[KingCubsFan]

Let's not throw Cedeno under the bus quite yet. Baserunning and defense are skills that can be taught by repetition. It's not they have to teach him how to run faster. I think the Cubs would be best served by keeping him and upgrading heavily in a starter, CF or RF. I'd take .275/.330/.420 from Ronny next year. It's not optimal but it's efficient for $350,000. He's still young and could improve more than that.

That's better than paying your shortstop 4.5 million to do that. Oh, wait...

[Jon]

He was out and yet there's absolutely no argument from the bench.

 

Really? Pat and Ron said that Dusty came out to argue-at least that's what I thought I heard.

Unless I turned away and missed it, but I didn't see anyone come out. But Cedeno did have the bag when he got the ball.

[CUBZ99]

He was out and yet there's absolutely no argument from the bench.

 

Really? Pat and Ron said that Dusty came out to argue-at least that's what I thought I heard.

 

They also said it was clear that he came off the bag too early, so that the ump made the right call.

[CubColtPacer]

Let's not throw Cedeno under the bus quite yet. Baserunning and defense are skills that can be taught by repetition. It's not they have to teach him how to run faster. I think the Cubs would be best served by keeping him and upgrading heavily in a starter, CF or RF. I'd take .275/.330/.420 from Ronny next year. It's not optimal but it's efficient for $350,000. He's still young and could improve more than that.

 

I'd take that from Cedeno as well next year. I'm just not sure he can improve that much for next year-that would be a huge jump for him from this year. I think he can reach those numbers over his career-I'm just not sure we want to wait 2-3 years for those numbers.

[Sarcastic]

Was that run earned or unearned?

[Garwilly]

He was out and yet there's absolutely no argument from the bench.

 

Really? Pat and Ron said that Dusty came out to argue-at least that's what I thought I heard.

Unless I turned away and missed it, but I didn't see anyone come out. But Cedeno did have the bag when he got the ball.

 

My Tivo disagrees.

[A New Era]

Let's not throw Cedeno under the bus quite yet. Baserunning and defense are skills that can be taught by repetition. It's not they have to teach him how to run faster. I think the Cubs would be best served by keeping him and upgrading heavily in a starter, CF or RF. I'd take .275/.330/.420 from Ronny next year. It's not optimal but it's efficient for $350,000. He's still young and could improve more than that.

That's better than paying your shortstop 4.5 million to do that. Oh, wait...

 

:lol: Well, I agree with this assessment. Get a REALLY good bat for either LF or RF and get a really good SP. And this team could honestly be competitive.

[A New Era]

There's the double play combo. Albiet a tailor made one. But a DP either way. .

[cheapseats]

I'd take .275/.330/.420 from Ronny next year. It's not optimal but it's efficient for $350,000. He's still young and could improve more than that.

 

.275/.330/.420 is higher than PECOTA's weighted mean projection for Ronny next year, but that prediction was made before the beginning of this year. Right now Ronny is playing below his 25th percentile projection, and I expect that his expected performance will be revised downward.

 

This team needs more than a starter and an outfielder to be a playoff team next year. As things stand right now, we'll be well below average at SS, 2B, LF, and CF. And that's if Aramis comes back. Unlike many here, I would bet against it at this point.

[CubColtPacer]

Let's not throw Cedeno under the bus quite yet. Baserunning and defense are skills that can be taught by repetition. It's not they have to teach him how to run faster. I think the Cubs would be best served by keeping him and upgrading heavily in a starter, CF or RF. I'd take .275/.330/.420 from Ronny next year. It's not optimal but it's efficient for $350,000. He's still young and could improve more than that.

That's better than paying your shortstop 4.5 million to do that. Oh, wait...

 

:lol: Well, I agree with this assessment. Get a REALLY good bat for either LF or RF and get a really good SP. And this team could honestly be competitive.

 

I would agree with that-as long as we upgraded the bench as well. We'd be in trouble next year again if we lost one of our 4-5 major bats in that scenario-so a good bench could somewhat alleviate that.

[Sarcastic]

Let's not throw Cedeno under the bus quite yet. Baserunning and defense are skills that can be taught by repetition. It's not they have to teach him how to run faster. I think the Cubs would be best served by keeping him and upgrading heavily in a starter, CF or RF. I'd take .275/.330/.420 from Ronny next year. It's not optimal but it's efficient for $350,000. He's still young and could improve more than that.

That's better than paying your shortstop 4.5 million to do that. Oh, wait...

 

:lol: Well, I agree with this assessment. Get a REALLY good bat for either LF or RF and get a really good SP. And this team could honestly be competitive.

 

I don't think Cedeno is likely to do that. That would be a big increase in walk rate on Cedeno's part. He seems like more of a slap hitter who would have to rely on putting the ball in play.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Let's not throw Cedeno under the bus quite yet. Baserunning and defense are skills that can be taught by repetition. It's not they have to teach him how to run faster. I think the Cubs would be best served by keeping him and upgrading heavily in a starter, CF or RF. I'd take .275/.330/.420 from Ronny next year. It's not optimal but it's efficient for $350,000. He's still young and could improve more than that.

 

I'd love to get that from Ronny next year...... but it sure doesn't look like he's moving in the right direction.

 

Cedeno             AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
04/03 - 05/13     128   11   38    6    3    1   53    9    4   23  0.297  0.318  0.414  0.732
05/14 - 06/23     129   13   32    2    2    1   41   11    5   21  0.248  0.274  0.318  0.592
06/24 - 08/04     107    9   20    2    0    1   25    5    3   30  0.187  0.221  0.234  0.455

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If Izturis is at SS next year, and all indications are that he will be, you cannot go with Cedeno at 2B. You just can't. It sucks for Ronny that Maddux got traded for a more expensive version of himself, but as long as Hendry doesn't try to start both of them in the same IF, then the only thing we've lost from the trade was the opportunity for more for Maddux, and 4 million bucks. Edited August 5, 2006 by Transmogrified Tiger

[CubColtPacer]

For those that can see-how does Prior look? It sounds like it has been ground balls and strikeouts so far-any balls hit pretty hard?

[Jon]

For those that can see-how does Prior look? It sounds like it has been ground balls and strikeouts so far-any balls hit pretty hard?

Pretty good before that hanging 0-2 curve to Duke. A lot of ground balls. Not great control, but decent movement and velocity on his fastball.

[cheapseats]

For those that can see-how does Prior look?

 

http://mark-prior-news.newslib.com/img/logo/3172.jpg

 

Dreamy, just dreamy.

[CUBZ99]

If Izturis is at SS next year, and all indications are that he will be, you cannot go with Cedeno at 2B. You just can't. It sucks for Ronny that he got traded for a more expensive version of himself, but as long as Hendry doesn't try to start both of them in the same IF, then the only thing we've lost from the trade was the opportunity for more for Maddux, and 4 million bucks.

 

Completely agree. It is sad for Ronny, but the Cubs can't afford to go into next year with him penciled in at 2B. I wonder what his trade value will be in the offseason? Other teams announcers are always commenting on how much they like him as a young player, maybe he has some value.

[A New Era]

For those that can see-how does Prior look? It sounds like it has been ground balls and strikeouts so far-any balls hit pretty hard?

 

Well the pitcher just hit one hard, that got over pierre's head.

[ToupeeOnFire]

He was out and yet there's absolutely no argument from the bench.

 

Really? Pat and Ron said that Dusty came out to argue-at least that's what I thought I heard.

 

They also said it was clear that he came off the bag too early, so that the ump made the right call.

I have not seen the play, but when was the last time an ump ruled that the fielder missed the bag on the double play pivot? I've seen it so often where the fielder misses the bag (where it's not really even close), yet he is given credit for the putout. I hate when the umps decide to selectively enforce the rules.

[cheapseats]

 

Completely agree. It is sad for Ronny, but the Cubs can't afford to go into next year with him penciled in at 2B. I wonder what his trade value will be in the offseason?

 

He would have had a lot more value in the past offseason. A lot of smart baseball people thought he had a bright future before this season. He may still have one, but his value is much lower at 2B (where more offense is expected) than SS. The trade for Izturis is awful b/c we've already got Cedeno at 1/10 the price, and it makes Cedeno expendable at a time when his value is lower than it used to be.

 

In short, I expect Hendry to go out and get an Andy Pratt type talent.

[CubColtPacer]

He was out and yet there's absolutely no argument from the bench.

 

Really? Pat and Ron said that Dusty came out to argue-at least that's what I thought I heard.

 

They also said it was clear that he came off the bag too early, so that the ump made the right call.

I have not seen the play, but when was the last time an ump ruled that the fielder missed the bag on the double play pivot? I've seen it so often where the fielder misses the bag (where it's not really even close), yet he is given credit for the putout. I hate when the umps decide to selectively enforce the rules.

 

The last one I remember is when we lost a game in the 9th because the ump called we missed the bag at 2nd-we did by about 4-5 inches, but like you said, they never call that-anybody remember that game? 2-3 years ago approx.

[CubColtPacer]

 

Completely agree. It is sad for Ronny, but the Cubs can't afford to go into next year with him penciled in at 2B. I wonder what his trade value will be in the offseason?

 

He would have had a lot more value in the past offseason. A lot of smart baseball people thought he had a bright future before this season. He may still have one, but his value is much lower at 2B (where more offense is expected) than SS. The trade for Izturis is awful b/c we've already got Cedeno at 1/10 the price, and it makes Cedeno expendable at a time when his value is lower than it used to be.

 

In short, I expect Hendry to go out and get an Andy Pratt type talent.

 

His trade value will be lower than last season-but if he is traded, I expect it will be for his value as a SS not a 2b..so I don't see that as much of a problem. The best way to get value for Cedeno might be to package him in a deal with another player for a LF/2B.

[Sarcastic]

For those that can see-how does Prior look? It sounds like it has been ground balls and strikeouts so far-any balls hit pretty hard?

 

Well the pitcher just hit one hard, that got over pierre's head.

 

His stuff and control look better. Most of the hits were groundballs. The one he gave up to the pitcher was his worst pitch, a hanging curveball right around the middle of the zone. Other than that, he's improved a lot.

[CubColtPacer]

Pagan has quietly had a pretty good season in very limited at bats:

81 AB's-.287/.337/.438

 

And of course he gets picked off as soon as I try to make a good post about him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Did you know:

 

Pagan is hitting .300/.363/.483/.846 since he returned from injury. (66 PA's)

 

EDIT: It also looks like he could benefit from abondoning the right side of the plate.