When Does Pierre's performance start to win people over?

Mizzou · August 3, 2006

Pierre sucked the first two months of the season, everyone knows that. But he's sort of offset that first two month slump (if you will) by having two real nice months in June in July. Depending on how he performs in the final two months, I'd entertain the idea of bringing him back.

RonnieWooWooSanto · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him.

Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter.

Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back.

Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions:

1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role.
2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take.

Dave Roberts would be cost efficient until Pie is ready.

MPrior · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

We could go get Mark Loretta - he's not hugely special, but he's pretty certain to put up a decent OBP, won't cost too much in years or money, and has a chance of regaining some of his power. And we've got a hole at 2B (Cedeno is not the answer at 2B if Izturis is at SS). Bat Loretta leadoff and Murton 2nd.

CaliforniaRaisin · August 3, 2006

Pierre sucked the first two months of the season, everyone knows that. But he's sort of offset that first two month slump (if you will) by having two real nice months in June in July. Depending on how he performs in the final two months, I'd entertain the idea of bringing him back.

What does he need to do to offset his previous crap seasons?

baseball7897 · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him.

Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter.

Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back.

Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions:

1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role.
2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take.

Dave Roberts would be cost efficient until Pie is ready.

How is Roberts any better than Pierre?

Sarcastic · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him.

Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter.

Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back.

Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions:

1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role.
2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take.

Dave Roberts would be cost efficient until Pie is ready.

Roberts is getting old. I don't know how much longer he'll keep up the improvement that he's shown in the last two years, considering his age. How much does he stand to make?

CaliforniaRaisin · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him.

Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter.

Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back.

Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions:

1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role.
2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take.

Dave Roberts would be cost efficient until Pie is ready.

How is Roberts any better than Pierre?

Roberts: .302/.379/.423/.802, 31/35 in SBs, 36 BBs/32 SOs

Pierre: .281/.326/.380/.706, 38/50 in SBs, 29 BBs/ 38 SOs

RonnieWooWooSanto · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him.

Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter.

Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back.

Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions:

1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role.
2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take.

Dave Roberts would be cost efficient until Pie is ready.

How is Roberts any better than Pierre?

-His obp has been better the past few years.

-He draws more walks

-He's cheaper

It would allow a transition to Pie.

baseball7897 · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him.

Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter.

Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back.

Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions:

1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role.
2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take.

Dave Roberts would be cost efficient until Pie is ready.

How is Roberts any better than Pierre?

Roberts: .302/.379/.423/.802, 31/35 in SBs
Pierre: .281/.326/.380/.706, 38/50 in SBs

Roberts has a career .263 average

Pierre has a career .305 average

RonnieWooWooSanto · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him.

Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter.

Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back.

Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions:

1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role.
2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take.

Dave Roberts would be cost efficient until Pie is ready.

Roberts is getting old. I don't know how much longer he'll keep up the improvement that he's shown in the last two years, considering his age. How much does he stand to make?

Hopefully it would just be for next near and lead to a transition into Pie at CF. I believe as of right now that Roberts makes about 2.3mil for this year compared to Pierre's 6 million.

sethuel1 · August 3, 2006

Roberts has a career .263 average
Pierre has a career .305 average

Good god, man! How hard is it? If you want your protoypical "leadoff" hitters, and you're going to narrow it down to speedy guys, then your #1 priority is to get a guy that gets on base. And guess what? Roberts gets on base more.

batting average with get you laughed off this board anyway, but it'll especially get you laughed off this board when YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FREAKING LEADOFF HITTERS.

in fact, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

baseball7897 · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him.

Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter.

Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back.

Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions:

1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role.
2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take.

Dave Roberts would be cost efficient until Pie is ready.

Roberts is getting old. I don't know how much longer he'll keep up the improvement that he's shown in the last two years, considering his age. How much does he stand to make?

Hopefully it would just be for next near and lead to a transition into Pie at CF. I believe as of right now that Roberts makes about 2.3mil for this year compared to Pierre's 6 million.

Im willing to deal Pie for a impact bat, or a solid SP. He is just a prospect. No gurantee he will be a solid player.

Drew Doughty · August 3, 2006

Roberts has a career .263 average
Pierre has a career .305 average

AVG is a horrible way -- on it's own -- to judge a hitter.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Drew Doughty

baseball7897 · August 3, 2006

Roberts has a career .263 average
Pierre has a career .305 average

Good god, man! How hard is it? If you want your protoypical "leadoff" hitters, and you're going to narrow it down to speedy guys, then your #1 priority is to get a guy that gets on base. And guess what? Roberts gets on base more.

batting average with get you laughed off this board anyway, but it'll especially get you laughed off this board when YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FREAKING LEADOFF HITTERS.

in fact, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is it wrong to have a different opinion??

*edit* in fact im the only person it seems like has a different opinion.

I have been here long enough to realize, the majority of people on this site all have the same opinion.

Edited August 3, 2006 by baseball7897

sethuel1 · August 3, 2006

Roberts has a career .263 average
Pierre has a career .305 average

Good god, man! How hard is it? If you want your protoypical "leadoff" hitters, and you're going to narrow it down to speedy guys, then your #1 priority is to get a guy that gets on base. And guess what? Roberts gets on base more.

batting average with get you laughed off this board anyway, but it'll especially get you laughed off this board when YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FREAKING LEADOFF HITTERS.

in fact, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is it wrong to have a different opinion??

If that opinion is that Pierre is better than Roberts because of the differences in their career batting average, then yes.

CaliforniaRaisin · August 3, 2006

How is Roberts any better than Pierre?

Roberts: .302/.379/.423/.802, 31/35 in SBs
Pierre: .281/.326/.380/.706, 38/50 in SBs

Roberts has a career .263 average
Pierre has a career .305 average

Roberts' career OBP: .346

Pierre's career OBP: .351

Roberts' career IsoD: .087

Pierre's career IsoD: .046

Roberts the last 3 seasons: .278/.358

Pierre the last 3 seasons: .296/.340

OBP is what I'm concerned about with my leadoff hitters..

And of course, Roberts is a more cost-effective option for leadoff hitter and CF.

Personally, I'd prefer Loretta leading off.

Sarcastic · August 3, 2006

Roberts has a career .263 average
Pierre has a career .305 average

Good god, man! How hard is it? If you want your protoypical "leadoff" hitters, and you're going to narrow it down to speedy guys, then your #1 priority is to get a guy that gets on base. And guess what? Roberts gets on base more.

batting average with get you laughed off this board anyway, but it'll especially get you laughed off this board when YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FREAKING LEADOFF HITTERS.

in fact, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is it wrong to have a different opinion??

Of course it is. What, did you think this forum was for debate?

But seriously, OBP is a much more important stat for a leadoff hitter than average. Especially for the guy who hardly ever bats with anyone on base, a walk is just as good as a single. That said, I don't know if I believe that Roberts will be any good next year. He is going to be 35, whereas Pierre will still be under 30. I think my preference would depend on the contract given out. If the team could do much with the money saved by going after Roberts, then by all means, do it.

baseball7897 · August 3, 2006

Roberts has a career .263 average
Pierre has a career .305 average

Good god, man! How hard is it? If you want your protoypical "leadoff" hitters, and you're going to narrow it down to speedy guys, then your #1 priority is to get a guy that gets on base. And guess what? Roberts gets on base more.

batting average with get you laughed off this board anyway, but it'll especially get you laughed off this board when YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FREAKING LEADOFF HITTERS.

in fact, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is it wrong to have a different opinion??

Of course it is. What, did you think this forum was for debate?

But seriously, OBP is a much more important stat for a leadoff hitter than average. Especially for the guy who hardly ever bats with anyone on base, a walk is just as good as a single. That said, I don't know if I believe that Roberts will be any good next year. He is going to be 35, whereas Pierre will still be under 30. I think my preference would depend on the contract given out. If the team could do much with the money saved by ging after Roberts, then by all means, do it.

I was just giving some info on the two players. Then I was attacked for having a different opinion. Seriously man that is messed up.

Drew Doughty · August 3, 2006

Roberts has a career .263 average
Pierre has a career .305 average

Good god, man! How hard is it? If you want your protoypical "leadoff" hitters, and you're going to narrow it down to speedy guys, then your #1 priority is to get a guy that gets on base. And guess what? Roberts gets on base more.

batting average with get you laughed off this board anyway, but it'll especially get you laughed off this board when YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FREAKING LEADOFF HITTERS.

in fact, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is it wrong to have a different opinion??

Of course it is. What, did you think this forum was for debate?

But seriously, OBP is a much more important stat for a leadoff hitter than average. Especially for the guy who hardly ever bats with anyone on base, a walk is just as good as a single. That said, I don't know if I believe that Roberts will be any good next year. He is going to be 35, whereas Pierre will still be under 30. I think my preference would depend on the contract given out. If the team could do much with the money saved by ging after Roberts, then by all means, do it.

I was just giving some info on the two players. Then I was attacked for having a different opinion. Seriously man that is messed up.

No you weren't. You were "attacked" for using a horrible stat to judge a hitter.

Transmogrified Tiger · August 3, 2006

Loretta away from Fenway this year: .268/.321/.323/.644

I still like the idea of seeing what Moore would like for DeJesus. Or getting Catalanotto to play LF or 2B(get him first then you get whichever position you can fill the best). Maybe even seeing how Murton would be defensively in CF.

baseball7897 · August 3, 2006

Roberts has a career .263 average
Pierre has a career .305 average

Good god, man! How hard is it? If you want your protoypical "leadoff" hitters, and you're going to narrow it down to speedy guys, then your #1 priority is to get a guy that gets on base. And guess what? Roberts gets on base more.

batting average with get you laughed off this board anyway, but it'll especially get you laughed off this board when YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FREAKING LEADOFF HITTERS.

in fact, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is it wrong to have a different opinion??

Of course it is. What, did you think this forum was for debate?

But seriously, OBP is a much more important stat for a leadoff hitter than average. Especially for the guy who hardly ever bats with anyone on base, a walk is just as good as a single. That said, I don't know if I believe that Roberts will be any good next year. He is going to be 35, whereas Pierre will still be under 30. I think my preference would depend on the contract given out. If the team could do much with the money saved by ging after Roberts, then by all means, do it.

I was just giving some info on the two players. Then I was attacked for having a different opinion. Seriously man that is messed up.

No you weren't. You were "attacked" for using a horrible stat to judge a hitter.

Come one. The guy attacked me because I had a different opinion. No one should question someone's opinion. You can, but dont make it public. Just in real life, if I seen that guy and he laughed at my opinion, I dont think I would be as nice as im trying to be towards him.

Transmogrified Tiger · August 3, 2006

No one should question someone's opinion. You can, but dont make it public.

What?

Flames24Rulz · August 3, 2006

Loretta away from Fenway this year: .268/.321/.323/.644

I still like the idea of seeing what Moore would like for DeJesus. Or getting Catalanotto to play LF or 2B(get him first then you get whichever position you can fill the best). Maybe even seeing how Murton would be defensively in CF.

DeJesus sounds interesting. The only problem with that is that I fear KC will want everything and the kitchen sink for DeJesus. Other than that, I'd like to at least inquire about him.

ConstableRabbit · August 3, 2006

No one should question someone's opinion. You can, but dont make it public.

What?

:lol:

Drew Doughty · August 3, 2006

Come one. The guy attacked me because I had a different opinion. No one should question someone's opinion. You can, but dont make it public. Just in real life, if I seen that guy and he laughed at my opinion, I dont think I would be as nice as im trying to be towards him.

Well, it's actually a combination of the fact you used batting average AND the fact that you're actually arguing that Pierre would be a better lead-off hitter at this point. If you're going to argue that point, say that Pierre will improve because he's younger and the last two years are fluky or say that Roberts is ancient, but don't use batting average.

And really, don't question anyone else's opinion? Are you kidding?

When Does Pierre's performance start to win people over?

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