Bruce's lastest article 8/1

[jtownie]

In all fairness, I believe the Cubs tried the prospect route first and the Dodgers wouldn't budge. As many here have said, who could blame them?

 

didn't hendry say on the air last night that he refused a prospect deal?

 

Actually I've read in a place or two how Colletti was on the radio and TV in LA and talked about how he wouldn't go the prospect route that Hendry initiated. But was finally able to convince him to take Izturis.

 

This is the perfect time to take advantage of a weak NL and Hendry is really squandering this opportunity.

[Soul]

but, seriously what was expected?

 

I hate that low expectations are considered acceptable when it comes to this team. I expected very little, but got less.

 

The low expectations were generated long ago by Hendry & Baker. You can't build a junk ballclub and then expect to fleece other teams with said junk.

 

 

So it continues....

 

 

Somehow the cycle has to be broken. Can't do it with a single Maddux trade, but it's got to be done. I think much more sweeping changes are in order, starting with the firing of one Mr. Hendry, and the eating of the remaining years on his deal by the Cubs.

 

Actually I'd like to see new ownership but that apparently will never happen. Hendry, on the other hand, is destined to be fired eventually. Why not just get it over with?

[goonys evil twin]

can somebody edit the title of this thread?

[minnesotacubsfan]

In all fairness, I believe the Cubs tried the prospect route first and the Dodgers wouldn't budge. As many here have said, who could blame them?

 

 

Did Maddux force this deal? why wouldn't Hendry walk away from it if he wasn't goign to get what he wanted? why give in to Izturis when he just isn't what this club needed?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Forget Joel Guzman. If he really passed on Kemp for Izturis, I'd flip a gasket.

 

If he still qualified for BA's midseason top prospects list, he'd be around 7-10. Kid's a stud.

[jjgman21]

 

I wouldn't have given Walker away for one thing. I would have gone the "prospect" route with Maddux, provided they were the right prospects. I just don't see this trade as making a big, positive impact. Izturis is probably OK in the right spot in the right lineup, but how many times have we seen that with this outfit?

 

I've got no problem with Walker for Ceda. Walker wouldn't be back next year, anyway, and Ceda may or may not contribute in the future. This organization has developed some decent pitchers in recent years.

 

However, I can't believe Hendry did the deal for Izturis instead of a couple prospects. Izturis - whose glove is probably going to be worth three wins next year - is redundant on a team with Cedeno and Perez.

 

the problem I have with the Walker deal is suggested in my thread in the transactions forum. Ceda's future success is no more predictable right now than an early round draft pick. Walker would probably qualify as a Type A FA, if not a type B, which means the Cubs could have had two early round draft picks for him, if not one high draft pick. in other words, in a roundabout way the Cubs just traded two high draft picks for one, or just traded a high pick of their own choosing for a high draft pick of someone else's choosing.

 

if Walker accepted arbitration, I'll take his better than mediocre D (recent performance notwithstanding) and .350 OBP for another year, no problem.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

I wouldn't have given Walker away for one thing. I would have gone the "prospect" route with Maddux, provided they were the right prospects. I just don't see this trade as making a big, positive impact. Izturis is probably OK in the right spot in the right lineup, but how many times have we seen that with this outfit?

 

I've got no problem with Walker for Ceda. Walker wouldn't be back next year, anyway, and Ceda may or may not contribute in the future. This organization has developed some decent pitchers in recent years.

 

However, I can't believe Hendry did the deal for Izturis instead of a couple prospects. Izturis - whose glove is probably going to be worth three wins next year - is redundant on a team with Cedeno and Perez.

 

the problem I have with the Walker deal is suggested in my thread in the transactions forum. Ceda's future success is no more predictable right now than an early round draft pick. Walker would probably qualify as a Type A FA, if not a type B, which means the Cubs could have had two early round draft picks for him, if not one high draft pick. in other words, in a roundabout way the Cubs just traded two high draft picks for one, or just traded a high pick of their own choosing for a high draft pick of someone else's choosing.

 

if Walker accepted arbitration, I'll take his better than mediocre D (recent performance notwithstanding) and .350 OBP for another year, no problem.

 

Walker was not going to get a Type A class. I have no problem with Ceda vs. a Type B/Type C class pick.

[jjgman21]

 

I wouldn't have given Walker away for one thing. I would have gone the "prospect" route with Maddux, provided they were the right prospects. I just don't see this trade as making a big, positive impact. Izturis is probably OK in the right spot in the right lineup, but how many times have we seen that with this outfit?

 

I've got no problem with Walker for Ceda. Walker wouldn't be back next year, anyway, and Ceda may or may not contribute in the future. This organization has developed some decent pitchers in recent years.

 

However, I can't believe Hendry did the deal for Izturis instead of a couple prospects. Izturis - whose glove is probably going to be worth three wins next year - is redundant on a team with Cedeno and Perez.

 

the problem I have with the Walker deal is suggested in my thread in the transactions forum. Ceda's future success is no more predictable right now than an early round draft pick. Walker would probably qualify as a Type A FA, if not a type B, which means the Cubs could have had two early round draft picks for him, if not one high draft pick. in other words, in a roundabout way the Cubs just traded two high draft picks for one, or just traded a high pick of their own choosing for a high draft pick of someone else's choosing.

 

if Walker accepted arbitration, I'll take his better than mediocre D (recent performance notwithstanding) and .350 OBP for another year, no problem.

 

Walker was not going to get a Type A class. I have no problem with Ceda vs. a Type B/Type C class pick.

 

we'll see. if he doesn't qualify as a Type A, the only reason would be his switch to first for most of his ABs this year and Baker's use of Neifi over Walker both this year and last year.

 

again, just shooting outselves in the foot.

 

even so, I think it would be quite easy to pick a guy in the first three rounds that could put up Ceda's numbers in the Dom.L. or in AZ.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Walker was not going to get a Type A class. I have no problem with Ceda vs. a Type B/Type C class pick.

 

we'll see. if he doesn't qualify as a Type A, the only reason would be his switch to first for most of his ABs this year and Baker's use of Neifi over Walker both this year and last year.

 

again, just shooting outselves in the foot.

 

even so, I think it would be quite easy to pick a guy in the first three rounds that could put up Ceda's numbers in the Dom.L. or in AZ.

 

And his injury limited his PT, which would affect the arbitration ratings.

 

Ceda is a 19-year old throwing 99 mph with very limited secondary stuff, about what the Cubs could get out of a HS pitcher in the 3rd round area. As long as Walker doesn't become a Type A free agent, I have no problem with this trade.

[cubfan1955]

the problem I have with the Walker deal is suggested in my thread in the transactions forum. Ceda's future success is no more predictable right now than an early round draft pick. Walker would probably qualify as a Type A FA, if not a type B, which means the Cubs could have had two early round draft picks for him, if not one high draft pick. in other words, in a roundabout way the Cubs just traded two high draft picks for one, or just traded a high pick of their own choosing for a high draft pick of someone else's choosing.

 

if Walker accepted arbitration, I'll take his better than mediocre D (recent performance notwithstanding) and .350 OBP for another year, no problem.

Personally I'd rather have someone else making picks for the Cubs than the Cubs.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Walker was not going to get a Type A class. I have no problem with Ceda vs. a Type B/Type C class pick.

 

we'll see. if he doesn't qualify as a Type A, the only reason would be his switch to first for most of his ABs this year and Baker's use of Neifi over Walker both this year and last year.

 

again, just shooting outselves in the foot.

 

even so, I think it would be quite easy to pick a guy in the first three rounds that could put up Ceda's numbers in the Dom.L. or in AZ.

 

And his injury limited his PT, which would affect the arbitration ratings.

 

Ceda is a 19-year old throwing 99 mph with very limited secondary stuff, about what the Cubs could get out of a HS pitcher in the 3rd round area. As long as Walker doesn't become a Type A free agent, I have no problem with this trade.

 

Raisin, thanks for bringing this point up. I hadnt thought of that aspect of the trade but it makes me like it alot more. I agree with you that Walker is a type B FA. That to me makes this trade a pretty good one for the Cubs. Especially if next off season Hendry jumps early and signs a type A and B again. We can look back and say at least that we picked up a draft pick early.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Forget Joel Guzman. If he really passed on Kemp for Izturis, I'd flip a gasket.

 

If he still qualified for BA's midseason top prospects list, he'd be around 7-10. Kid's a stud.

 

If Guzman was a possibility, then that would have been worth the gamble. He has the character issues, but he would come cheap and if the problems persisted he could have been shipped off in some capacity.

 

But, it will be interesting to see Joel Guzman with the terrible trio in Tampa(Durham). That team might implode.

[Bruce Miles]

Couple things from above as I roast at the ballpark:

 

Yes, Tim Wilken did have signficant input. Hendry mentioned that yesterday.

 

It was Hendry, not the Dodgers, who initiated the prospect route. The Dodgers wanted none of it.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Couple things from above as I roast at the ballpark:

 

Yes, Tim Wilken did have signficant input. Hendry mentioned that yesterday.

 

It was Hendry, not the Dodgers, who initiated the prospect route. The Dodgers wanted none of it.

 

Thanks, it makes me feel somewhat better. Any indications we could have done better than Izturis though?

[gflore34]

Couple things from above as I roast at the ballpark:

 

Yes, Tim Wilken did have signficant input. Hendry mentioned that yesterday.

 

It was Hendry, not the Dodgers, who initiated the prospect route. The Dodgers wanted none of it.

 

 

I thought the same as well; it's downright ludicrous to think their top prospects were available for a 40 yr old pitcher near the end of his career.

[Banedon]

Couple things from above as I roast at the ballpark:

 

Yes, Tim Wilken did have signficant input. Hendry mentioned that yesterday.

 

It was Hendry, not the Dodgers, who initiated the prospect route. The Dodgers wanted none of it.

 

That makes a big difference in how I feel about the whole thing, even though I still don't like it.

 

It's a balmy 72 degrees here in my office Bruce...not sure what the problem is... :sunny:

[gorbs27]

Tough subject for my debut post on the board. For some reason, I have a hard time believing that the Dodgers would trade a Joel Guzman or Matt Kemp for Maddux. In fact, that would be among the dumber things the Dodgers could do IMO.

 

Ronnie, as for Guzman joining the "Terrible Trio" as you call them, one of them won't be there. B.J. Upton has been called up and will be in the lineup tonight for the Rays. The Rays also called up Ben Zobrist, and along with J.P. Howell making his debut with the Rays tonight, I just might have to make another appearance at the Trop this evening. The Rays are going to have to do something with this group, and me thinks that Elijah Dukes' days with the Rays are numbered. Clearly he is very talented. Equally clear are the issues the young man has. The Rays outfield will be crowded enough as it is, and it appears that Guzman is going to get time at 1B and 3B in Durham (I would be willing to bet he ends up playing in Tampa at 1B next season, or at the very least warranting a serious look in the Spring). Just thought I'd toss in a thought or two as I now, along with being a die-hard Cubs fan, consider myself a pretty big Rays fan. Living around Tampa for the better part of my young 23 years will do that to a kid.

 

IF the Dodgers had Guzman or something similar on the table for Maddux, then I can't see how passing that up would be wise for the Cubs. However, as I said earlier, I just can't bring myself to believe the Dodgers would part with prospects of this nature for Maddux. I'm not sure why Mr. Izturis is a Cub now (well, actually, I think most of us ARE sure why he is) and I'm not very happy with this deal. I can understand moving Maddux to a contender if he so desired, but for a guy that I'm sure a few on this board could out-produce with the bat? Just doesn't make much sense to me at this time.

 

On the Walker front, as much as I like guy, I don't have any issues with the move. You never know with young kids, and Ceda has a pretty good arm from the sounds of things. Next year doesn't look very good at the moment, but I can't really complain about the Walker deal.

[Sammy Sofa]

Welcome!

[sethuel1]

WElcome! And a quality first post, too.

 

I think my first post was a beer joke.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

WElcome! And a quality first post, too.

 

I think my first post was a beer joke.

 

Mine was probably about boogers.

[badgercub]

Tough subject for my debut post on the board. For some reason, I have a hard time believing that the Dodgers would trade a Joel Guzman or Matt Kemp for Maddux. In fact, that would be among the dumber things the Dodgers could do IMO.

 

Ronnie, as for Guzman joining the "Terrible Trio" as you call them, one of them won't be there. B.J. Upton has been called up and will be in the lineup tonight for the Rays. The Rays also called up Ben Zobrist, and along with J.P. Howell making his debut with the Rays tonight, I just might have to make another appearance at the Trop this evening. The Rays are going to have to do something with this group, and me thinks that Elijah Dukes' days with the Rays are numbered. Clearly he is very talented. Equally clear are the issues the young man has. The Rays outfield will be crowded enough as it is, and it appears that Guzman is going to get time at 1B and 3B in Durham (I would be willing to bet he ends up playing in Tampa at 1B next season, or at the very least warranting a serious look in the Spring). Just thought I'd toss in a thought or two as I now, along with being a die-hard Cubs fan, consider myself a pretty big Rays fan. Living around Tampa for the better part of my young 23 years will do that to a kid.

 

IF the Dodgers had Guzman or something similar on the table for Maddux, then I can't see how passing that up would be wise for the Cubs. However, as I said earlier, I just can't bring myself to believe the Dodgers would part with prospects of this nature for Maddux. I'm not sure why Mr. Izturis is a Cub now (well, actually, I think most of us ARE sure why he is) and I'm not very happy with this deal. I can understand moving Maddux to a contender if he so desired, but for a guy that I'm sure a few on this board could out-produce with the bat? Just doesn't make much sense to me at this time.

 

On the Walker front, as much as I like guy, I don't have any issues with the move. You never know with young kids, and Ceda has a pretty good arm from the sounds of things. Next year doesn't look very good at the moment, but I can't really complain about the Walker deal.

 

Nice post, couldn't agree more. Hendry has taken a team that showed some promise in 2003 and totally destroyed any chance they have of competing in the near future. I fear things are going to get worse before they get better. We haven't hit bottom yet.

[gorbs27]

Thanks for the welcomes :) . Any time I can talk Cubs, or baseball in general, is a good time. I've been a huge fan of the boards here for a long time, and I figured now would be a good time to jump in.

 

Hopefully I'll be back home in DeKalb in the very near future. Can't wait to get OUT of Florida. How weird is that?

[thedaymen]

Can't wait to get OUT of Florida. How weird is that?

 

I dunno...ask Juan Pierre or Carlos Delgado.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

WElcome! And a quality first post, too.

 

I think my first post was a beer joke.

 

Mine was, shockingly, about UCLA sports.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Forget Joel Guzman. If he really passed on Kemp for Izturis, I'd flip a gasket.

 

If he still qualified for BA's midseason top prospects list, he'd be around 7-10. Kid's a stud.

 

If Guzman was a possibility, then that would have been worth the gamble. He has the character issues, but he would come cheap and if the problems persisted he could have been shipped off in some capacity.

 

But, it will be interesting to see Joel Guzman with the terrible trio in Tampa(Durham). That team might implode.

 

My point just being that if it was Kemp or Guzman, Kemp is a greater prospect. Guzman too would have been a great pick up and I would be pissed that Hendry passed on him, just not as upset as Kemp.

 

I also don't think Guzman's "character issues" are anywhere near as bad as those of Delmon Young, BJ Upton or Elijiah Dukes. Kid was just pissed off he got demoted to AAA and *might* have a questionable work ethic. The first part is very understandable.

 

As I sit, I'm pissed the Cubs couldn't get Delwyn Young or Greg Miller, and instead got Izturis.