NICE BLURB IN THE SUNTIMES TODAY...

[C.C.]

*Torii Hunter, Shannon Stewart and Lew Ford are absent from the Twins outfield because of injuries. In case anyone in the Cubs organization might wonder how a team overcomes adversity.

 

 

Take that Dusty!

[Shawon12]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

[C.C.]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Regardless, you have to marvel at the run they had with a missing outfield.

[Caryatid]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Prior and Wood aren't Santana and Liriano.

[TheDude]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Prior and Wood aren't Santana and Liriano.

 

And none of those three outfielders is Lee or Prior either. There is not a relevent comparison here and the paper shouldn't bother trying.

[Tracer Bullet]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Prior and Wood aren't Santana and Liriano.

 

Hunter, Ford, and Sterwart aren't exactly Murderer's Row.

[NCCubFan]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Prior and Wood aren't Santana and Liriano.

At their best they're close.

[badgercub]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

If you are referring to Prior and Wood being injured, that falls on JH for not preparing for the inevitable. And also on Dusty for his mismanagement of a not so good staff also.

[badgercub]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Prior and Wood aren't Santana and Liriano.

 

Hunter, Ford, and Sterwart aren't exactly Murderer's Row.

 

What about the Yankees and all of their injuries or the Dodgers and all of the injuries they have dealt with this year? There are comparisons to be made about how teams have dealt with injuries and the Cubs, Jim Hendry in particular constructed a roster that was ill prepared to handle any kind of injuries. The Cubs had a lack of starting pitching depth and a horrible bench add to that few if any prospects in the minors leagues that might be able to come in and give a hand (position players).

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Prior and Wood aren't Santana and Liriano.

 

Hunter, Ford, and Sterwart aren't exactly Murderer's Row.

 

What about the Yankees and all of their injuries or the Dodgers and all of the injuries they have dealt with this year? There are comparisons to be made about how teams have dealt with injuries and the Cubs, Jim Hendry in particular constructed a roster that was ill prepared to handle any kind of injuries. The Cubs had a lack of starting pitching depth and a horrible bench add to that few if any prospects in the minors leagues that might be able to come in and give a hand (position players).

 

Bingo, it's not just the Twins that overcome injuries.

[RynoRules]

My major issue with Dusty is that he is supposed to be a great motivator and manager of the clubhouse, yet his Cubsteams have folded every time they face adversity. That says a lot about him, IMO.

[abuck1220]

who cares whether those players are comparable to the guys the cubs have lost? even if the cubs had an entirely healthy team (which, of course, never happens), they'd still be below .500, which is pathetic.

 

think about how sad that is...a completely healthy team with a 95 mil payroll would likely be under .500.

[CubColtPacer]

who cares whether those players are comparable to the guys the cubs have lost? even if the cubs had an entirely healthy team (which, of course, never happens), they'd still be below .500, which is pathetic.

 

think about how sad that is...a completely healthy team with a 95 mil payroll would likely be under .500.

 

I sincerely doubt that. We were playing good baseball in April before Lee went down, and we didn't have Prior and Wood then. I think if everybody had been healthy, we'd been in the race. If the more likely option of just Prior and Wood on the DL, then we'd be around .500 right now.

[goonys evil twin]

who cares whether those players are comparable to the guys the cubs have lost? even if the cubs had an entirely healthy team (which, of course, never happens), they'd still be below .500, which is pathetic.

 

think about how sad that is...a completely healthy team with a 95 mil payroll would likely be under .500.

 

I sincerely doubt that. We were playing good baseball in April before Lee went down, and we didn't have Prior and Wood then. I think if everybody had been healthy, we'd been in the race. If the more likely option of just Prior and Wood on the DL, then we'd be around .500 right now.

 

Look what happened to last year's team with a fully healthy Lee having a career year and Prior healthy for most of the season.

 

The Sun Times has an excellent point. Injuries can make it difficult to be a 90+ win team (even though teams do it every year), but they are not an excuse to be a 20 games under .500 team.

[nikao]

I realize that Stewart and Hunter aren't quite Lee caliber players, but they are/were two pretty important pieces of the Twins team. Stewart is their leadoff man and Hunter's really the face of the franchise and at least some source of power besides Morneau. In the last few weeks their top four outfielders were either hobbling or on the DL--if that happened to the Cubs I think everyone would recognize that as a tough situation. That the Twins have been able to be this hot during that stretch is nothing short of amazing to me. It's the kind of thing that's kept me paying more attention to them than the Cubs at this point--at least its a franchise that has a resevoir of young talent and has developed and coached it well.

 

Yes--other teams get through injuries. And injuries to either Santana or Liriano would be more devastating (though Garza at AAA is having an amazing minor league season). But the Twins' run is still an accomplishment.

[CubColtPacer]

who cares whether those players are comparable to the guys the cubs have lost? even if the cubs had an entirely healthy team (which, of course, never happens), they'd still be below .500, which is pathetic.

 

think about how sad that is...a completely healthy team with a 95 mil payroll would likely be under .500.

 

I sincerely doubt that. We were playing good baseball in April before Lee went down, and we didn't have Prior and Wood then. I think if everybody had been healthy, we'd been in the race. If the more likely option of just Prior and Wood on the DL, then we'd be around .500 right now.

 

Look what happened to last year's team with a fully healthy Lee having a career year and Prior healthy for most of the season.

 

The Sun Times has an excellent point. Injuries can make it difficult to be a 90+ win team (even though teams do it every year), but they are not an excuse to be a 20 games under .500 team.

 

Yup-last year is actually what I am partly basing it on. The other players are better then last year-Pierre being so much better then Patterson of last year, Jones being an upgrade over Burnitz, and so on. We finished 4 under last year..if we had Prior this year, I think we would be 4 or 5 over right now, if both, 8-10 over.

[goonys evil twin]

Yup-last year is actually what I am partly basing it on. The other players are better then last year-Pierre being so much better then Patterson of last year, Jones being an upgrade over Burnitz, and so on. We finished 4 under last year..if we had Prior this year, I think we would be 4 or 5 over right now, if both, 8-10 over.

 

Pierre was worse than Patterson of last year most of this season. And Jones is barely better than Burnitz, barely.

 

Woulda coulda shoulda. This team sucks, it was constructed poorly and it's managed poorly.

[abuck1220]

who cares whether those players are comparable to the guys the cubs have lost? even if the cubs had an entirely healthy team (which, of course, never happens), they'd still be below .500, which is pathetic.

 

think about how sad that is...a completely healthy team with a 95 mil payroll would likely be under .500.

 

I sincerely doubt that. We were playing good baseball in April before Lee went down, and we didn't have Prior and Wood then. I think if everybody had been healthy, we'd been in the race. If the more likely option of just Prior and Wood on the DL, then we'd be around .500 right now.

 

there is no way one guy makes up 22 games in the win column, which is essentially what you're saying would happen if just wood and prior were on the DL.

[CubColtPacer]

Yup-last year is actually what I am partly basing it on. The other players are better then last year-Pierre being so much better then Patterson of last year, Jones being an upgrade over Burnitz, and so on. We finished 4 under last year..if we had Prior this year, I think we would be 4 or 5 over right now, if both, 8-10 over.

 

Pierre was worse than Patterson of last year most of this season. And Jones is barely better than Burnitz, barely.

 

Woulda coulda shoulda. This team sucks, it was constructed poorly and it's managed poorly.

 

Patterson last year: .215/.254/.348

Pierre this year by month: April: .258/.289/.333

May: .226/.267.290

June: .283/.352/.381

July: .362/.395/.495

 

Seems to me the only month you can really say that Pierre was worse then Patterson was May, and he has been unbelievably better for almost half of the season now.

 

Jones and Burnitz

Burnitz last year: .258/.322/.435

Jones: .286/.313/.497

 

I will give you that Jones is only a little better then Burnitz-even though his OPS is over 50 points higher. Pierre though has definitely been better then Patterson. The bullpen is significantly better than last year. I'm not arguing this team is poorly constructed-but when completely healthy, this team is better than last years team.

[CubColtPacer]

who cares whether those players are comparable to the guys the cubs have lost? even if the cubs had an entirely healthy team (which, of course, never happens), they'd still be below .500, which is pathetic.

 

think about how sad that is...a completely healthy team with a 95 mil payroll would likely be under .500.

 

I sincerely doubt that. We were playing good baseball in April before Lee went down, and we didn't have Prior and Wood then. I think if everybody had been healthy, we'd been in the race. If the more likely option of just Prior and Wood on the DL, then we'd be around .500 right now.

 

there is no way one guy makes up 22 games in the win column, which is essentially what you're saying would happen if just wood and prior were on the DL.

 

Actually, you're right on that. I didn't realize how much of the problems this year have come from our pitching from looking at the stats. For example, I didn't realize that if Jerome Williams and Glendon Rusch of 2005 were on this squad, they would be our #2 and #3 starters-scary thought huh? So, we'd need at least one of Prior or Wood to make up some of the difference beause the pitching has been terrible as well outside of Z.

[Backtobanks]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Prior and Wood aren't Santana and Liriano.

At their best they're close.

 

At their best, they were close.

[Tracer Bullet]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Prior and Wood aren't Santana and Liriano.

 

Hunter, Ford, and Sterwart aren't exactly Murderer's Row.

 

What about the Yankees and all of their injuries or the Dodgers and all of the injuries they have dealt with this year? There are comparisons to be made about how teams have dealt with injuries and the Cubs, Jim Hendry in particular constructed a roster that was ill prepared to handle any kind of injuries. The Cubs had a lack of starting pitching depth and a horrible bench add to that few if any prospects in the minors leagues that might be able to come in and give a hand (position players).

 

Bingo, it's not just the Twins that overcome injuries.

 

First, I'm just saying the Twins aren't a very good example of a team that has overcome key injuries. The Twins most important players (in no particular order) are Santana, Liriano, Nathan, Mauer, and Morneau. The production they lost from their OF was easier to replace w/ rookies and/or average bench players.

 

I don't particularly like the Yankees example either. Matsui & Sheff weren't their top hitters this year (Giambi, Jeter, & ARod this year). And actually, they each have an OPS for the year near .800, which isn't too exciting for a corner OF (though they both had solid/great OBP). I don't know exactly how much more the Yankees payroll is than the Cubs, but it's sufficiently greater than they currently have 5 very expensive guys who at some point in the last 3 years have had an OPS of .900 or greater (that's a lie - Jeter is .898, but the other 4 were over .900 for at least one of the last 3 years). Off the top of my head, I can't think of another team where that's true (though there may be 1-2).

 

But I'm not trying to defend JH or Baker. I think they are each to blame for this miserable collection of a team. I don't fault JH so much for not builiding a team that could withstand the loss of its best hitter, I fault him for constructing a team with only 2 hitters you can count on to clear .900 OPS (Barrett's a nice surprise this year, but no one saw that coming) and a team with so few guys that have OBP above league average. And I fault Dusty for not playing the guys that give us the best chance to win and not getting much out of the team generally (bad fundamentals, not hustling, not playing to potential, generally poor play).

[goonys evil twin]

First, I'm just saying the Twins aren't a very good example of a team that has overcome key injuries. The Twins most important players (in no particular order) are Santana, Liriano, Nathan, Mauer, and Morneau. The production they lost from their OF was easier to replace w/ rookies and/or average bench players..

 

Isn't that the case then of being prepared for injuries by constantly developing and bringing up young players that are capable of contributing? The Cubs chose not to develop position players. Their plan all along was to put almost 100% of their effort into building the farm through arms, even though young pitchers are the least dependable players in the game.

[wastra]

First, I'm just saying the Twins aren't a very good example of a team that has overcome key injuries. The Twins most important players (in no particular order) are Santana, Liriano, Nathan, Mauer, and Morneau. The production they lost from their OF was easier to replace w/ rookies and/or average bench players..

 

Isn't that the case then of being prepared for injuries by constantly developing and bringing up young players that are capable of contributing? The Cubs chose not to develop position players. Their plan all along was to put almost 100% of their effort into building the farm through arms, even though young pitchers are the least dependable players in the game.

 

The difference between the Twins ability to overcome injury and ours is that we only have 2-4 real difference makers on the team, and so we can hardly afford to lose ANY of them, whilst the Twins may not have a 2005 Derrek Lee on their offense, they are better balanced top-to-bottom. Hendry built this entire $95million roster around basically 5 players..Lee, Aram,Prior, Wood, and Zambrano. Everyone else is basically support staff, and are support staff caliber journeymen, for the most part, whose CEILING is at best support level.

 

We may have lost 2 of our top 3 pitchers this year, which the Twins didn't, but we also only backed them up with rusch and bunch of guys projected to be in AA or AAA this year, after knowing they were likely injury risks.

 

Gooney's dead-on here. Our problems stem from a miserably constructed roster. How anyone can look up and down our roster and say "Yeah, that's worth $95 million" is beyond me...because we're 20 games under .500, and the NL that we're losing to is noticeably worse than last year as a whole.

[soccer10k]

Not to defend the Cubs or make comparisons, but if the Twins's lost Santana and Lariano, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they're at.

 

Prior and Wood aren't Santana and Liriano.

 

Hunter, Ford, and Sterwart aren't exactly Murderer's Row.

 

What about the Yankees and all of their injuries or the Dodgers and all of the injuries they have dealt with this year? There are comparisons to be made about how teams have dealt with injuries and the Cubs, Jim Hendry in particular constructed a roster that was ill prepared to handle any kind of injuries. The Cubs had a lack of starting pitching depth and a horrible bench add to that few if any prospects in the minors leagues that might be able to come in and give a hand (position players).

 

The Dodgers and their 1-13 record since the All Star Break beg to differ on how well they have dealt with injuries.