Is Cedeno truly the answer at SS?

[muskie]

The question for me is whether we can afford to have both Cedeno and Murton in the lineup at the same time. I like both guys, but right now they aren't giving us enough production to keep both. I'd like to see Murton be a top sub next year.

 

Right now we have nothing to play for. We might as well designate the team that is playing in Wrigley as the development league team.

 

Next year, both of them will be older and more experienced, and we may well want them both in the lineup. We won't know that yet, though, until we see what they can do next season.

 

Of course if anyone wants one or both of them for some player or players which would improve us (Lord knows, an offer of almost anything would be an improvement for, or at least not worsen, this team) they are most certainly tradeable.

[imb]

Nonetheless, Sammy became a full fear hitter, when he finally learn how to hit with bases loaded.

 

I just wanted to take a second to laugh hysterically.

[Shavo]

They probably need more of a big time player in there so ... Prior, Cedeno, Dempster for Tejada and Markakis.

 

Markakis is the best position prospect the Orioles have had in years. You're trashing Cedeno and he'd clearly be a step down from Tejada. Prior hasn't put together a non-freak injury season since 2003. Dempster is good, but not nearly good enough to tie together that package.

 

Again, why the heck would the Orioles do that trade?

 

Prior is still Mark Prior. His upside is still huge. Under Mazzone, he could flourish. I didnt trash Cedeno, his current line is just brutal. Dempster gives them a good set up man to go with Ray. Its a deal they could consider.

 

How is Markakis their best position prospect in years? He's got good patience but its not like hes a cant miss guy. If anything that only speaks to how bad the O's farm is. Not saying the deal could happen, just a suggestion.

[Outshined_One]

Prior is still Mark Prior. His upside is still huge. Under Mazzone, he could flourish. I didnt trash Cedeno, his current line is just brutal. Dempster gives them a good set up man to go with Ray. Its a deal they could consider.

 

How is Markakis their best position prospect in years? He's got good patience but its not like hes a cant miss guy. If anything that only speaks to how bad the O's farm is. Not saying the deal could happen, just a suggestion.

 

Here's the thing. In the offseason, everyone was talking about Prior for Tejada (and then later guys like Bedard, Cabrera, Cedeno, and so on were thrown into the mix). This was back when we thought Prior was going to come into the season fully healthy and ready to go. Unfortunately, since then, he's only hurt his value. His upside is huge, but so is Rick Ankiel's. That's not to say Prior is another Ankiel, but a guy's ceiling can only make his value go so far.

 

Cedeno has also hurt his value, although as a rookie, he will get a free pass for now as he adjusts. Dempster is still a solid bullpen guy, but he's not at the same level as some of the elite closers over the past few years (Gagne, Rivera, etc).

 

I simply have a hard time imagining why the Orioles would want to take that package in exchange for Tejada and Markakis. Tejada is still one of the best shortstops in all of base and is having a good year at the plate. Markakis has been their top prospect over the past two years. With regards to BA's Top 100 Prospects list, he was #90 in 2004, #65 in 2005, and #21 in 2006.

 

Yes, they have had a bad farm system in recent history. That takes nothing away from the fact that he is one of the top young guys in baseball. Markakis is young, cheap, talented, and will eventually find his power stroke. In other words, it's going to take a lot to pry him away from the Orioles.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

First. Full. Season.

 

23. Years. Old.

[cubfan1955]

Ronny needs help now and he isn't going to get it at the Baker/Clines/Matthews horror show. I'm not ready to give up on him either but some good instruction would sure be nice about now.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Ronny needs help now and he isn't going to get it at the Baker/Clines/Matthews horror show. I'm not ready to give up on him either but some good instruction would sure be nice about now.

 

Spier is the IF coach. As the article in the Tribune today pointed out he is a "Hendry" guy. So lumping him in with the Baker boys isnt exactly fair.

 

He is in all real respects a rookie folks. Ignore the arbitrary numbers that are established for ROY awards. This is his first year in everyday duty. It is a long grind, harder than you think. He is in some respects getting OJT as much anything else. He will hit well for a SS when all is said and done. Comparing him to ARod or Tejada isnt fair considering how long they have been playing compared to him. If you want to do an apples to apples comparison look at them through the first full everyday season they played. Even then it wont be in all things equal because I dont think a train wreck of a season the Cubs are having is condusive to playing better.

 

Edited for a typo.

[cubfan1955]

Ronny needs help now and he isn't going to get it at the Baker/Clines/Matthews horror show. I'm not ready to give up on him either but some good instruction would sure be nice about now.

 

Spier is the IF coach. As the article in the Tribune today pointed out he is a "Hendry" guy. So lumping him in with the Baker boys isnt exactly fair.

 

He is in all real respects a rookie folks. Ignore the arbitrary numbers that are established for ROY awards. This is his first year in everyday duty. It is a long grind, harder than you think. He is in some respects getting OJT as much anything else. He will hit well for a SS when all is said and done. Comparing him to ARod or Tejada isnt fair considering how long they have been playing compared to him. If you want to do an apples to apples comparison look at them through the first full everyday season they played. Even then it wont be in all things equal because I dont think a train wreck of a season the Cubs are having is condusive to playing better.

 

Edited for a typo.

I was thinking more along the line of some hitting instruction which I'm quite sure Dusty and Clines wouldn't allow Speier to step in and take over. And I don't think anyone is comparing him to Arod or Tejada. He's struggling and IMO he needs some help. He looks absolutely lost at the plate right now. Like Patterson did last year.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Reread the first couple of posts. Tejada <<< Cedeno.

 

I just get so tired of folks on this board scream because the kids dont get a chance, in place of overpaid veterans, then as soon as the kids do get a chance and make a mistake the board is flooded with "this kid stinks" trade him for this overpriced veteran! It makes me feel like I am on a board with Dusty and Darren Baker at times. :roll:

[Guest]

Reread the first couple of posts. Tejada

 

I just get so tired of folks on this board scream because the kids dont get a chance, in place of overpaid veterans, then as soon as the kids do get a chance and make a mistake the board is flooded with "this kid stinks" trade him for this overpriced veteran! It makes me feel like I am on a board with Dusty and Darren Baker at times. :roll:

It's funny to read this kind of thing.

 

There's over 3000 registered members here at NSBB. Opinions vary amongst those people on nearly every subject, including young players. Naturally, when looking at the entire board, you'll see conflicting opinions.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Reread the first couple of posts. Tejada <<< Cedeno.

 

I just get so tired of folks on this board scream because the kids dont get a chance, in place of overpaid veterans, then as soon as the kids do get a chance and make a mistake the board is flooded with "this kid stinks" trade him for this overpriced veteran! It makes me feel like I am on a board with Dusty and Darren Baker at times. :roll:

It's funny to read this kind of thing.

 

There's over 3000 registered members here at NSBB. Opinions vary amongst those people on nearly every subject, including young players. Naturally, when looking at the entire board, you'll see conflicting opinions.

 

Tim,

 

I am glad I could give you a laugh today.

 

I really like the diversity of opinion on the board. It sometimes gives me a great way to look at something from a much different light. Sometimes it just makes me shake my head. I am sure I do the same to quite a few folks along the way.

[Shavo]

I think people aren't realising that I'm not trashing Cedeno. He is our best current option at SS, yes. But are there better options out there? I think so. His play right now is pretty brutal.

[cubfan1955]

Reread the first couple of posts. Tejada <<< Cedeno.

 

I just get so tired of folks on this board scream because the kids dont get a chance, in place of overpaid veterans, then as soon as the kids do get a chance and make a mistake the board is flooded with "this kid stinks" trade him for this overpriced veteran! It makes me feel like I am on a board with Dusty and Darren Baker at times. :roll:

I like Ronny and think he will be okay but if Baltimore wanted to send me Tejada I'd do it. Tejada is a superstar of the game. But seriously, I doubt Baltimore wants to send him here...especially for the players mentioned earlier.

 

Does that mean I want to DFA Cedeno. Of course not. What I really want is for Baker and the entire coaching staff gone and start anew and get Cedeno some real help.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think people aren't realising that I'm not trashing Cedeno. He is our best current option at SS, yes. But are there better options out there? I think so. His play right now is pretty brutal.

 

Obviously, but it becomes a matter of resources. While Cedeno isn't going to remind anyone of Ernie Banks, he does have a place as a cost effective solution with potential for improvement. Sure we could go and trade for Tejada, but wouldn't it be better to focus those efforts towards a position where such an option isn't available in our system(aka corner OF)?

 

Also, moving Cedeno to 2B wouldn't be a very good solution. His strengths(fielding) have less of an impact, and his weaknesses(offense) are at a position where more is expected of that trait.

[Shavo]

I think people aren't realising that I'm not trashing Cedeno. He is our best current option at SS, yes. But are there better options out there? I think so. His play right now is pretty brutal.

 

Obviously, but it becomes a matter of resources. While Cedeno isn't going to remind anyone of Ernie Banks, he does have a place as a cost effective solution with potential for improvement. Sure we could go and trade for Tejada, but wouldn't it be better to focus those efforts towards a position where such an option isn't available in our system(aka corner OF)?

 

Also, moving Cedeno to 2B wouldn't be a very good solution. His strengths(fielding) have less of an impact, and his weaknesses(offense) are at a position where more is expected of that trait.

 

I'm still a big fan of Murton. He should be the everyday LF. CF and SS/2B are the positions I look for big bats at. I'm looking at Abreu/Tejada.

[NCCubFan]

We need to remember that Cedeno is essentially a rookie. He's going to have his ups and downs, just like Murton. The question for me is whether we can afford to have both Cedeno and Murton in the lineup at the same time. I like both guys, but right now they aren't giving us enough production to keep both. I'd like to see Murton be a top sub next year.

If the Cubs were in contention, I think that would be a legitimate issue. Since they're not, however, I feel that they can't afford NOT to have them both in the lineup. They need to get as much playing time as possible this year so they can improve enough to be solid contributors next year, when they'd BETTER be contenders.

[Soul]

I just question what Cedeno is really "learning" with Dusty & crew at the helm.

 

He's clearly regressed since the beginning of the year. There's no chance he's going to come out of it under Dusty.

 

So, are we destroying the kid? It's hard to argue against it. Playing time can either provide the opportunity to improve, or just allow bad habits to set in so deeply they can never be overcome. Have a look at Cedeno. What do you all think is happening right now? I'd have to say the latter.

[cubfan1955]

I just question what Cedeno is really "learning" with Dusty & crew at the helm.

 

He's clearly regressed since the beginning of the year. There's no chance he's going to come out of it under Dusty.

 

So, are we destroying the kid? It's hard to argue against it. Playing time can either provide the opportunity to improve, or just allow bad habits to set in so deeply they can never be overcome. Have a look at Cedeno. What do you all think is happening right now? I'd have to say the latter.

Definitely the latter. He's coming down with coreypattersonitis.

[Elrhino]

I don't think you can say he clearly regressed from last year, considering how small his sample from last year was. He never statistically projected to be a good offensive MLB player, and on the scouting side he's never been looked upon as a good prospect.

 

Yes, some teams can get away with having all defense and no offense from the SS position, but those teams usually get production from their traditional positions, like LF, which the Cubs do not.

[thedaymen]

He looks absolutely lost at the plate right now. Like Patterson did last year.

 

Hmmmm.